Curse

A Leprechaun · Apr 06, 2006, 03:44 PM // 15:44

i know that some warrior skills are good in and IW buld and also that some warrior attacks work too but i would be gratful if someone could name the ones that work, the ones that are good and mabye some good builds that you heard about/use
thanks a lot
A Leprechaun

p.s is it just that it can use any energy attack?

LightningHell · Apr 06, 2006, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Leprechaun

i know that some warrior skills are good in and IW buld and also that some warrior attacks work too but i would be gratful if someone could name the ones that work, the ones that are good and mabye some good builds that you heard about/use
thanks a lot
A Leprechaun

p.s is it just that it can use any energy attack?

Attack skills don't work. However, Flurry is a must, as is Healing Signet. Watch Yourself is in all my Me/W builds.

So, I'm aiming at:

IW
Sympathetic Visage
Distortion
Healing Signet
Watch Yourself
Illusion of Weakness (debatable)
Flurry
Resurrection Signet

A Leprechaun · Apr 06, 2006, 05:55 PM // 17:55

i thought a lot of people use ripose and that do they not work?

Francis Demeules · Apr 06, 2006, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Leprechaun

i thought a lot of people use ripose and that do they not work?

You're always in constant evade with Distrotion and Adrenaline skills dont work (maybe Deadly Riposte, not Riposte which its an Ad skill and after that Distortion)

Like Hell said, Flurry is a must. The dmg dealing doesn't change while in Flurry. Other thing, Flurry and Distortion are both Stances. Use them wisely when to switch Flurry to Distortion for self-defense.

A Leprechaun · Apr 06, 2006, 07:34 PM // 19:34

groovy

so:
IW
flurry
distortion
??? what else is a must have???
oh and what attack skills actully work at all like do dmg or just have effects ....anyone know?

Francis Demeules · Apr 06, 2006, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Leprechaun

groovy

so:
IW
flurry
distortion
??? what else is a must have???
oh and what attack skills actully work at all like do dmg or just have effects ....anyone know?

Well, on what I heard, Cyclone axe works and Hundred blades (not sure). You need a Healing skill (Healing signet, Illusion of Weakness or Ether Feast) to... heal yourself duh!

Not must have, but useful:

Spirit of failure is a good skill to mix with Distortion to gain and maintain energy thought.
Clumsiness to piss-off the warriors
Sympathic Visage to cover your IW... and piss-off the warriors
Blackout, stop the monks for few seconds (be caution while using this skill)

Bloodied Blade · Apr 06, 2006, 08:22 PM // 20:22

You *NEED* Sympathetic Visage or some form of cover for IW, otherwise it will just get removed by any skilled player with access to enchantment removal.

I do not reccomend Blackout, as your distortion will be disabled for a few seconds once you use it (I watched an IW mesmer hit a teammate with that and everyone just pasted him).

I would suggest Illusion of Weakness **ONLY** because IW mesmers are some of the easiest builds out there to kill (a blood spiker will have you down in the time it takes IW to activate).

Flurry and Deadly Riposte are very deadly when combined with IW (you let the warrior get a hit in, then flip to distortion)...if you swing at the one who hit you at the same time as the Riposte as triggered, they will easily take 100 dmg or more (I run IW warriors from time to time...rather funny to solo an entire team.)

I suggest *BOTH* Ether Feast and Healing Signet, Ether Feast for when you are being attacked, and Healing Signet for when you are only under attack by the monk/weak target (don't make the mistake of using Distortion + Healing Signet and believing that you are safe from that elementalist's or necromancer's deadly wrath).

Good Luck with the IW build!

Hella Good · Apr 06, 2006, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Meh, isn't there an IW build somewhere here. I'm sure if you use the search option, you'll find some. But yea, IW, Flurry, Illusion of Weakness, Heal Sig, Distortion and the rest is personal preference. I see a lot of IW-ers bring some sort of snare like Imagined and/or Ethereal Burden. Some bring SV- it's mostly an IW cover chant. Make sure you pump up Tactics to get a real high Heal Sig and make sure you have good armor.

wheel · Apr 06, 2006, 09:21 PM // 21:21

I absolutely love how all the IW builds that have been posted so far have no Sprint skill. Sprint is a VERY integral part of an IW build. That, and cover enchantments. If you don't have Sprint (or another runspeed skill), the only things you will kill are idiots in PvP who don't know how to kite.

That said, IW is a bad build, because its recharge is entirely too lengthy to consider for competitive play. Their DPS is similar to a Warrior's, but it has no spike potential, as well as there's the fact that the character is fragile. They're useless everywhere but Random Arena, where you can count on one of your opponents to be bad. That sounds like a great premise of a build. It works if your opponents are bad. Great!!!!!!

S!carius · Apr 06, 2006, 09:31 PM // 21:31

recharge is too long. I think not. If you are running with 20% enchant mod on your sword, you have to wait only 4 seconds for IW to recharge.

too fragile. yes, but that is where distortion comes into play. Sure, you can't stand up to 3-4 people attacking you, but you sure as hell can take on 1, sometiems 2 without much of a problem at all.

-Sic

LouAl · Apr 06, 2006, 09:38 PM // 21:38

wheel, I agree with lots of what you said, especially that IW is a bad skill to build around for competitive use (implied). I do think that for soloing in PvE it is very tough to beat (it can't take on many at a time but can kill even the strongest bosses quite easily).

The recharge is only to long if it gets stripped (again the need for a cover - Illusion of haste will serve as cover and speed boost), it will last or about 36 seconds with a +20 enchant weapon and that leaves only a 4 second window where it is down. Also a lowered recharge off hand would help.

I also like to use IW as a backup for when someone tries to bring trouble to me. As a mesmer I don't fancy running up to a warrior and challenging him/her to a face off, but if they come at me it can be a good way to get someone to switch targets (or quickly destroy the monster that is threatening your monk).

Dragannia · Apr 06, 2006, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Personally I never use Tactics for my IW Mesmer, since I prefer to max out my Domination in favour of Blackout.

Francis Demeules · Apr 06, 2006, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragannia

Personally I never use Tactics for my IW Mesmer, since I prefer to max out my Domination in favour of Blackout.

Blackout and use a stance before your skills are disable is a good combo

wheel · Apr 06, 2006, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by S!carius

recharge is too long. I think not. If you are running with 20% enchant mod on your sword, you have to wait only 4 seconds for IW to recharge.

I'm sure it works fine and dandy when no one strips the enchantment. All of your damage is HINGING on an enchantment with a very long recharge. That's a very very bad idea. Or were you counting on the fact that your opponent would be bad?

Hella Good · Apr 06, 2006, 10:28 PM // 22:28

I like my Heal Sig, Blackout can leave you dry when you need a heal real bad. I max my Illusion and put rest in Tactics and Fast cast (10/9 sounds like it). I don't think Spirit is whatsoever needed. I prefer to use hex snares but then I'm a hex lover what can I tell you.

wheel · Apr 06, 2006, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouAl

wheel, I agree with lots of what you said, especially that IW is a bad skill to build around for competitive use (implied). I do think that for soloing in PvE it is very tough to beat (it can't take on many at a time but can kill even the strongest bosses quite easily).

The recharge is only to long if it gets stripped (again the need for a cover - Illusion of haste will serve as cover and speed boost), it will last or about 36 seconds with a +20 enchant weapon and that leaves only a 4 second window where it is down. Also a lowered recharge off hand would help.

For soloing in PvE, I'm sure it's a great skill. Then again, PvE is completely different form PvP. At any rate, the whole cover enchantment argument doesn't work for the most part because if someone really wants to, they can watch for IW to be cast on you every 30-40s or so, and when it starts casting, they start to cast Drain Enchant or whatever else. You won't have enough time to put up a cover enchantment, even with 16 Fast Casting.

Obviously that argument is slightly flawed because obviously enchantment removal is a direct counter to IW, but that's not the point. The point is, it takes a significantly lower investment on the enemy's part to completely disable your damage output. All they have to invest in is one spot enchantment removal every 40s or so. You're investing 75 Health, 97 attribute points, and your elite slot for a skill whose damage is merely on par with a Warrior who is much more durable, versatile, and who has spike potential. You may utilize your points in illusion further by having more skills to absorb the cost of 75 HP and 97 attribute points, but you're still wasting your elite slot. It's just not a good idea 99% of the time.

LouAl · Apr 06, 2006, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Blackout can really suck if you are caught in the middle of it...

Also, I agree with wheel and will take it a step further. Any build that cannot function without one of its skills needs to be reworked. You need to be able to lose some and still be able to function.

On the same vein of thought, you should never build a skill set with the assumption that it will work against subpar enemies (unless you are making a PvE build

). If it only works against idiots, doesn't that make you the bigger idiot for using it? You knew it was a crappy build and ran it anyway?

So...if you use IW as primary damage, make sure it is well covered (at least one enchant, but more would be better - like IoW and IoH). Also make sure that you have some way to protect yourself or you are dead before you start, distort works well (please don't heal sig while you are getting beat on unless you are also under distort).

If you use IW as supplementary damage (I think I am the only person who does this) then ONLY use it as supplementary, don't run out in front and start wailing on people...

EDIT:

Wheel, your last post slipped in while I was writing. I totally agree. I think it is a bad skill to use in PvP, and as with any one-trick-wonder builds it is much easier to counter than it is to maintain.

LightningHell · Apr 06, 2006, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Which is why we don't see IW in anything other than Arenas, mmhm?

Francis Demeules · Apr 06, 2006, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

Which is why we don't see IW in anything other than Arenas, mmhm?

Seeing an IW Mesmer in HoH is very useless..... and a good target to kill too

NatalieD · Apr 07, 2006, 12:03 AM // 00:03

If you're not bringing Blackout, there's no reason to even try bothering with IW. The whole point is that you can spam Blackout on a monk while still doing something useful. Without Blackout, you're just a wannabe warrior with no attack skills, no spike, no armor, and a huge vulnerability to a simple enchantment removal. Oh, but you can ignore Guardian. Woo!