Curse

Kurow · Apr 26, 2006, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Current Build:

Irresistable Blow
Escape [E] / Backbreaker [E]
Disrupting Lunge*
Tiger's Fury
Call of Haste
Troll Unguent
Charm Animal
Rez Signet

*Could be switched out for maiming easily, but I really like the ability to stop rez signets this easily. Also, who can argue with 5 en 5 second interrupt?

Now the older stuff...

I dream of making a great R/W build. Something different than any other already made. First though, I would like to hear input about the R/W's role in battle, and how effective they are globally, preferably with experience or stats as support.

If I am to make a R/W, chances are the only role it can play more effectively than just a W/* would have to be the hunter type. This means that, like warriors, you are planning on people not attacking you until the rest of your group is dead or dying.

This R/W will be able to sustain attack constantly, because of expertise, and the low cost of warrior skills. Even though they can consistently attack more ferociously than warrior primaries, they lack the strength attribute and the use of runes.

The first matter, the absence of strength, I am convinced is not as great a hinderance as one would think. I recall some research someone did about the effect of strength relative to the use of axe mastery, and the resulting damage. If I recall correctly, putting in strength had a much smaller effect than axe mastery, and the ratio of damage increase for axe mastery to strength was somewhere from 1:4 to 1:6 points in each to yeild the same increase in damage. I cannot find this site on guildwiki, the place it was posted, and I would appreciate it if someone posted it.

The second matter though, the lack of runes, does worry me. Since the ranger's damage output, if based on warrior skills, would be significantly lower than a warriors per hit.

Post any thoughts you have!

Build Currently in Progress:
(Probably something like a bunnythumper)

Skills First!

Staples:
Tiger's Fury
Irresistable Blow

Good Skills?
Hammer Bash + Crushing Blow *
Apply Poison (thats 8 dps right therr!)
Charm Animal + Call of Haste + Brutal Strike / Feral Lunge / Maiming Strike + Comfort Animal **
Rez Signet (who wouldnt?)
Troll Unguent
Escape [E]

Please add any to the list that I've missed.

To be honest I've never actually seen a bunny thumper build on the boards, so this might either resemble one a lot or be real crappy. Either way, warn me and I'll be sure to fix it adequately.

Comments?

Lady Lorwinia · Apr 26, 2006, 01:00 AM // 01:00

Well for the sustaining attack I would use

escape. In the expertise attribute,

Even though it is an elite imo it's worth it.

Now. The role an R/W takes on depends on what it's weilding. Hammer? Usually a bunny thumper.

Sword? Usually support. Hamstring, apply poison, watch yourself, shields up etc...

Axe... well most axe based skills use adrenaline so I usually go with Greater Justice and "to the limit"

That with tigers fury and apply poison. I get fast fast adrenaline and hit hard.

I usually go the tactics line for sword heavy damage.

Thrill of victory, desperation blow etc.. you can deal great damage and conditions.

I agree about strength. The only reason I mourn about that lost attribute is the fact that some of the skills in there are very very nice.

Most warriors can't keep up frenzy very long because of the double damage so that reduces their dps output considerably.

R/W's get the option of Tiger's Fury which allows them to keep up a constant 33% faster attack which almost matches up to the warrior.

That and the constant poison degen. I always manage to fit poison in on my R/W builds.

Best of luck I love R/W builds

Silent Elvin Ranger · Apr 26, 2006, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lorwinia

Sword? Usually support. Hamstring, apply poison, watch yourself, shields up etc...

A little off topic but can u use apply poison with sword?...so that when u attack with sword they get poisoned?

Kurow · Apr 26, 2006, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Yeah you can use apply poison on any weapon I think, atleast bows and melee weapons. Not sure about casters.

Anyway, I think the ranger/warrior would be best as a hammer type. The tiger's fury allows for almost constant attack speed increase, and who can say know to irresistable blow spam.

I guess its been decided that we're going hammer now, simply because it fits the role of hunter perfectly.

Now I think the build can start to be constructed. (It will go on in the first post.)

Iskrah · Apr 26, 2006, 03:17 AM // 03:17

The strength of a R/W is certainly in its ability to build up Adrenaline much faster than a W/* because of constant Tiger's Fury and as you said, its ability to spam attacks like no other. Here is my build when I feel like doing massive damage. Take it as a contribution to your own.

R/W Iskrah Ttalhan
Equipment:
1. Victo's Maul
2. Wand with 10% IAS and +5 energy from outside Nolani's Academy coupled with a Carapace Shield (45/-2 in stance). It can be used in some situations to build adrenaline.

Attributes:
10+1+3 Beast Mastery
12 Hammer
8+1 Expertise

1. Tiger's Fury. 11 seconds.
2. Irresistible Blow. +24 dmg, occasionnal knockdown, cannot be evaded.
3. Backbreaker. +16 dmg, knockdown of 4 seconds. It should be considered as some sort of Blackout that you can possibly apply as frequently.
4. Crushing Blow. +16, deep wound.
5. Brutal Strike. +33 AND +33 when target's life below 50% (important).
6. Call of Haste. 25% faster movement and attack rate of the pet.
7. Charm Animal.
8. Res signet.

3, 4, 5 works as a spike. It's fast enough to surprise monks.

Biggest problem? No self heal. Not like it's the only one.

Kurow · Apr 26, 2006, 03:27 AM // 03:27

I dont think a R/W can truely beat a warrior main at pure damage, but if you make it into a hunter type it can beat a warrior at that job. Thats why I put escape in, as it allows for a good 10 seconds of sustained running and evasion at the same time, and doesnt end prematurely.

Sab · Apr 26, 2006, 04:00 AM // 04:00

Hmm here's a little idea for a Sword R/W, combo Thrill of Victory + Brutal Strike + Final Thrust for a HUGE spike?

SnipiousMax · Apr 26, 2006, 04:51 AM // 04:51

Wild blow is a good one to add.

Iskrah · Apr 26, 2006, 04:56 AM // 04:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuxA

Hmm here's a little idea for a Sword R/W, combo Thrill of Victory + Brutal Strike + Final Thrust for a HUGE spike?

That's interesting, but you have to put points in Tactics for Thrill of Victory... And I fear it may be redundant. But I'll be sure to try it out.

Sab · Apr 26, 2006, 05:36 AM // 05:36

Since it's a sword build, you'll probably put some points in Tactics to meet the requirement for your shield. I'm guessing Galrath would work better than Thrill though, since it's unconditional +damage and linked to Sword (which you'll have at ~11-12).

Kurow · Apr 26, 2006, 06:09 AM // 06:09

A sword just plain doesnt do as much damage as a hammer though. Ive been playing with the build I posted and it seems quite good... I would love to put in brutal strike, but it costs 10 energy, and really destroys my energy management. Also, I faced a mes group in team arenas, comprising of mes primary and secondaries, and I found that I couldnt make any progress against them, even damage-wise. The game took atleast 8 minutes for them to degen and SS us to death, but I wonder about the effectiveness if I cant even bring the monk below half health. Against everyone else I fought this build took names though.

NatalieD · Apr 26, 2006, 06:16 AM // 06:16

What do you mean by "hunter"?

Iskrah · Apr 26, 2006, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurow

A sword just plain doesnt do as much damage as a hammer though. Ive been playing with the build I posted and it seems quite good... I would love to put in brutal strike, but it costs 10 energy, and really destroys my energy management. Also, I faced a mes group in team arenas, comprising of mes primary and secondaries, and I found that I couldnt make any progress against them, even damage-wise. The game took atleast 8 minutes for them to degen and SS us to death, but I wonder about the effectiveness if I cant even bring the monk below half health. Against everyone else I fought this build took names though.

I don't get what you mean by hunter type either. And I guarantee you'll hurt a monk really bad if you use my Backbreaker build as he'll be silent for 4 seconds regularly.
Brutal Strike is messing up your energy management? How so? What about expertise? It should be fine, with a cost of 6 at 9 expertise...

Kurow · Apr 26, 2006, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Hunter- I heard it some where and it stuck, like going after softies, like warriors are supposed to in PvP. Not focusing so much on defense... well not at all.

If youre using brutal strike ever 5 seconds, irresistable blow every 4 seconds, and tiger's fury every 10 seconds... Thats a total of atleast 24 energy every 10 seconds you're goin all out. Without druids thats just shy of all the energy you have. With 3 pips of regen, youll be getting back 1 energy per second, so with brutal strike it is hardly maintainable.

pi!!ow · Apr 26, 2006, 05:12 PM // 17:12

You're looking way too deep into your hunter-ranger idealogy.

You mentioned that you would be a less than primary target in battle. Why pack Escape then? It is an elite stance; and for good reason: a 75% evasion chance as well as run speed bonus.

You mentioned support skills. Leave that to your monk and take something along that will expedite your kill. (Ferocious Strike {e} for instance).

Good and heavy pressure (not to mention with knockdown) always overcomes a skittish wannabe ninja any day.

Iskrah · Apr 26, 2006, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurow

If youre using brutal strike ever 5 seconds, irresistable blow every 4 seconds, and tiger's fury every 10 seconds... Thats a total of atleast 24 energy every 10 seconds you're goin all out. Without druids thats just shy of all the energy you have. With 3 pips of regen, youll be getting back 1 energy per second, so with brutal strike it is hardly maintainable.

When can you go "all out" like that? We're not fighting barrels...

Kurow · Apr 26, 2006, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iskrah

When can you go "all out" like that? We're not fighting barrels...

When cant you go all out like that? Unless your target is running, you will be able to do that quite consistently. I think it would be beneficial to use the skills as often as possible, to maximize effectiveness. Dont you? Therefor, a skill that may do more damage conditionally, but cannot be used as much would be worse than a skill that does a little less damage and can be used much more consistantly, for greater effect, yes?

About the escape thing, youre right, I only used it once really, and that it wasnt to chase after someone. I think that it would be best replaced with back breaker. Comments?

SnipiousMax · Apr 26, 2006, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurow

Therefor, a skill that may do more damage conditionally, but cannot be used as much would be worse than a skill that does a little less damage and can be used much more consistantly, for greater effect, yes?

That's the general reason you use a R/W over a W/R. You can spam 5 energy skills pretty much constantly, making your damage output greater. You're out to pressure the other team rather than spike them to death. If you wanted a spiker, a W/R will out preform a R/W generally.

Since you're using Melee, you NEED some sort of speed boost skill. Escape is better than dodge, so I'd still pick that over Backbreaker.

Kurow · Apr 27, 2006, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Well... I dont really know which to pick. I mean I can pack on the damage without backbreaker, but it does offer a 4 second knockdown, and thats a lot of time to be kickin some caster ass. Yet escape still serves the same purpose, as it lets me chase after the caster if they are kiting. This needs some thinking through.

Alright... Four seconds of knockdown after 10 strikes of adrenaline. 10 strikes is a lot to get, especially if your target is running away from you... I think in this case escape is better because it has multiple uses, even though you cant TF while you're chasing people, atleast you can still hit them. I suppose I could use maiming strike instead of either. I think I will still go with escape though. It gives a lot of run time, while recharging quite fast, and it gives you evasion also.

I'll put escape / backbreaker up at the top.