Curse

Jetdoc · Apr 27, 2006, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trin Storm

I think that would be the point of the nerf - it was never intended that someone could solo a mission.

Yes, only us PvE'ers with some degree of skill and ingenuity should be able to solo missions.

MasterThrawn · Apr 27, 2006, 06:17 PM // 18:17

I am SO glad I did not buy Bortak's Claw for 80k. I'll just keep using my collector's Truncheon - until I hear MM's are still viable that is... This makes me very sad. 10 is a low number - those that controlled big armies know this - Now 30 Max - that would be OK. Although that would still not be enough...

blue cheez · Apr 27, 2006, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobrath

Its always transferred all negative conditions to the MM...

Yes the timing changes will affect MMs, but not as much as the death magic limit on summon counts. Note that they improved BoTM to offset the VS change.

Its not so bad, just a reduction to the size of MM armies (but with more powerful summons is that so bad?)

Your wrong, they arent any stronger....and blood of the master requires too much energy and casting time to matenience. The elite MM spell added is bull btw, as its just a weak pet w/ high energy costs.

If they dont fix this-they'll find that alot people ARENT gettting the new games, because they keep on nerfing the previous ones. They are freaking gay.

Ensign · Apr 27, 2006, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Maybe, just maybe - they made this update because of PvE.

Just throwing that out there.

Peace,
-CxE

xenoranger · Apr 27, 2006, 06:23 PM // 18:23

I was very used to a zerg of 30 + minions (talking fiends, horrors, or whatever). Even in southern shiver peaks (when I had a good group).

They just totally screwed up one of the most useful/time saving builds in the game. Why can't ANet leave well enough alone. It's not like an MM can just rule. There are anti-MM skills and long casting times to keep MM's in check. This whole thing just sucks.

We should all mail bomb ANet with complaints until they fix it.

Hello Kitty · Apr 27, 2006, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by .killjoy

Everything is getting nerfed...

Did you see the update notes? They buffed a lot more stuff than they nerfed. Even the minion nerf isn't that bad. Blood of the Master got a huge buff and the new Minion Masters armor seems a lot better than it was in the FPE.

I dunno... I just leveled an MM to 20, and the class was strictly ridiculous. Toning it down a little bit isn't going to hurt me at all, and now I will be able to roll with +15 armor a lot of the time.

AND OMGZ FLARE ACTUALLY LOOKS G

D NOW! I wanna try a fire ele...

xenoranger · Apr 27, 2006, 06:32 PM // 18:32

We'll see.

It soundling like Diablo II (which I've been playing for a while now) where you need items to make builds work. If that's the case, then only those with the best gear will be able to make certain builds work. Hardly fair (IMO).

So, what next? Sup RUn of MM or some crap like that?

blue cheez · Apr 27, 2006, 06:35 PM // 18:35

I think we can conclude from this that EVERYONE IS PISSED AT THE NEW NERFING OF MINIONS. And the guild wars community will all be obset as a whole if they dont decide to quickly change the destruction of Minion Masters. The whole point of the skill balance is to make things more fair. But if people have found a good combonation of skills to allow farming and PvE'ing to be easier, so what!? This just shows that Anet doesnt nerf things that people find unfair, they just nerf things that people use too much... All this did was make Necromancers an even weaker profession in PvE, and continues to give Minion-Master PvP'er even less of a chance of having success at PvP.

Also, with all the complaints from the entire Guild Wars community, if they choose not to change the NERF they made on Minion Masters-It shows how they REALLY DONT CARE about the Guild Wars forums and communities! So many people have recognised how UNFAIR and unbalanced it is, therefore they are obliged to change this.

blue cheez · Apr 27, 2006, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hello Kitty

Did you see the update notes? They buffed a lot more stuff than they nerfed. Even the minion nerf isn't that bad. Blood of the Master got a huge buff and the new Minion Masters armor seems a lot better than it was in the FPE.

I dunno... I just leveled an MM to 20, and the class was strictly ridiculous. Toning it down a little bit isn't going to hurt me at all, and now I will be able to roll with +15 armor a lot of the time.

AND OMGZ FLARE ACTUALLY LOOKS G

D NOW! I wanna try a fire ele...

1. They threw away Verata's Sacrifice. It only allows you to keep your minions of 4 or more alive for 1/6th of the time...thus it being useless.

2. Blood of the Master forces a person to spend all your energy and health constantly healing the minion.

3. NO ONE HAD A PROBLEM WITH MINION MASTERS. WHY THE RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO DO YOU NERF IT. IF YOU ARE GOING TO NERF SOMETHING, NERF IWAY.

4. If they just nerf anything that is useful and players use alot, why dont you just get rid of the tanking system!?! EVERYONE IN PVE HAS A TANK, THEREFORE ITS UNFAIR!!! You should have it that Warriors can no longer pull argo, and nukers and damage dealers cant do shit!

^THAT IS EXACTLY HOW STUPID THIS ENTIRE NERF IS.^
Just because something is used successfully, doesnt mean you should nerf it.

5. MINION MASTERS WERENT UNFAIR, IF YOU WANT TO MAKE MINION MASTERS TO BE WEAKER IN ALLIANCE BATTLES, THEN YOU SHOULD MAKE VERATA'S AURA AND GAZE STRONGER! If you want to stop the minion masters, you can just spike kill him, IT'S THAT SIMPLE!!!!

xenoranger · Apr 27, 2006, 06:51 PM // 18:51

The problem is that necros are already a weak class. If you look at it, a single necro can't go up against anything by themself. Not unless it was in presearing or just a stupid AI. I have yet to see a necro primary that fairs well against a warrior or anything. (at least, wihtout minions)

I totally agree, who cares what's done in teh field, just so long as it's not unbalancing PvP.

I have a friend saying that in larger battles, MM's were dominating. That's bull----. The Master is still weak.Plus, you transfer conditions to and from yoru minions as well as use them to defray damage.

Limited life span, plus the necro must sacrifice constantly to keep the minions alive. It's not like MMing even in PvP is soemthing that would tip the scales.

Minions can be stolen (Verata'a Gaze/Aura) and they can be hurt with holy damage. This just makes no sense why they'd use such a nerf.

FreeFall · Apr 27, 2006, 06:55 PM // 18:55

The problem that I see is with the -1 energy thing. I don't run a pure MM build, mine is a mix of minions and damage support spells. I'm always starved for energy, so this seems like it's really gonna kill me. I guess time will tell.

xenoranger · Apr 27, 2006, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Cheese... I can't believe they're throw away Verata's Sacrifice entirely... that's just wrong

Yes, totally agree that to balance it, they should make Verata's Gaze and Aura stronger. IMO, Verata's Aura should be a -1 to energy recovery, but allow anti-MM's to keep the minions forever that are tied to them.

Blood of the Master sucked. You can't heal anything with that. The minions hold as still as my 2 year old when it's picture time. Say cheese, well, no, they move around and you never get to heal your minions at all. They usually run off. At least Sacrifice used to allow you to heal them further out adn while they're moving/attacking/whatever. Plus Sacrifice put you at a disadvantage, I'd always pick up bleeding, poison, and other conditions from my minions b/c of it.

Honestly...
It's not longer Guild Wars, it's Nerfed Wars.

(Off Topic: Even the 55 Monk nerf was dumb b/c you can easily kill a 55 by stripping enchantments... Duh. I guess stupid players were having trouble figuring that out)

xenoranger · Apr 27, 2006, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreeFall

The problem that I see is with the -1 energy thing. I don't run a pure MM build, mine is a mix of minions and damage support spells. I'm always starved for energy, so this seems like it's really gonna kill me. I guess time will tell.

It's like this....
Minions are already a pain to upkeep, but it was an art. Now, it's punishment for using them. Sure, Vamp Horrors are good for life transference, but how can you honestly say that it's a good thing to have MM's punished because other people didn't know how to dispose of minions?

It's just ANet catering to PvP'ers who whine b/c they're too dumb to learn about their opponents.

Mistah Magik · Apr 27, 2006, 07:03 PM // 19:03

well there is gonna be an elite skill for MMs to make Flesh Golems

The New Guy · Apr 27, 2006, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Very Unnecessary Nerfing on MM's.

One thing I'd like to say first is WOW! Second is WTF??

I seriously would like to know a small reason from anet why they did this. If that's possible. I mean, the MM build isn't overpowering in the first place! And that's for PvE and PvP. I tried this just right now in TPK and sucks like hell. 10 Minions are probably more than enough, but to maintain them....it's freaking ridiculous! For having 10 Minions on the battle field, you sac s--tload of your HP just to use BotM and to top it all of, if you have more than 3 Minions, Veratas Sac's rechagre is 60 sec??? WOW!!!

Anyways, I'm sure one of you will find another build to help maintain 10 Minions w/o using useless spells like VS and BotM.

Vahn Roi · Apr 27, 2006, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Which is no different from a Bone Horror save for the fact it leaves an exploitable corpse, theoritically making it possible to have one at all times.

I'm glad MMs got nerfed, an MM with a decent sized army could beat everything in a damage race and constantly being mowed down by a wall of Fiends made HA boring as hell. I do not feel that the number should have been cut so low as 10 (I think its 2 at the start and 1 for every 2 levels after that) 15 would have been a more reasonable number in my mind... I don't like the nerf on maintaining them at all though, especially V's Sacrifice.

Zallya · Apr 27, 2006, 07:07 PM // 19:07

I want to make a point here. Sure, the minion limit may nerf MM's, but it also brings more ideas to the field. The limit is 2+(death magic/2) right? Well, with no death magic thats 2 minions. Just enough for a pair of bone minions, which have actually been made better. They used to cost 25 energy, now theyre only 15. ok, now think about this- When minions are summoned past the limit, previous ones die. This allows A- to keep a load of less maintanance fresh bodies on the field, and B- incredible abuse of soul reaping. Get 16 points in soul reaping, stick animate bone minions on your bar and you have a constantly renewing supply of energy. Every time you cast animate minions will cost you 15 energy, and bring you 32, which is an overall output of 17 energy. It may seem to even out having to cast the minions a first time, but consider that your minions aren't the only thing dying on the battlefield.

If you think about it there are plenty of ways to abuse this update, and the new minion counter makes it easier to keep track of your minions. As a result the classic minion master build needs more thinking put into it, and it also opens up a huge load of potential abuse of the system.

Thats just my view on it.

Kurow · Apr 27, 2006, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unchain

Yes. A HUGE nerf. I help people with the Monk's Path mission just to control about 30 minions. Can't do it anymore. No more solo Thirsty for me anymore. I'm done with MM until I have the new skills.

You cant solo thirsty river anymore? OMG why would Anet do that?! You're supposed to solo all the missions in the game!

Quote:

Originally Posted by VampiricuS

My average is 15-27.
The ONLY thing I can think why they nerfed us is because the vampiric horrors. If i had 15-20 of them, I would NEVER die. my only guess, but the bump to 60 second recharge sucks a$$

Maybe thats why they changed it.

Jetdoc · Apr 27, 2006, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenoranger

If you look at it, a single necro can't go up against anything by themself. Not unless it was in presearing or just a stupid AI. I have yet to see a necro primary that fairs well against a warrior or anything. (at least, wihtout minions).

Wow.

In PvE, with my non-minion master N/Me, I have soloed (without henchmen) almost the entire game (before the Ring of Fire). You just have to be diverse in your skill selection and don't go toe-to-toe with certain enemies. Kite like the wind.

In PvP, I love going one-on-one versus a warrior. 16 Curses + 12 Domination generally results in a very dead warrior very quickly.

I think that this forces Necromancers to get out of their cookie-cutter builds and be a bit more ingenuitive. And yes, minions can be a part of those builds, but maybe not the sole reason for the build.

Misa · Apr 27, 2006, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Try N/E with glyph of renewal for ventra's sarc?

I won't be able to use the minion elites then but that's what I am going to do with my mm.