Curse

bobrath · Apr 28, 2006, 03:09 AM // 03:09

Yes... if only you resized the image so it was actually viewable and didn't make every sentence a scroll bar nightmare.

sopexc · Apr 28, 2006, 04:07 AM // 04:07

wow first my second accnt gets deleted with my near perfect fellblade on it now this, this is jus too much nerfing the shit out of everything this is the final i for one will not buy factions now thas jus too much for me to bear

Xpl0iter · Apr 28, 2006, 05:43 AM // 05:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopexc

wow first my second accnt gets deleted with my near perfect fellblade on it now this, this is jus too much nerfing the shit out of everything this is the final i for one will not buy factions now thas jus too much for me to bear

Just like every one else, i will give you a piece of advice. Switch your character like i had to when i was nerfed. Play something else if you can't handle, or deal with your character when i forced my self to play my favourite profession. Any game has nerfs coming and going. Question is, can you handle further nerfs against your will? if not, i suggest you start searching for another game. This is not the end of the world for you my friend.

Regardz

Thallandor · Apr 28, 2006, 08:28 AM // 08:28

If you are gonna nerf MMs with the 10 minons limit, AT LEAST IMPROVE MINON TARGETING FFS... maybe thats the fix since you wont have much minons around to click *sighs*

MMing is actually one of the fun builds to play. I wonder what are we playing for nowadays?

Valkyries · Apr 28, 2006, 08:46 AM // 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xpl0iter

Just like every one else, i will give you a piece of advice. Switch your character like i had to when i was nerfed. Play something else if you can't handle, or deal with your character when i forced my self to play my favourite profession. Any game has nerfs coming and going. Question is, can you handle further nerfs against your will? if not, i suggest you start searching for another game. This is not the end of the world for you my friend.

Regardz

QFT my man!

I was going to post something similar but you pretty much beat me to it.

Honestly, the only thing I see is 7 pages or people crying and whinning about a few skills that the limited. (Yes I don't care if I get flamed)

Yes, they nurfed MM. Last time I checked the name is called Guild Wars.. meaning they probably don't want you to solo exceptionally hard missions, they probably want you to have a balanced group and try to finish it. Its not like they completely destroyed MM like most of you are making it out. OMFG, now Im going to have to play with a team, and I can't solo, and I can only have 10 minions. Seriously suck it up... do you think MM is the only class that they nerfed? Have you never ever played any other MMORPG games? If you don't like this, go play World of Warcraft. I've love to see that. You think this is a nerf! HA! Ask a Warlock how he liked his damage going from 5500 Crits to 1800 crits.

Back on topic, if you really don't like it you have a couple choices. First, go roll another character. They just created two brand new ones so go pick up and play it. The other is go buy another game and start playing it. No one (especailly not ANet) really cares if 5 people don't buy factions because they nerfed MM. Personally I don't even really think its that bad. Keep in mind I am a NECRO as well.... but whatever. If I don't want to do MM, Ill just switch over to Curses. There is no problem. I just hate to see the people whine and cry because they can't go solo the UW. Gimme a break!! Personally, I've played a TON of other MMORPGS and by far Guild Wars is the most balanced. ANet is just trying to keep it that way. Besides you have no idea what would happen in Cantha with 27 minions running around. Maybe it would be completely unbalanced for the new classes and they wanted to correct it. No one really knows... but regardless I don't see the big deal.

Flame away.

xenoranger · Apr 28, 2006, 12:46 PM // 12:46

Ok, here's the nerf in a nutshell.

10 Minions Max

Verata's Sacrifice has a 60 sec recharge, but recharges instantly if you have 3 or less minions.

Blood of the Master costs 5% + 2% for each minion and is still AOE healing. (Max 25% sacrifice w/ 10 minions)

So....
You're rewarded for having less minions and punished for maxing out.

Horrors and Fiends are now a liability more than a plus, and VHorrors and Minions are the way to go.

If you use 3 VHorrors and Verata's Sacrifice, you can keep them around for a while and the health regained isn't shabby (7-17 vs 100 armor).

Minions are 2 for 1 corpse still, so 5 corpses and you max out, but you can use them as a mini-zerg. Also, Soul Reaping ensures that when they die, you have the ability to replace them. With a cost of 15 for Minions, SR of 8 means you superceded the requirement with both die.

Horrors and Fiends are only useful if you use Blood of the Master instead of Verata's Sacrifice.Damage hasn't changed on them, but you still have all the negatives. Horrors still cost 15 and fiends 25. Fiends are almost worthless (from what I can see) b/c of the high cost, although the recharge is less than VHorrors.

Plausable reasons for the number nerf:

Canthan Streets are so small, more than 10 would conjest the streets and make advancement difficult.
Minion Factory Build
Minion Farming

I'm still upset with how minions are reduced, but I've found some workable uses.

skreet preacha · Apr 28, 2006, 01:39 PM // 13:39

lol the high cost? err, what type of energy problems can u run into only trying to raise 10 Fiends? they are the damage dealers, so i only raise them now.... and just FYI, BoTM was never AOE, it was only "adjacent" before, and not sure if its AOE now, cuz it heals them suckers FAR off, i'll have to look to see if some are in my bubble or not next time.

Ka RaTae · Apr 28, 2006, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by NinjaKai

No one can blame ANet because it's not their fault that people lack the creativity to get of their behinds and make a build.

Ok...that has to be the dumbest assement I have ever heard.

Nigel Strange · Apr 28, 2006, 02:31 PM // 14:31

There is a reason for the whining: if the game developers find that they have made enough people unhappy, perhaps they will make a concession. Maybe they'll throw us a bone.

The real problem I see with nerfing is not the individual nerf, but the fact that it punishes innovation. Think of all the hours people spend working out a killer build, then the devs find out and they say "Ah hah! You thought you could outsmart us by using our own rules (against whom?) so now we're going to punish your intelligence by taking away your new powers!" Oh, and the rest of us lose our stuff too.

If you were running a school, would you praise children for being ahead of the curve or would you insist the school change its rules so that no kids are allowed to get ahead? Now it doesn't seem so much like empty whining, does it? What if there was a "No child gets ahead" plan?

Ka RaTae · Apr 28, 2006, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xpl0iter

There are countless people i could easily go and prove wrong, which is not even funny. People who are crying about this nerf, realized the time when other professions got nerfed and they were passively buffed because they were left as the major damage dealers of entire game? Let me tell you why you are crying out loud right now. Just like once eles ( including my self ) cried. We were major damage dealers. An army of One. Someone said Oh Necros are so fragile, and this and that. You think someone can pass through so many minnions easily and kill a necro at first place? Being one man army is all we want. And when we are pushed towards being balanced, we cry. I feel buffed in long time as elemental. Even though i held a minnion master, and nearly found SS and other stuff a Joke for my usage in terms of efficiency and hard times, i stoped playing necros. They made me feel cheap. MM always had a better life than any of us. Every team wanted an MM in their build. Now, they will get other professions along with MM to support them, what is so bad about the game being balanced? Think for a moment, if you were on the oposite end of an Alliance battle with a person in oposite team, holding 40 minnions, what would u do ? go and kill him? or try to prove how cool he is? You would hate him for him being so over powered. At this point, an MM can't solo no more with minnions in missions, which seems much balanced to me. For the person who said MM are fragile, how do you solo if they are so fragile? I know exactly how it feels to be on the wrong side of nerf hammer, and guys, accept it. Just like we eles did, for possibly the longest time of this game. We were nerfed to the grounds, and barrage teams just rocked on the back of an MM to tank for them. Now, Tactics are required, and Playing MM is not that easy since you do not hold the entire mission/farming area in your palm.
Live with this. Just like we all are living through nerfs, watching our favourite professions getting nerfed to ground. Every profession rises after the nerf, but takes time. Till then, Good Game To all of You.
It is time that you MMs should stop thinking like once we eles did of ourselves in this game, which was.. Superior. We both are balanced now, As much as an Ele needs you to block foes from him while dishing out the damage, you need an ele to start creating large piles of corpses for you in PVE. And in some places, Alliance battles type PVP too. Mind you, i am not saying other professions dont kill. What i mean to say is, eles are passively buffed by this nerf, and we both can play on equal terms now.

Regardz
An Elementalist.

GREAT POINT...not.

All ANET is doing is making this game lamer and lamer. At the rate they are going pretty soon it will turn into Sacred. Ohh boy that sounds like fun.

Ka RaTae · Apr 28, 2006, 02:42 PM // 14:42

I will say that I will miss the hordes, but the change to VS means...you can now keep a Flesh Golem at +10 Pips regen constantly. And since you have the Minion ICon...you will instanly know if he dies if there are sevral MM's controlling Golems. As far as Vamp Horrors go..my opinion on them is that they suck. Their recast is too long and they don't do enough damage versus a level 20 or higher to be considered any major source of healing, all though with 75% reduction from Dark Aura the heals they supply may be enough..not sure haven't tested it all.

Ka RaTae · Apr 28, 2006, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by skreet preacha

lol the high cost? err, what type of energy problems can u run into only trying to raise 10 Fiends? they are the damage dealers, so i only raise them now.... and just FYI, BoTM was never AOE, it was only "adjacent" before, and not sure if its AOE now, cuz it heals them suckers FAR off, i'll have to look to see if some are in my bubble or not next time.

I beleive it is like Heal Party now...Radar Range.

suiraCLAW · Apr 28, 2006, 03:03 PM // 15:03

in my opinion: the whole death magic skill line needs a buff.

I mean: there are only 2 exploit skills worth it (fiend & horror), but for some reason ANET nerfed them. In other words: there are somewhat no usefull exploit skills at all anymore.

Some suggestions:
-give putroid 100% chance of hitting a foe at all (like this: spell, nearest corpse is exploited, target foe and all foe's adjacent to that foe take 30-120 dark dmg)
-change the limit of total minions into a limit of one kind of minion (giving you the ability to run like 7 fiends and 7 horrors), this would prevent meat walls, and insane dmg/health from fiends/vamp horrors.
-rework VS completely + give us a better limit (like: for 2-20 secs, all undead allies gain 1 health regen (max 10) for every 20 secs they were alive. same recharge etc)

BTW: about alliance battles, there are hundred and one ways to kill those minions without problems. (sig of creation, aoe dmg, ray of judgement, barrage, verata aura, traps, etc etc etc)

Sky Breaker · Apr 28, 2006, 04:28 PM // 16:28

personal thought: If this overall nerf is ment to balance the game in terms of PvP as a whole, they should simply have built in limitations to the PvP parts of the game and leave the PvE alone, or if to discourage farming simply introduce more smiting/nuking creatures into maps overfarmed by MMs? (honestly i doubt the latter reason would be the case, what people dont realize is that Anet doesnt really mind farming in small amounts because putting more items into the game market lowers the overall cost people put out for them, and in the end it benefits new and old players alike, and to be completely honest there are too few places specifically farmed by MMs for this to be a viable reason for such brutality)

Cirian · Apr 28, 2006, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by suiraCLAW

in my opinion: the whole death magic skill line needs a buff.

Are we playing the same game? O.o I was having a great time as a death necro last night! I guess the problem is when you get a taste for being overpowered, it's hard to get used to just being powerful - we still rock imo

I think the whole 30 fiends thing was... yeah, a bit too good =) In a few weeks there'll be new builds and new tactics, and as someone who has every Tyrian necro skill on his necro (and I switch around a lot and experiment with my skills), I'm really not fazed by the changes... actually I'm more concerned about getting my Grand Master Cartographer title!

Peace

Fred Kiwi · Apr 28, 2006, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenoranger

It's like this....
Minions are already a pain to upkeep, but it was an art. Now, it's punishment for using them. Sure, Vamp Horrors are good for life transference, but how can you honestly say that it's a good thing to have MM's punished because other people didn't know how to dispose of minions?

It's just ANet catering to PvP'ers who whine b/c they're too dumb to learn about their opponents.

exactly. hopefully if we wine enough they'll change it back.

I just want to say again that there are skills that OWN a mm - barrage/cyclone+JI - EOE - signet of creation (with the help of kiting) - various fire magic spells (with a tank) - veratas aura/gaze - probably more

Unchain · Apr 28, 2006, 04:57 PM // 16:57

A well laid Edge of Extinction and a well placed Meteor Shower would annihlate an entire army, the MM was weak in PvP already. Honestly, I have never seen a Minion Factory group win or hold halls. It was just too easy to destroy.

kaldak · Apr 28, 2006, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ka RaTae

I will say that I will miss the hordes, but the change to VS means...you can now keep a Flesh Golem at +10 Pips regen constantly. And since you have the Minion ICon...you will instanly know if he dies if there are sevral MM's controlling Golems. As far as Vamp Horrors go..my opinion on them is that they suck. Their recast is too long and they don't do enough damage versus a level 20 or higher to be considered any major source of healing, all though with 75% reduction from Dark Aura the heals they supply may be enough..not sure haven't tested it all.

If you're just going death for a Flesh Golem, I'm pretty sure you'd be more effective as a Beast Master. Sure you dont get a lvl 26 ally, but there are lots of ways to boost a pet's damage and protection.

bobrath · Apr 28, 2006, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Once again... perhaps this was because of the PvE minion masters and had little to do with the PvP aspect....

bobrath · Apr 28, 2006, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaldak

If you're just going death for a Flesh Golem, I'm pretty sure you'd be more effective as a Beast Master. Sure you dont get a lvl 26 ally, but there are lots of ways to boost a pet's damage and protection.

Can you transfer conditions and hits to a pet?
Do you get energy when a pet dies?
Do all your skills stay available when your pet dies?