Curse

Echo Ecko x · Apr 06, 2006, 08:39 AM // 08:39

Well.. I think being a primary ranger is kinda stupid. Because, you have this useless expertise. I understnad what it supposed to do, but it doesnt seem to work well with what i do. Im an R/M. So any suggests on what to do, or just kinda ignore that skill?

S!carius · Apr 06, 2006, 09:51 AM // 09:51

Did you look at this?

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...sts-id1154.php

If you don't have enough points into expertise, it won't do much at all for you.

arohk · Apr 06, 2006, 11:57 AM // 11:57

What skills are you using? Perhaps the problem lies in those.

IMO expertise is the best primary attribute in the game

LordMahal · Apr 06, 2006, 12:28 PM // 12:28

Expertise is useless?!?!?! OMG, what type of ranger do you play? I mean if you have energy issues, be a ele first, but it wont help, trust me. Expertise is the strength behind being a ranger. I mean, touch rangers rely on expertise, hell all rangers should use it. Trappers, interupters, and the like. Granted, after about 10 in expertise, you dont need to put more, but that 40% cost reduction is priceless.

moriz · Apr 06, 2006, 12:32 PM // 12:32

expertise also features some of the best defensive skills in the game, as well as my favourite elite: oath shot. it's impossible to ignore expertise. if any other class has access to it, they will pump it up too.

Huntmaster · Apr 06, 2006, 01:53 PM // 13:53

I take expertise for granted.. :x

Evilsod · Apr 06, 2006, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Expertise is possibly the most useful primary stat there is.

As Moriz said, Expertise has the best defensive skills the game has to offer. There isnt a single defensive stance that can beat Whirling Defences w/ the optional Oath Shot. However it does also have the worst stance. Practiced Stance sucks so much it doesn't deserve to be elite.

arohk · Apr 06, 2006, 02:48 PM // 14:48

I think it is elite because of choking gas. Or maybe i'm mistaken...

Evilsod · Apr 06, 2006, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Yeah choking gas is the only skill you can possibly use with Practiced Stance and not waste your elite slot completely. Seriously i hate that elite almost as much as i do Unyielding Aura. I can't even bring myself to recap that elite on my monk.

Huntmaster · Apr 06, 2006, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Practiced Stance sucks so much it doesn't deserve to be elite.

Dedicated Practice/Choking inturupter is deadly as hell.. Although very conditional, it's also a lot of fun to play. Works better in PvE though.

SnipiousMax · Apr 06, 2006, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Practiced Stance sucks so much it doesn't deserve to be elite.

It really needs to be reworked. If it added armor while using an preperation, or some kind of bonus to your preps (ie...damage), then it'd be worth an elite.

But as it is, in that it only works with one skill...period. It's not worth an elite. But I guess it could be argued that Incendiary Arrows + Practiced Stance would be too powerful....

ArianeB · Apr 06, 2006, 05:37 PM // 17:37

I shift attributes points in my R/Mo all the time. Half the fun of playing ranger is the versatility they offer, so I like to shift points and try new builds all the time.

Even marksmanship gets lowered occasionally, to play a trapper role or have fun with an uber pet.

But Expertise never gets lowered below 8, and most of the time it is 10-12.

Echo Ecko x · Apr 06, 2006, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Actaully, my profile lies, and I changed my primary to a me.

Anyways.. This is what is it shaping up to be for my build..

sig of capture
res sig
apply posion
imagioned burden
clumsieness
troll unguent
epidemic
conjure phantasim

I know its not looking too good, but i slowly learning to play as an innturupter. And when I do FoW or, whatever in the hell those things are, ill put in some traps.

And the points go like this..
11illusion
5expertise (unused points)
11wilderness survival
11marksmanship

tuperwho · Apr 06, 2006, 08:03 PM // 20:03

There's the problem. Expertise does not affect spells. If you want to be a mesmer, be a mes. primary, with mes. runes and a good + energy staff. You're right that with what you have, expertise is worthless. But I don't think it's expertise that needs the overhaul...

To be constructive: the degen and epidemic idea is a pretty good one. Unfortunately, it won't spread conjure phantasm (hex, not condition). Also, with 11 in marks (I assume because you weild a bow), you need to be using more bow attacks, which will cost less energy because of expertise. Hunter's shot would do nicely. You'd get poison and bleeding to spread with epidemic. I would prob. trade out Clumsiness for this. You will be better off energy wise, and since you can use it more often, I think it will do more damage, too. Immagined burdon isn't really doing much for you in PvE. If you really want that role, try storm chaser. Again, it will be reduced by expertise. The other option is crippling shot, which will work well with epidemic. The sig. of cap shouldn't be a permanent in your bar either. Use it to get an elite, then keep that in your bar, except when you know you want to cap a new one. IMO, can't go wrong with barrage (again, reduced by expertise).

I hope you're using druids armor for the extra energy. My only other idea is if you want to stick with what you got, carry a staff with +15 energy and faster cast/recharge. Switch to the bow when you want to poison (poison arrow might do better than apply poison), but otherwise, use the caster weapon if you have a mostly caster build.

Bloodied Blade · Apr 06, 2006, 08:12 PM // 20:12

1st thing: Remove your capture signet.

Only bring a cap signet if you are actually going skill capping, otherwise it's pointless.

You should pull 1-2 points out of Wilderness Survival so that you deal max damage with your bow...

But seriously, no bow skills? If you're an interrupter, I would have thought something like:

Punishing Shot {e}
Distracting Shot
Savage Shot
Apply Poison (if you really want to have it, otherwise Read the Wind will serve you better)
Arcane Conundrum
Whirling Defense
Troll Unguent
Res Signet

Echo Ecko x · Apr 06, 2006, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Well what do you suggest I do with the build?

Echo Ecko x · Apr 06, 2006, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloodied Blade

1st thing: Remove your capture signet.

Only bring a cap signet if you are actually going skill capping, otherwise it's pointless.

You should pull 1-2 points out of Wilderness Survival so that you deal max damage with your bow...

But seriously, no bow skills? If you're an interrupter, I would have thought something like:

Punishing Shot {e}
Distracting Shot
Savage Shot
Apply Poison (if you really want to have it, otherwise Read the Wind will serve you better)
Arcane Conundrum
Whirling Defense
Troll Unguent
Res Signet

Well... I am about to go cap something, lol

Anyways.. I just bought the Me skills yesterday, so im just playing around with what i have. Well thanks tho, ill have to check that out

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuperwho

There's the problem. Expertise does not affect spells. If you want to be a mesmer, be a mes. primary, with mes. runes and a good + energy staff. You're right that with what you have, expertise is worthless. But I don't think it's expertise that needs the overhaul...

To be constructive: the degen and epidemic idea is a pretty good one. Unfortunately, it won't spread conjure phantasm (hex, not condition). Also, with 11 in marks (I assume because you weild a bow), you need to be using more bow attacks, which will cost less energy because of expertise. Hunter's shot would do nicely. You'd get poison and bleeding to spread with epidemic. I would prob. trade out Clumsiness for this. You will be better off energy wise, and since you can use it more often, I think it will do more damage, too. Immagined burdon isn't really doing much for you in PvE. If you really want that role, try storm chaser. Again, it will be reduced by expertise. The other option is crippling shot, which will work well with epidemic. The sig. of cap shouldn't be a permanent in your bar either. Use it to get an elite, then keep that in your bar, except when you know you want to cap a new one. IMO, can't go wrong with barrage (again, reduced by expertise).

I hope you're using druids armor for the extra energy. My only other idea is if you want to stick with what you got, carry a staff with +15 energy and faster cast/recharge. Switch to the bow when you want to poison (poison arrow might do better than apply poison), but otherwise, use the caster weapon if you have a mostly caster build.

Thats also a very good idea. Wow, I dont know what to do now!!

Lol, ill just have to experiment. Anything else you think should be added? Or any other specific changes? Any idea with runes and such? Weapon upgrades?

Hmm, maybe later ill just make a thread on my build and see what people say. oh well, thanks!

tuperwho · Apr 06, 2006, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Haven't put quite enough time into this, but think I got a pretty solid build. May have to change to a mesmer secondary to try it out

Marksmanship: 11+1+3=15
Wilderness survival: 11+1= 12
Expertise: 8+1

Favorable winds - so everything else hits, and gets more damage (see barrage)
apply poison
pin down
hunters shot
epidemic
barrage {E}
troll ungent
res sig.

Of course, this is an ideal, assuming you have or can get barrage. I would use druids armor, and a collectors (15^50) bow. Zealous and 5/1 vampiric will both do very nicely with barrage. Personally, I like defensive bow grips.

Megla Zero · Apr 06, 2006, 09:11 PM // 21:11

My personal opinion... if you have Barrage, you really shouldn't have any other bow skills except for maybe an interrupt... and most definitely not a prep. Pull out barrage for something else... and stick with the degen type of damage... it'll probably help out your team more in the long run than having to keep reapplying Apply Poison after a Barrage.

Also, the problem you run into when using FW (if you're not using a poison or Barrage build) is that the enemy archers gain the +6 damage and faster arrow speed as well, so although you're helping out your entire team from 1 spirit, you could also (potentially) be helping out multiple enemy forces. Not a big deal so long as you pay attention, but don't always be dropping spirits when you're getting ready to fight.

tuperwho · Apr 06, 2006, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Like I said, never tried anything like that before, and I was just throwing it together in a hurry. I did concider the prep with barrage, but I don't think it's too bad. Unlike kindle, ignite, etc., which rely on the prep being active for each hit, apply poison goes on autopilot. You use it, then pin down, then hunters, then epidemic. Normally, the benefit of apply poison is that you can hit multiple targets while it's still active. However, with epidemic, this is not needed. Thus, you have a mob all poisoned, and have littel use for apply poison until the poison duration ends. Thus, to me, it's not too terrible to use barrage. Yes, I'll admit that apply poison is expensive to only use for 2-3 arrows per mob, but I personally feel that you can get a better elite than poison arrow. Thus, I still hold that barrage is ok (aestheticlaly, I like the idea of AoE arrow attacks to go with the AoE degen from conditions + epidemic), but I would also assert that punishing shot would work well. How can you go wrong with big damage and interrupt?

And yes, FW is a bit of a gamble, but not so much so that it prevents its use.