Curse

Evilsod · Apr 13, 2006, 07:00 PM // 19:00

SS does do a little much though. I understand that its elite and that it should therefore have a good bonus compared to the basic version. But SS makes Empathy look pathetic.
SS triggers on everything. Does more damage. Has an area effect.
Empathy triggers on attack. Does 6 less (at lvl16). Single target.

At least make it trigger on offensive spells too?

Numa Pompilius · Apr 13, 2006, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Spiteful Spirit should, IMO, have been a mesmer spell. It is just out of place in the necro line of spells, but would have been right at home as an elite in the Domination mesmer line.
And God knows the mesmers could use an AoE spell other than Chaos Storm.

SS has always struck me as 'wrong'. There's a few spells I feel are in the "wrong class"; e.g. surely Scourge Healing should be a NECRO skill, not a MONK skill?

Cirian · Apr 13, 2006, 08:05 PM // 20:05

Yeah, scourge healing is an odd one isn't it? And I agree mesmers need more aoe, I used to like chaos storm because it was chaos damage, 15 per tick... I think it would make a great Hex, to turn an enemy into a pulsing aoe damage + mana draining storm

LouAl · Apr 13, 2006, 08:11 PM // 20:11

hmm, I had kinda given up on this thread, but it is nice to see that some people understand what I am saying, even if they don't agree (I can be kinda[extremely] confusing sometimes).

I am not saying that SS isn't fun or that it MUST be nerfed. I was really just trying to get some good conversation going on whether or not it is a bit too much on the powerful side.

Cirian, I'm glad that you also noticed that when you fart it triggers SS. It always pisses me off when I get hexed with SS and I think, "Hmmm, how is my computer gonna notice if I let out just a little fart..." Next thing I know I'm spreading damage to my whole team...

@ Angel Develin
If I can use your same comparisons
Energy Surge {e}
Energy Burn
These two skills are exatly the same, except that Surge does AoE damage (not AoE energy reduction)

Empathy
Spiteful Spirit{e}
These two skills are *almost* the same, except that SS costs slightly more and does an outrageous amount of damage. If it is used on one enemy it still does a good deal more, but it also does AoE damage.

I see a big difference in the the two comparisons...

Edit:

I didn't see some of the latest posts...
Scourge Healing is a weird skill for a monk but I *guess* it kinda makes sense...the holy wrath of the gods disliking necromancers and what not...

Evilsod, Numa - that is exactly what I am saying

Here would be a good way to fix it
Make SS a mesmer skill, make E surge do 1.5 times the damage that burn does, make Word of Healing heal for 190 always (280 if below 50%), make order of the vampire cost 15e last for 10 seconds and up the damage to 12...28, etc

Angel Develin · Apr 13, 2006, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Energy surge does dmg to all foes in the area, I think that it does more dmg, you dont need to attack or do something to get dmg, its pure dmg to you and all ppl around you, at max it does more then 160 or 180 dmg, but with SS you can remove hex or just not attck and get out of the group, energy surge takes your energy away and is very usefull IMO I do agree that in PVE SS is more usefull but in PvP you get fast kills with energy surge.

I do not agree with giving SS to mesmers

that would leave us with allmost nothing

and mesmers have Illusionary Weaponry :P. try that with flurry and Imagined Burden

.

Ention · Apr 13, 2006, 11:05 PM // 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cirian

Yeah, scourge healing is an odd one isn't it? And I agree mesmers need more aoe, I used to like chaos storm because it was chaos damage, 15 per tick... I think it would make a great Hex, to turn an enemy into a pulsing aoe damage + mana draining storm

hmmm....well even though they already have a couple I agree. I want m0re!

And another thing, I had my friend check on me and I found out that, at max, energy burn/surge can only inflict a max of 80 dmg each and that was a bit of a dissappointment...

LouAl · Apr 14, 2006, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel Develin

Energy surge does dmg to all foes in the area, I think that it does more dmg, you dont need to attack or do something to get dmg, its pure dmg to you and all ppl around you, at max it does more then 160 or 180 dmg, but with SS you can remove hex or just not attck and get out of the group, energy surge takes your energy away and is very usefull IMO I do agree that in PVE SS is more usefull but in PvP you get fast kills with energy surge.

I do not agree with giving SS to mesmers

that would leave us with allmost nothing

and mesmers have Illusionary Weaponry :P. try that with flurry and Imagined Burden

.

160-180 dmg? 160 if you meant total dmg against 2 foes.

Energy Surge (Elite)
Elite Spell. Target foe loses (Min: 4 - Max: 10) Energy. For each point of Energy lost, that foe and all foes in the area take 8 damage.
(taken from http://guildwars.com/gameplay/skills...tion-magic.php)

It does 80 max per foe (unless you have a +1 to dom item, then it does 88). That is 160 total dmg if there are 2 foes that get hit, 240 total dmg if 3 foes get hit...

I wasn't really comparing E. Surge to SS, I was comparing it to E Burn (elite vs non-elite), but if you want to...
SS does (according to my orig. post) vs 2 foes: 1168, vs 3 foes: 1752

but it is a crappy comparison because E Surge is gauranteed to foes in the area where SS is not. I was trying to say that E-burn vs E-surge is a much more reasonable difference of non-elite vs elite than the Empathy vs SS comparison.

IW is a great elite, but only against a single foe. It really only outputs slightly more damage than what a warrior can do without attack skills, it puts you (a mesmer) in melee range of attacks, and only attacks one opponent at a time. What makes it great is the fact that it cannot be blocked or evaded and the damage is always what is listed regardless of armor.

To say that Necro has nothing if they don't have SS is woefully underestimating the proffession, and IMO is an incredible insult. It is just as bad as saying that necros should always bring blood ritual...What about Lingering Curse (much underused IMO), Life Transfer, Soul Leech, Well of Power, Aura of the Lich, Virulence, and a ton of other non-elites like minions, vamp touch, order of pain, rend enchantments...

sorry to all, I always end up ranting in this thread

Xpl0iter · Apr 14, 2006, 05:43 AM // 05:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel Develin

I do not agree with giving SS to mesmers

that would leave us with allmost nothing

and mesmers have Illusionary Weaponry :P. try that with flurry and Imagined Burden

.

Uh, i see, so one skill basically either makes you elite or leaves you with nothing? try justifying that last paragraph of yours, i love that kinda talk. Am amazed that you forgot that you guys can be Every one's Favourite MMs and lovley blood necros who can pull the build of a support, or either total offensive? You just made me laugh, i thankyou for such a post.

@Loual,
i wont say that your ranting. Your basically giving out fair facts which makes full sense. the only thing i see here is necros, always crying about how they need to be given more skills because they find current skills not enough. it is just sad to hear all the cry about damages. The elites you mentioned are very powerful indeed. FoC can't be ignored either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cirian

Yeah, scourge healing is an odd one isn't it? And I agree mesmers need more aoe, I used to like chaos storm because it was chaos damage, 15 per tick... I think it would make a great Hex, to turn an enemy into a pulsing aoe damage + mana draining storm

Mesmers need more aoe with current set of such power full skills in hand? don't you think you are asking for already quite much right after your profession has been buffed with very destructive spells? if you need names, i will end up leading you to a thread where we have discussed new skills already. Dude, i guess it is time that you guys stop crying for more skills after being buffed, and thank ANET for being so nice to your profession, a profession which is most feared in pvp.
Talk about the freaking power and cry babies. Mesmers are mostly a foe damage because of the kind of damage they put. i do not think armour matters against their damage. Correct me if i am wrong though.

Irritating caster killers. At times, warrior killers, energy drainers. Yet the hunger never dies.

Regardz
An Elementalist.

Numa Pompilius · Apr 14, 2006, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xpl0iter

Mesmers need more aoe with current set of such power full skills in hand?

Frankly, it wouldn't hurt, but mainly I see it as being consistent with which skills go where. SS is basically a means of getting the enemy to do nothing or suffer the consequences, which is mesmer territory. I understand that necros like SS, and don't want to lose it, as it's a hugely powerful spell, and I don't have a problem with necros having it other than it seems, well, out of place.

It's not the only spell I'd like to shuffle around - I've mentioned that I feel Scourge Healing should be a necro spell (and more "scourging" than it is now), but also I feel that, say, Healing Spring should be a monk spell, and Remove Hex should be a mesmer spell.

Basically I'd just like to see the professions more "pure", more specialized, than they are now, to complicate builds a bit.

LouAl · Apr 14, 2006, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Good thoughts Numa.

I actually just realized that I was thinking of scourge sacrifice when I said a few posts ago about holy wrath of the gods hating necros. So, yeah, Scourge Healing fits better with necro and Scourge Sacrifice is fine where it is IMO.

@xploiter
I am not debating at all that mesmers are very powerful, but they were not the only ones that got some good buffs in the recent updates. Still, I would not want Anet to move SS to Mesmer without changing anything else. But don't mesmers have fewer elites than anyone else? hang those warriors for stealing one... (that is not actually true, mesmers have 24 while rit and assassin only have 15, but Mo, Ra, E have 25 and W gets 26 - assuming I can count)

It would be fun to try and move things around to get all the skills into the profession where they 'fit' best. IMO it would be a great idea to have all the prof's be very speciallized, like Numa said, it would make the builds more complicated (I think that fun is also implied).

Edit: glad to hear I am not coming off as purely ranting, at least to one person

Xpl0iter · Apr 14, 2006, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Loual,
I for one, could say eles got quite a few elites, and half of them are kinda fuzzy. Having elites, if they are garbage, doesn't really make them elite, i mean ok, in factions, who cares about DD when we have major issues like energy and exhaustion?

SS, if moved from necros to mesmers, will have a huge impact on professions, things will turn into Me/N instead of N/Me. Not sure about how scourge healing works though, never had it on my skill bar.
I just want things more balanced between all professions *sigh* even though i got all characters, and builds i could play along with beside monk and rangers ofcourse. I still dont find my self comfortable with playing those builds beside the eles. I could farm any place as an SS necro, in SF or UW, or as MM, in tombs, or orders too. It is just that, i hate relying on a profession which doesn't suits my personality.
SS is way too powerful when compared to empathy, i mean, i don't really see a link beside they both trigger when a foe attacks ( ss just goes beyond attacks I.E farts too ). I just hate to see the glyphs we got as eles, i mean they are garbage, unless elite. and 1 sec cast on elite glyphs just makes them bad enough too. They got their good side, but too many bad sides as well.

Regardz
An Elementalist.

Mr D J · Apr 15, 2006, 12:11 AM // 00:11

SS totally owns empathy imo

Xpl0iter · Apr 15, 2006, 04:39 AM // 04:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joker The Owner

SS totally owns empathy imo

So damn true.

Regardz
An Elementalist.

sno · Apr 15, 2006, 08:25 AM // 08:25

As for the posts saying that SS should be a mesmer skill:

Mesmers are meant for single target destruction. Very few mesmer skills effect more than a single person (foe or self usually) and that's the way it's meant to be. Mesmers are very powerful against a single target, just as necros are powerful against many targets (see: suffering, tainted, desecrate, practically the entire death line, other spammable things.) That's imo why SS belongs as a necro skill. Having SS in Domination would make mesmers all-powerful, as if they weren't already.

suiraCLAW · Apr 15, 2006, 09:37 AM // 09:37

What about SS vs this new faction's elite:

Name: Spoil Victor (Elite)
Profession: Necromancer
Linked Attribute: Blood Magic
Skill Type: Hex Spell
Release Available: Guild Wars Factions
Energy Cost: 10
Casting Time: 1.00
Recharge Time: 10.00
Description: For 1..25..33 seconds, whenever target foe attacks or casts a Spell on a creature with less Health that foe loses 5..41..53 Health.

My opinion: SS is much better.

Xpl0iter · Apr 17, 2006, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by sno

As for the posts saying that SS should be a mesmer skill:

Mesmers are meant for single target destruction. Very few mesmer skills effect more than a single person (foe or self usually) and that's the way it's meant to be. Mesmers are very powerful against a single target, just as necros are powerful against many targets (see: suffering, tainted, desecrate, practically the entire death line, other spammable things.) That's imo why SS belongs as a necro skill. Having SS in Domination would make mesmers all-powerful, as if they weren't already.

/Agreed.

Yo Sno, its me Darkest Necro

i will bug u on gw sometime

Pay my regardz to Jerry

Regardz

Slit Wrists · Apr 18, 2006, 02:44 PM // 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Spitefull Spirit on a caster is really not worth the effort. Generally they aren't going to be casting enough to make it do worthwhile damage.

Regarding the reload of S, you can use it on the warrior and the prot.

Since the prot spams a few skills ( mend, rof, rc, guardian..), it's pretty effective.