Curse

Dragannia · Apr 01, 2006, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Personally I can't stand Surging, simply because it's so incredibly dull. A true Mesmer should work on skill shutdown, not energy denial, because I've found, through my experiences in TA, E-Denial can be anticipated and easily countered. Which is why I favour Diversion builds much more than E-Denial.

Valkyries · Apr 02, 2006, 08:10 AM // 08:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragannia

Personally I can't stand Surging, simply because it's so incredibly dull. A true Mesmer should work on skill shutdown, not energy denial, because I've found, through my experiences in TA, E-Denial can be anticipated and easily countered. Which is why I favour Diversion builds much more than E-Denial.

Perhaps in TA this holds true.

However, in GVG and HA, from everything I have seen people are using and requesting ESurge builds. Its hard to deal with if you are a Monk or any spell caster for that matter. Apart from that, there is no reason why you cannot take diversion with you if you are using ESurge. I definitely plan to.

Here is something I was tinkering around with:

ESurge PVP
Fast Casting: 10 +1 Minor
Domination Magic: 16 - Superior (+3)
Illusion Magic: 0
Inspiration Magic: 8 +1 Minor

Energy Surge {E}
Energy Burn
Diversion
Drain Enchantment
Res Signet

3 Spot open, Here is what I have in consideration:
Signet of Weariness
Mind Wrack(pretty sure this will make it in)
Shatter Enchantment
Shame
Power Leak

I think this is what it will end up being:
Energy Surge {E}
Energy Burn
Diversion
Drain Enchantment
Mind Wrack
Power Leak
Shatter Enchantment
Res Signet

Look any good? Not sure about Energy Management issues... so maybe Shatter Enchant is better served as something else, just seems so good to use. :P

rii · Apr 02, 2006, 09:00 AM // 09:00

One of the advantages of the build i posted above is its heavy use of signets. In a surge enviroment, mesmers often degrade into simply surging each other, which seems ultimately pointless but whatever ^. The signet use makes you fairly solid against it with some basic focus swapping (Mesmers dont have it nearly as bad as monks in this situation).

As for your build... all those skills are good so i say go for it. Shatter is energy heavy... but nevertheless good. Best thing to do it run it a few times and see if you get good use out of all your skills.

Valkyries · Apr 02, 2006, 09:10 AM // 09:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by rii

One of the advantages of the build i posted above is its heavy use of signets. In a surge enviroment, mesmers often degrade into simply surging each other, which seems ultimately pointless but whatever ^. The signet use makes you fairly solid against it with some basic focus swapping (Mesmers dont have it nearly as bad as monks in this situation).

As for your build... all those skills are good so i say go for it. Shatter is energy heavy... but nevertheless good. Best thing to do it run it a few times and see if you get good use out of all your skills.

Thanks Rii,

So maybe it might be in my best interest to swap out the Shatter for the Signet?

The recharge time is "only" 30 seconds, which really isn't all that bad to be honest. It could be a lot worse, and I could cast that almost right away for a quick loss, then keep going with my Energy skills until it recharges.

So I think thats what I may end up doing

I dont have much energy management here at all (only Drain Enchant and that'll only net me approx 8 energy) so the Shatter maybe too much for me. I guess I kinda knew this it just makes more sense when someone else says it

Valkyries · Apr 02, 2006, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Another thing I was thinking about while looking through some skills.

Has anyone ever tried Serpants Quickness for this type of build? Or is it a complete waste of a slot? I thought I heard someone mention a top teir guild was running this on a similar build so I thought I would see what it was like. Checked the skill and definitely makes sense, although the only downfall is where you are squishy you may get to that below 50% health very fast. Any thoughts?

One thing to note, I think this should be placed in a build running Shame/Guilt as their Energy management. Might not have a place in my particular build but I think its worth considering.

Dragannia · Apr 02, 2006, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valkyries

Another thing I was thinking about while looking through some skills.

Has anyone ever tried Serpants Quickness for this type of build? Or is it a complete waste of a slot? I thought I heard someone mention a top teir guild was running this on a similar build so I thought I would see what it was like. Checked the skill and definitely makes sense, although the only downfall is where you are squishy you may get to that below 50% health very fast. Any thoughts?

One thing to note, I think this should be placed in a build running Shame/Guilt as their Energy management. Might not have a place in my particular build but I think its worth considering.

Shame/Guild (usually one or the other) is farily standard in Energy Denial. Also, Serpant's Quickness works, though I think most people use Mantra of Recovery if they go for a skill which shortens recharge times.

Vio Sera · Apr 02, 2006, 10:58 PM // 22:58

i really like this build, please post what you end up going with. i am very curious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valkyries

Perhaps in TA this holds true.

However, in GVG and HA, from everything I have seen people are using and requesting ESurge builds. Its hard to deal with if you are a Monk or any spell caster for that matter. Apart from that, there is no reason why you cannot take diversion with you if you are using ESurge. I definitely plan to.

Here is something I was tinkering around with:

ESurge PVP
Fast Casting: 10 +1 Minor
Domination Magic: 16 - Superior (+3)
Illusion Magic: 0
Inspiration Magic: 8 +1 Minor

Energy Surge {E}
Energy Burn
Diversion
Drain Enchantment
Res Signet

3 Spot open, Here is what I have in consideration:
Signet of Weariness
Mind Wrack(pretty sure this will make it in)
Shatter Enchantment
Shame
Power Leak

I think this is what it will end up being:
Energy Surge {E}
Energy Burn
Diversion
Drain Enchantment
Mind Wrack
Power Leak
Shatter Enchantment
Res Signet

Look any good? Not sure about Energy Management issues... so maybe Shatter Enchant is better served as something else, just seems so good to use. :P

Valkyries · Apr 03, 2006, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Well I ran this tonight with some decent results

Here is what I used:

Energy Surge {E}
Energy Burn
Diversion
Drain Enchantment
Mind Wrack
Signet of Weariness
Blackout (at a few team members request)
Res Signet

Ill go through each individually with a bit of thoughts.

Energy Surge {E}
Obviously the staple to the build, works quite well and deals a nice bit of damage

Energy Burn
Awesome, similar to the Surge only doens't have the AoE Effect. I can live with that seeing it isn't Elite

Diversion
Quite strong, however it may not fit this deck type. I feel as if Im missing a bit in the focus area, so I think this MAY be swapped out. Time will tell

Drain Enchantment
Very good energy management. Reasonably happy with it.

Mind Wrack
Very nice skill. Can spam (sorta), cheap, good cover and does decent damage.

Signet of Weariness
This I am really not sure about. On one hand, its free and recharge I didn't find bad at all... that is the plus side. On the other side of things, it doesn't do any damage which I kind of missed. I was hoping to finish someone off and waiting for my skills to recharge except this. Luckily with Mind Wrack I could hit this and wrack them and do the damage I want. still, results aren't too clear with it. I think Ill have to give it another try.

Blackout
Some people in my group wanted me to run this so I did. Honestly it worked out pretty good. Would Blackout the monks for 7 seconds and they would spike them to kill them off. The worst about this is obviously its a touch spell. So its hard to get close and Warriors like to mash you when you get close. So I dont think this will stay in, but it was fun to play with.

Overall, to be honest this build was neat and all but I dont think it was the "Cats meow" that everyone makes it out to be. Sure, it was frustrating on Monks for me to make them have no energy but you know.. they still got their spells off. Even if it was just reversal of Fortune and some focus swapping for a heal. They managed to get around my tactics. I admit, Im no expert in this build given Im new to it but it really isn't extremely hard to play neither. just have to keep your energy up and not spam too much to run out of energy/recharge time (which I did the first few times then learnt from it).

So Im not sure what this build is lacking... Obviously the Diverson, and Blackout can be replaced. Possibly for more energy management (Any ideas?) Thing is, Im still not really convinced that this build is really the best and all a Mesmer can be.

That being said, I was watching some guilds battle in Observer mode and saw a bunch of Me/E builds running some disruption, Glyph and Obs Flame for a spike damage build. Anyone ever see this? Im a bit curious on how it looks on paper and if its viable at all. They did very well when they played, so could have been somewhat luck or could be well playing Im not too sure.

Anyways wanted to give some feedback. Comments??

rii · Apr 04, 2006, 07:41 AM // 07:41

Energy denial isnt meant to be the end all 'now your pooned' style mechanism. Any monk worth their wand will focus switch, all you can do is stagger your burns and so on (dont chain them all at once), or alternatively (if you have high FC) cast when they cast (since their focus energy will be open for grabs then). Its more about pressure, and occasionnally getting lucky and hitting their reserves when you predict a cast or whatever. As for the times in between... thats what blackout is for. Blackout is basically one of the best skills for a support caster... if you happen to have two mesmers (i.e. for their two monk backline) it should be gg to the target every time you spike... adrenal or not.

Edit: That me/e guild you saw might be rus corp. They are one of the best spike guilds i think, and the variant i saw them with was really nice. It was 5 me/e
Glyph of energy [e]
Obsidian Flame
Ward against foes
power drain
drain enchantment
resurrection signet
hex breaker
stone daggers

1 me/mo
energy burn
pp/sd... some other stuff
probably martyr [e]

2 monks.

It was really quite good.... 5 x ward against foes meant they lathered over major fighting points... resulting in cripple for a large amount of frustrated warriors. The spike was absolutely perfect.... as obs. flame generally is/should be. Then... the disruption from all the drains did enough to fill the gap between spikes. I saw them vs. WM and they had them at 60% dp within about 10minutes. They lost however.... WM split and they had a dropper. Impressive stuff though.

Valkyries · Apr 04, 2006, 09:19 AM // 09:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by rii

Energy denial isnt meant to be the end all 'now your pooned' style mechanism. Any monk worth their wand will focus switch, all you can do is stagger your burns and so on (dont chain them all at once), or alternatively (if you have high FC) cast when they cast (since their focus energy will be open for grabs then). Its more about pressure, and occasionnally getting lucky and hitting their reserves when you predict a cast or whatever. As for the times in between... thats what blackout is for. Blackout is basically one of the best skills for a support caster... if you happen to have two mesmers (i.e. for their two monk backline) it should be gg to the target every time you spike... adrenal or not.

Edit: That me/e guild you saw might be rus corp. They are one of the best spike guilds i think, and the variant i saw them with was really nice. It was 5 me/e
Glyph of energy [e]
Obsidian Flame
Ward against foes
power drain
drain enchantment
resurrection signet
hex breaker
stone daggers

1 me/mo
energy burn
pp/sd... some other stuff
probably martyr [e]

2 monks.

It was really quite good.... 5 x ward against foes meant they lathered over major fighting points... resulting in cripple for a large amount of frustrated warriors. The spike was absolutely perfect.... as obs. flame generally is/should be. Then... the disruption from all the drains did enough to fill the gap between spikes. I saw them vs. WM and they had them at 60% dp within about 10minutes. They lost however.... WM split and they had a dropper. Impressive stuff though.

That is EXACTLY the build they ran.

I am almost positive... If not it was the same build ran by another guild.

They were doing awesome, very surprised they lost. When I was watching them they were just smashing them into the ground.

Why Me primary though? Because of fast casting? I guess Obs Flame is very cheap but it causes exhaustion is the only thing. Still its a crazy spike if used with 4-5 of the same build. You could just simply spike them in seconds. Multiple foes. I really like this build... or at least the way they ran it.

Im also very happy my guild is going to start GVG very soon!!

So this is awesome, time to practice some good PVP with some guild mates. Quite happy about that.

JR · Apr 04, 2006, 09:20 AM // 09:20

Fast cast Obs Flame spike... was only a matter of time I suppose.

Valkyries · Apr 04, 2006, 09:44 AM // 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Fast cast Obs Flame spike... was only a matter of time I suppose.

You expected as much JR? :P

Man they played really freakin well.. I was impressed.... I'd modify their build slightly I think (But hey what do I know) but overall was very very good.

Edit,

Why Glyph of Energy? There just seems to be a ton of other Elites I would put in this place?!? Even Glyph of Renewal IMO would be better. Double spike instantly. That would be mean!!

LightningHell · Apr 04, 2006, 11:40 AM // 11:40

It's just not my style to Mesmer with Stone Daggers...

And yes, I expected the "they played really freakin' well" part.

Valkyries · Apr 04, 2006, 11:52 AM // 11:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

It's just not my style to Mesmer with Stone Daggers...

And yes, I expected the "they played really freakin' well" part.

Mine neither to be honest.... but its probably just used to finish them off those last few points.

Im going to write up a build using this concept. Ill have to post it in a seperate thread so we don't get too off track. I think it looks promising.