Curse

Canadian Bacon · Apr 28, 2006, 12:27 AM // 00:27

I have been playing my MM necro all day, and I have decided to stop calling the update to Minion Mastery a "nerf" and just go with "update".

Here's why:

1) 10 Minion Limit is actually not sucha bad thing; your 11th minion replaces the weakest member of your previous army of 10. So, by continually casting as you would hae before the update, you constantly rejuvenate your army. You end up with 10 fit-as-a-fiddle minions instead of 20 body-blocking, space occupying, and (most importantly) dieing minions.

2) Blood of the Master now affects all of your minions, not just the ones around you. This is much more convenient.

3) Ok, even I find it hard to justify the double pounding on Verata's Sacrifice. However, I do enjoy the feature about 3 or less = instand recharge. Quite handy at times.

So, there it is, my logic, in all its glory. I have been playing by this logic all day, and I have found no problems with it. Feel free to pick this apart amongst yourselves (or defend it, that would definitely be cool too) to your heart's content. I won't heed a word of it

quickmonty · Apr 28, 2006, 12:35 AM // 00:35

Haven't had a chance to play my MM yet today, but had thoughts along the same line.

10 minions isn't all that bad, especially if they are replaced with fresh ones.

Didn't know that they buffed BotM. Sounds good.

With the nerf (for lack of better term) on Verata's, you can still keep 3minions up between battles. If one of those happens to be that new elite, now that is sweet.

Thanks for the report

Canadian Bacon · Apr 28, 2006, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

Haven't had a chance to play my MM yet today, but had thoughts along the same line.

10 minions isn't all that bad, especially if they are replaced with fresh ones.

Didn't know that they buffed BotM. Sounds good.

With the nerf (for lack of better term) on Verata's, you can still keep 3minions up between battles. If one of those happens to be that new elite, now that is sweet.

Thanks for the report

Thx for the kind words

BTW has anyone posted up a thread about the enw asian gwen? I'm gona go ahead and do that.

Fargin Scotchsman · Apr 28, 2006, 12:47 AM // 00:47

with the "buff" of botm, they also added a higher hp cost. second, vs lasts for max of 15 sec, that means, unless u got echo, ect. u got 45sec of spammin botm til u get to more corpses, and unless u got self heal or monk willin to heal u, u screwd. personally, i enjoyed havin 15-20 mini tanks body lockin monsters so they cudnt get to me, plus, u didnt need a tank fo missions, and since there are many idiot tanks out there, i consider that a good thing. i despise this "update," and personally do consider it a nerf.

.killjoy · Apr 28, 2006, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Yea making BoTM helps alot when if effects all of you minions not just area.

kaldak · Apr 28, 2006, 01:08 AM // 01:08

It hadnt occured to me till now, but when you have 10 minions up and highish soul reaping creating a new minion will give you back a significant amount of your energy instantly. I'd still prefer a massive army, and energy was never a great concern for me in the first place, but at least its something...

(10 fiends up; SR=10)
enemy dies: +10 energy
animate fiend: -25 energy
old fiend instantly dies: +10 energy

with horrors or bone minions you'd actually have a positive net energy.

hunter · Apr 28, 2006, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by .killjoy

Yea making BoTM helps alot when if effects all of you minions not just area.

It also makes for your monk have a less boring time in tombs since now he would be healing TWO necros instead of one all the time.

Solberg the Exiled · Apr 28, 2006, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Well...I guess it's not that bad if your new minion replace the one at the lowest health. Sitll though, Verata's was still completely nerfed. I still say, just get rid of the fac that minions degen naturally and then I'd be okay with this uipdate.

unholy guardian · Apr 28, 2006, 02:15 AM // 02:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solberg the Exiled

Well...I guess it's not that bad if your new minion replace the one at the lowest health. Sitll though, Verata's was still completely nerfed. I still say, just get rid of the fac that minions degen naturally and then I'd be okay with this uipdate.

then they would have to work like spirits and die in 90 seconds, they could just make them live a little longer though idk, i havnt done much with an mm in a while

Canadian Bacon · Apr 28, 2006, 03:31 AM // 03:31

The minions themselves seem different to me. Before, I could never dream of 10 minions lasting as long as mine have today. I don't know if maybe their degen is a tad slower, or maybe they do more damage so bodies pop faster, or maybe I'm just imagining things.

I took a stab at the Foreign Quarter mission earlier. Unfortunately it was bugged and we couldn't finish. My point is that, as someone said before, I had absolutely no energy problems. Most times I had at least 5 up, and we basically steamrolled it until the glitch. I never ran low on energy, and I always had an army at my disposal.

Veron · Apr 28, 2006, 04:59 AM // 04:59

But correct me if I'm wrong, BotM with 10 minions is a 25% health sac. It's not really a skill you can throw around too much.

Ellena · Apr 28, 2006, 05:29 AM // 05:29

I think that ocne we get the new skils and play aroudn with the changes that we'll find thigns arent as bad as we feared. now, it'll take adaption, which takes time, but my first thought is to adapt the 55 necro build for this somehow...

Minion necros aren't targets normally ( they never attack directly and such and with the new botm ranges can stand WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY back to prevent aggro...)

I'll play aroudn with it wish I had a golem btu I'll test the basics in a lower level area to see hwo ti feels)

alpha ver of 55hp minionmancer shoudl look a bti like...

death 16
blodo 11
soulk reaping 11

blood renewal
offerign of blood (elite. yeah flesh golem si elite, btu I dotn have oen yet, so might as well take the energy...)
summon horror( for emergencys and for energy abuse as mentioned
sumon fiends (main army)
botm ( spam time...)
death nova ( might as well)
res signet
optional ( veratas... maybe...)

gear:
standard 55 fare except with max death isntead of curses). wand should be death appropriate, too obviously.

ther'es no ps,e tc.. you CAN do that if you want, btu the point here is to stay far abck and summon minions;spam botm to keep them alive. with the low energy costs fo botm and multipel eneergy tricks, you shoudl eb abel to heal yoru miniosn wodnerfully...

this is a really quick.dirty build untested, but it's intended to shwo that there's potential in the changes. the VS nerf was too much ( especially on top of th eminion limit... there was jsut no need for it the limti ascomplished it..), btu I'm stille xcited abotu the minion possabilitys.

nightrunner · Apr 28, 2006, 05:32 AM // 05:32

I'd be worried about a 55 MM - if they die, not only do you have rezzing problems like with a 55 monk, but you have the minions attacking you.

Ellena · Apr 28, 2006, 07:46 AM // 07:46

well after playigng with ti briefly it works, though elss well than I'd hoped and yeah.. only in zoens where the mobs are predictable. still, it migth be useful ocne in a while

skreet preacha · Apr 28, 2006, 12:08 PM // 12:08

yes, MMing hasnt been nerfed, but it does suck compared to how it used to be.

1. 10? 20? well, i'd sill MUCH rather raise an army of 30-40 minions with ease as i used to, than struggle to keep an army of 15-20 alive now. (read my post about the 10 thing, lol... i'll have to screenshot a pic for yall)

2. yep, thats true about BoTM, but it still sucks since the sac is tied to ur minion account, and is a big reason why u simply cant raise a larger army than 15-20, or u'll suicide with BoTM. the sole purpose of MMing has always been to raise as many strong minions as possible and keep them alive as long as possible. that core purpose has been severely "updated" in a bad way.

3. i guess, lol, but when do you have less than 3 minions? like .5 percent of ur time? i mean, u gonna raise much more than 3 with or without the instant recharge, so its kinda pointless to me. :-P

Evilsod · Apr 28, 2006, 12:50 PM // 12:50

I still find the awesome RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO up with the MM armour and VS change amusing. What was it? 1 of them gives you a bonus with 3 or more minions, 1 instantly recharges with less than 4. So basically the MM armour is possibly the single worst armour in the game now the ele armours been given a little boost.

I like the guild wars Lore things, Veratis been a powerful MM now has his name attached to the worst MM skills i have ever seen.

Emik · Apr 28, 2006, 01:04 PM // 13:04

I'm sorry to say to all peeps that think that MM'ing hasn't been nerfed.

Having and maintaining over 30 minions was what seperated the elite MM's from the noobs that tried to copy it.
With how they done it now everyone can become a MM and even sucky ones will have a go at it and get credit for a task they couldn't fullfill at first.
I've been in several missions, quests where i was the MM and had an army of +30.
Others tried it and barely had 5 at a time.
Again... the counter measures (coz apparently this is the reason why they nerfed it) are so damn easy. Kill the MM and they go berserk.

Still not convinced.
MM'ing imo still is nerfed.

Arkantos · Apr 28, 2006, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Well 10 minions is nothing compared to what the good MM's had, but 10's better then 5

VS is nerfed, but BotM affects all minions, so now you just need a monk that'll heal you alot.

Cirian · Apr 28, 2006, 04:35 PM // 16:35

So, anyone else tried Aura of the Lich, Blood Renewal and DARK AURA with the spammable sac / minion heals? Ooh, I think I'm in love

The bone minions are energy management at only 15 energy to create 2 - with 11 Soul Reaping, you'll get 22 energy back when they both die - and I've been using Death Nova and Taste of Death more with them too. On top of being an aura bomber + minion master in one

More experimenting to do!

bobrath · Apr 28, 2006, 05:04 PM // 17:04

no!!!! they nerfed MMs!!!! you just can't be succesful as a necro anymore with the death line.