Curse

Maxiemonster · Apr 11, 2006, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Why can't you understand that inside SF, Balthazar's Spirit and Essence Bond give you EXACTLY as much Energy? :/

The Fenixxor · Apr 11, 2006, 08:53 PM // 20:53

thats great, but u have to start outside

LouAl · Apr 12, 2006, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxiemonster

Why can't you understand that inside SF, Balthazar's Spirit and Essence Bond give you EXACTLY as much Energy? :/

how do you figure?

With my build I run Life bond on the whole party. When others (non-tanks) get hit I get that energy also. With Essence I would not, unless I had essence on all of them, of course, but I don't because L. Bond does more than just get energy for me.

The point of running life bond on everyone is so that (in SF or out of it) whenever anyone gets hit, I take some of that damage AND I get energy. In this situation Balth's + L. Bond is the better choice.

Edit: huh, I never knew that essence bonds from different people stacked...

The Fenixxor · Apr 13, 2006, 12:21 AM // 00:21

Yea, they dont give the target two enchants, they seem to merge into one - but both casters will gain energy each time he gets hit.

Maxiemonster · Apr 13, 2006, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouAl

how do you figure?

With my build I run Life bond on the whole party. When others (non-tanks) get hit I get that energy also. With Essence I would not, unless I had essence on all of them, of course, but I don't because L. Bond does more than just get energy for me.

The point of running life bond on everyone is so that (in SF or out of it) whenever anyone gets hit, I take some of that damage AND I get energy. In this situation Balth's + L. Bond is the better choice.

Edit: huh, I never knew that essence bonds from different people stacked...

lol.. Do you run Bonds on everyone while inside SF? :/ That's just plain stupid. Your Tank is the only one taking damage, the others don't need bonds. And yes, in the situation that everyone can get hit, Balthazar's Spirit is WAY better, but that's not the situation.

And Fenixxor, do you know if all Essence Bonds are removed in one Enchantment removal? That'd be lame..

ender6 · Apr 13, 2006, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxiemonster

lol.. Do you run Bonds on everyone while inside SF? :/ That's just plain stupid. Your Tank is the only one taking damage, the others don't need bonds. And yes, in the situation that everyone can get hit, Balthazar's Spirit is WAY better, but that's not the situation.

And Fenixxor, do you know if all Essence Bonds are removed in one Enchantment removal? That'd be lame..

The FA run takes you from Dlidremor camp, through the foot print, and then into SF. Therefore, while in the footprint you bond everyone, when you are in SF you only need to bond the tank. Not sure WTF you are trying to say. But it is apparent that life bond with balz is a far supperior choic over essence bond. In addition, to the fact that life bond serves two purposes, maybe you think taking balthz is a waste of a skill spot? But even there you are mistaken because it acts as a nice cover enchant to be thrown onto the tank once inside of SF.

You ask if all essence bonds are removed in one enchantment removal? Do you think essence bond stacks? You can only place one essence bond on the tank not multiple. I am starting to get the feeling that you have never even SF farmed.

One thing I am sure of is that I don't want you ever bonding for me when I am making an FA/Oro run.

**One thing to be new and seeking to better oneself, another to be obstinate and just plain foolish.

Maxiemonster · Apr 13, 2006, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by ender6

The FA run takes you from Dlidremor camp, through the foot print, and then into SF. Therefore, while in the footprint you bond everyone, when you are in SF you only need to bond the tank. Not sure WTF you are trying to say. But it is apparent that life bond with balz is a far supperior choic over essence bond. In addition, to the fact that life bond serves two purposes, maybe you think taking balthz is a waste of a skill spot? But even there you are mistaken because it acts as a nice cover enchant to be thrown onto the tank once inside of SF.

You ask if all essence bonds are removed in one enchantment removal? Do you think essence bond stacks? You can only place one essence bond on the tank not multiple. I am starting to get the feeling that you have never even SF farmed.

One thing I am sure of is that I don't want you ever bonding for me when I am making an FA/Oro run.

**One thing to be new and seeking to better oneself, another to be obstinate and just plain foolish.

lol? I've 4-manned FA many times as a Monk, I know what I'm talking about.

I'm saying the inside SF Essence Bond is better then Balthazar's Spirit, and I'm right about that. Outside SF, Balthazar's Spirit is better, but I'm saying that I'd rather get the small advantage inside SF, then the big advantage outside SF.

And I'm not asking if you can cast multiple Essence Bonds on the same target. I'm talking about Essence Bond that have been stacked because multiple people have cast Essence Bond on someone.

**Shut the hell up and try to understand me first before you start saying I suck.

holden · Apr 13, 2006, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxiemonster

I'm saying the inside SF Essence Bond is better then Balthazar's Spirit, and I'm right about that. Outside SF, Balthazar's Spirit is better, but I'm saying that I'd rather get the small advantage inside SF, then the big advantage outside SF.

that's true.

ender6 · Apr 13, 2006, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxiemonster

lol? I've 4-manned FA many times as a Monk, I know what I'm talking about.

I'm saying the inside SF Essence Bond is better then Balthazar's Spirit, and I'm right about that. Outside SF, Balthazar's Spirit is better, but I'm saying that I'd rather get the small advantage inside SF, then the big advantage outside SF.

And I'm not asking if you can cast multiple Essence Bonds on the same target. I'm talking about Essence Bond that have been stacked because multiple people have cast Essence Bond on someone.

**Shut the hell up and try to understand me first before you start saying I suck.

I still don't see how essence is better than having Balz WITH lifebond inside of SF. As I already stated: if you think balz is a wasted skill slot, it can be used as a cover enchant on a tank, so it has functionality inside of SF aswell.

Further, when you select your skill setup from the begining you have to plan for the entire trip, from footprint to SF -- not just SF. I don't see how you can believe that essence bond is the better build. PS I have 4 man'd countless times.

**And trust me, i am trying to understand you, just not getting it.

Katari · Apr 13, 2006, 06:50 PM // 18:50

With Balth's + Lifebond there are two ways for your energy regen to be shut down, and there's no cover enchant on you to protect your balth's. You'll get stripped freqnently, and you'll find yourself recasting Balth's on yourself freqently. Essence bond acts as a cover enchant on the tank, or if it happens to be burried, there's no way that it'll be removed.

imho, it's better to just have Life Barriers on everyone while you're in GF. I don't see a need for everyone to have Bond+Barrier as long as your heal monk is halfway decent.

Mantra of Incriptions is a waste on SF runs because you simply don't need the energy. You don't strictly need it when you're outside, and inside most bonders don't even do a darned thing with their energy besides recast the occasional bond.

The Fenixxor · Apr 13, 2006, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Yea, i always use essence bond as the first enchant and then cover it up, so its rarely stripped - but yea its a valid point, essence bond is (i suppose) marginally better inside grenths. Not even sure why theres a thread about this though, bonding in SF is so unbelievably easy

its like making a thread about the optimum build to kill charr.

otherside · Apr 13, 2006, 08:51 PM // 20:51

glad some people found use out of my post... would like to clear up/explain a few things about my build.

Why I use mantra of inscriptions: It's easier for me to keep bonds up when I have blessed running faster.. I wouldn't have a problem w/o it, I just like having it as a precaution.

Why I don't run any healing prot spells (like reversal): I usually run with my guildie healer, and he's l33t

so I like to have more bonds to help him out instead of heals (like life attune).

Why I run watchful (with above): My guildie healer is l33t, but it's always nice to run a full-time +2 hp regen on people, plus you can easily take it off if your healer's having a hard time for an easy 170+ heal.

Why I run vital (problem with it being an easy shatter?): Vital is tight for it's high hp, what I do when I get into SF is bond barrier, bond, then watchful, then cast life attune and vital, so the vital goes first (the fastest casting bond), then life attune goes next (both are only 10 energy). So it only dents me a little in energy to get the bonds back up quick, and with barrier/bond/watchful/your healer watching the tank, I never see his hp go down much from a shatter.

*Edit* to Fenixxor... bonding is easy, good builds are made to make it easier

Maxiemonster · Apr 13, 2006, 09:00 PM // 21:00

4-manning SF isn't hard if your Tank knows what he's doing, but most of the time in PUG, the Tank is absolutly useless. If the Tank doesn't control all aggro, meaning you or one of the Necros gets attacked, the one attacked dies quite quickly, and since they don't have Bonds, you can waste your Energy easily.

And Katari, you can always cover with Boon, if you take it

And I ran Holy Veil (replaced with Rebirth) last run, and used Divine Boon (for myself) and Holy Veil (on the Tank) as cover enchantments (and Hex Removal of course, for Rust on me, and Crippling Anguish on the Tank).

And I still use Essence Bond, even though I've already got Holy Veil as a cover enchant. I just use it as a second cover enchant now ^^ I still don't have Energy problems outside, and it won't change either

LouAl · Apr 14, 2006, 06:40 PM // 18:40

@ender6
maxie was responding to something that I had posted. S/he (I try hard to not make assumptions, and I am not having a go at you, maxiemonster) wasn't being a jerk (at least I didn't thnk so).

@maxiemonster
I guess we were really talking about 2 different areas. You were talking about Sorrow's Furnace (with guildies) and I was talking about Sorrow's Furnace (with PuG's)

But, yeah I bond everyone, even inside the furnace...my guild kinda sucks (Fools) and so I use my friends list and PuGs. I usually end up with healers that are off taking a crap about half the time. With bonds on everyone I don't have to worry (as much) that the healer is afk and the tank is a moron, and as a bonus, it helps ward off some of the boredom making sure to keep all 12-13 enchants up all the time when I am in a group with good healing/tanking.

Side note (also directed toward Katari), as far as a good cover chant...IMO Vital blessing/Essence bond are both horrible choices. Holy Veil is a good option, but I prefer Watchful Spirit. It gives a great heal when removed, recharges 2 seconds faster than veil, and helps offset *some* of the damage with its +2 regen. It is what I cover my balth's with so I never have to worry about my energy supply being down.