Curse

Eet GnomeSmasher · Mar 29, 2006, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Until they move pet rezzing to Charm Animal or something Heal As One is going to be sort of redundant because you're always going to need Comfort Animal.

As others have pointed out Heal As One is not going to be a replacement for Comfort Animal and there WILL be a point where your pet dies and you'll need to rez it. Having two pet heals is redundant and a huge waste, even though one of those heals also heals you.

They really need to shift some things around so that Beast Mastery isnt so inefficient in terms of skill slots and redundancy.

J1000 · Mar 30, 2006, 07:26 AM // 07:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by jibikao

Anyone else tried Enraged Lunge? What's your reaction to this new elite?

I haven't tried it but I can do the math. You need two recharging pet skills for it to approach the damage of Brutal Strike. With Call of Protection, Call of Haste, and a leadoff pet skill (let's say Melandru's Assault) you can do ~45 damage per hit. Unfortunately, that uses one more skill slot than Brutal Strike and Ferocious Strike otherwise would, and you don't get the energy gain of FS. So you're trading a skill slot and some energy in exchange for a faster, more defensive pet. I suppose you could add in Otyugh's Cry for some serious pet skill overload. That's what it would take to max out the skill: four recharging skills.

So to get the most out of Enraged Lunge you need something crazy like this:

Pet Attack 1 (Melandru's Assault let's say)
Enraged Lunge (elite)
Call of Haste
Call of Protection
Predatory Bond
Comfort Animal
Charm Animal
Res Signet

So you see, the skill bar is 100% pet skills (outside of res)! Your pet is unnecessarily tanked out to the max in this scenario. Sure you could drop Comfort Animal in favor of Troll, but just because your pet is tanked doesn't make him any stronger against health degen. Having Predatory Bond up is the equivalent of having about +7 health regeneration sometimes. I say sometimes because, like Warriors, pets spend a lot of time running instead of attacking. And the stupid skill only lasts about 20 seconds max! That makes it worse than Mending.

I call sucky skill here. Brutal Strike and Melandru's Assault are both better than Enraged Lunge. Note: If the skill itself qualifies as "recharging" right as you use it, that would save you one skill slot. That would be slightly better, but I doubt it works that way. What might actually make this skill useful is if Heal as One were not elite. That would count as a recharging pet skill and would give you at least some hope of healing yourself.

J1000 · Mar 30, 2006, 07:31 AM // 07:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

They really need to shift some things around so that Beast Mastery isnt so inefficient in terms of skill slots and redundancy.

Here, here. They really botched up the new pet skills for the most part. Poisonous Bite is the only truly useful one. Run as One is a nice addition, but it's nothing more than an alternative/companion to the other ranger running skills. Viper's Nest is okay, but it lacks the utility of the other traps (no snaring, no blindness, mediocre initial damage).

You would think Arena.net would be looking at their statistics to realize stuff like the fact that NO ONE EVER uses skills like Bestial Pounce. Why did they pour all the power into MA/BS then leave the other skills to rot????

jibikao · Mar 30, 2006, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Glad there's some healthy posts here.

After thinking about it, I post my thoughts on another forum and I am going to copy and paste (lazy!):
-----------
In regard to Enraged Lunge:

My initial reaction to Enraged Lunge is 2/5 stars. It was only during one weekend and I only had so much time to test the new skills I bought. You are right, Enraged Lunge does very nice damage if you have more than 3 BM skills recharging but a conventional Ferocious + Brutual Strike + Melandru's Assault/Predator's Pounce/Feral Lunge can achieve similar damage AND you don't run out of energy that fast. You can try to combo Enraged with 10E pet attack skill but I gaurantee you that you will run out of gas soon. I know I did because I always tried to keep the skills recharging just to satisfy Enraged.

However, if you use the trap and other BM skills, I can see how Enraged can do great damage and I believe I did state that in my reasoning. It's a 2/5 star because I didn't believe damage was Beast Master's problem to begin with. Heal as One, on paper, offers a lot more diversity.

This just brought up a question that I thought about it this morning, does Skill Disable count as "recharging"?? This may work SUPER WELL with Tiger's Furry. A simple Tiger's Furry already disable 2 BM skills (Comfort and Charm) and then you add Call of Haste or Predator Bond. That's 3. Have you tested this? If Skill Disable does trigger Enraged Lunge, then I can see how this skill can do huge damage with a berserker build.

PS: I don't think Enraged Lunge itself adds the damage. I've tried it on the dummy in the training area and I did not notice any extra damage from Enraged alone. I am 80% sure about this.

-------------------
In regard to some new skills and how they don't seem as bad now:

All the new pet skills require a lot of conditions to use effectively. I've been thinking about the new ones like Poisonous Bite and Pounce and even Bestial Mauling.

Poisonous Bite, at first, I think this skill fits BADLY with pure beast master build, but with just 5E cost, if a warrior uses it to combo with (who can't seem to cause Poison damage) simple Sever Artery, that's -7 degen right there without much work! I can see that the new pet skills can work quite well with "secondary" class.

Bestial Mauling, when you hit a knocked down foe, the foe is Dazed. This is terribly hard to time with the pet. In fact, I don't think the attack speed (even with call of haste) of the pet can achieve Pounce + Bestial Mauling or Bestial Pounce + Bestial Mauling. However, what if an Ele combos it with a simple Gale? That's one EASY Dazed right there with only 5E COST! Even a Hammer Warrior can do this. The combo possbilities just rise up big time with the new pet skills. I think A.Net is trying to break the conventional thinking that "Beast Mastery is all or nothing!" No, it's no longer like that. I can totally see how other professions make use of the new skills with great efficiency.

J1000 · Mar 30, 2006, 05:29 PM // 17:29

[QUOTE=jibikao]This just brought up a question that I thought about it this morning, does Skill Disable count as "recharging"?? This may work SUPER WELL with Tiger's Furry. A simple Tiger's Furry already disable 2 BM skills (Comfort and Charm) and then you add Call of Haste or Predator Bond. That's 3. Have you tested this? If Skill Disable does trigger Enraged Lunge, then I can see how this skill can do huge damage with a berserker build.

That's a very good thought, not just for Warriors but for TF bow users as well. I'll definitely be trying it.

Quote:

Bestial Mauling, when you hit a knocked down foe, the foe is Dazed. This is terribly hard to time with the pet. In fact, I don't think the attack speed (even with call of haste) of the pet can achieve Pounce + Bestial Mauling or Bestial Pounce + Bestial Mauling. However, what if an Ele combos it with a simple Gale? That's one EASY Dazed right there with only 5E COST! E

Another good thought. I can see how a bow/staff R/E could time their Gale to land right before Bestial Mauling. I wouldn't call it easy though

And Gale is expensive too. The other problem is finding a cover condition for Daze. You might as well not even bother using it on a monk, unless you already have Nature's Renewal up too. Monks can rid themselves of conditions in the blink of an eye.

jibikao · Mar 30, 2006, 06:09 PM // 18:09

[QUOTE=J1000]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jibikao

This just brought up a question that I thought about it this morning, does Skill Disable count as "recharging"?? This may work SUPER WELL with Tiger's Furry. A simple Tiger's Furry already disable 2 BM skills (Comfort and Charm) and then you add Call of Haste or Predator Bond. That's 3. Have you tested this? If Skill Disable does trigger Enraged Lunge, then I can see how this skill can do huge damage with a berserker build.

That's a very good thought, not just for Warriors but for TF bow users as well. I'll definitely be trying it.

Another good thought. I can see how a bow/staff R/E could time their Gale to land right before Bestial Mauling. I wouldn't call it easy though

And Gale is expensive too. The other problem is finding a cover condition for Daze. You might as well not even bother using it on a monk, unless you already have Nature's Renewal up too. Monks can rid themselves of conditions in the blink of an eye.

I've always thought all the skills that cause Daze either cost way too much or are too hard to achieve (Skull Crack). Now we have more and more skills that cause Daze. Bestial Mauling costs the LEAST of all I think and it's not elite. It's hard to time it with the pet and I guess that's the challenge of it. Gale's 3s or Hammer's 3s knockdown will make it much easier.

Daze in 8v8 may be less effective since condition is so easily cured but in random or 4v4, I can see it very effective. We need more testings of course.

Evilsod · Mar 30, 2006, 10:34 PM // 22:34

I tried out a similar build to that BM/Exp/Marks that was mentioned earlier.

I used Ferocious Strike (becuase it was the only pet elite around at this time) along with an interrupt and Penetrating Attack + a few other pet skills. It gave me a fair bit of damage (13 BM 14 marks rest exp) and plenty of energy but the lack of healing was pretty bad. With a monk around it worked ok but once they got distracted i was pretty screwed.

I can see Heal As One been useful for this sorta build but then id have energy problems, its a lose lose situation

Linkusmax · Mar 31, 2006, 02:02 AM // 02:02

Quote:

I think A.Net is trying to break the conventional thinking that "Beast Mastery is all or nothing!" No, it's no longer like that. I can totally see how other professions make use of the new skills with great efficiency.

This was never true, the best beastmasters have always used /W for melee. In fact I can see my Pet preassure getting nasty as hell with Bestial Mauling. With the below build I just have to hit bestial just after I hit hammer bash and I should daze the target 75% of the time, if there blocking me slam a irrisistable blow home for the same effect.

R/W Thumper
14 Beastmastery (Hat + Sup Rune)
12 Hammer Mastery
9 Expertise (Minor Rune)

Preferance + Druids Armour

Charm Animal
Comfort Animal
Hammer Bash
Irrisistable Blow
Bestial Mauling
Ferocious Strike (e)
Tigers Fury
Ressurection Signet

jibikao · Mar 31, 2006, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linkusmax

This was never true, the best beastmasters have always used /W for melee. In fact I can see my Pet preassure getting nasty as hell with Bestial Mauling. With the below build I just have to hit bestial just after I hit hammer bash and I should daze the target 75% of the time, if there blocking me slam a irrisistable blow home for the same effect.

R/W Thumper
14 Beastmastery (Hat + Sup Rune)
12 Hammer Mastery
9 Expertise (Minor Rune)

Preferance + Druids Armour

Charm Animal
Comfort Animal
Hammer Bash
Irrisistable Blow
Bestial Mauling
Ferocious Strike (e)
Tigers Fury
Ressurection Signet

All or nothing.... you put 14 in Beast Mastery. I call it "all". That's a lot of investment in one skill line dude.

I guess I wasn't clear but besides R/W or W/R using Tiger's Fury or pet's dead body, I hardly see any other class that really uses pet. Some Necros do but most only use it for energy and very few Mesmers use pet to spam disrupting lunge.

But with the new pet skills, a simple combo with Bestiaul Mauling with your build and even Ele can make it very useful, at least in random arena. I don't think anybody had the time to test everything out but I can see Beast Mastery becoming more versatile.