Curse

Toxic RD · Apr 17, 2006, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Heyo, so i;d like to know certain things about the Boon/Prot build:
I was reading Guild Wiki, and it says most ppl would use OoB for energy manage, until after the March 2 '06 update, anyone know why this is?

So, when i use Boon and OoB it will heal me back some of the 20% lost correct? or was that changed in the above mentioned update?

Where are Boon/Prot monks needed most? (in the PvE world)

wheel · Apr 17, 2006, 04:07 AM // 04:07

Most boon prots switched to Energy Drain or Mantra of Recall after the OoB nerf. MoR is much better than Energy Drain in PvE. Another skill you should definitely put to use in PvE depending upon the mob type is Power Drain, because its main drawbacks are positioning and timing of its use, which are of little importance to PvE. Other skills that will prove to be useful for you are Inspired Hex & Drain Enchantment. At any rate, the build will look something like this:

boon prot

Monk/Mesmer
Level: 20

Divine Favor: 16 (12+4)
Protection Prayers: 9 (8+1)
Inspiration Magic: 10

- Reversal of Fortune (Protection Prayers)
- Guardian (Protection Prayers)
- Mend Condition (Protection Prayers)
- Draw Conditions (Protection Prayers)
- Signet of Devotion (Divine Favor)
- Mantra of Recall [Elite] (Inspiration Magic)
- Inspired Hex (Inspiration Magic)
- Divine Boon (Divine Favor)

The main skills are Boon, MoR, RoF, Guardian, Mend Condition/Ailment, and you can sub in different skills for the other 3 slots depending upon the types of enemies you'll be facing.

One note that I'll make is that in many situations where you have Heal Parties flying around in PvE, OoB will be superior to Mantra of Recall because the OoB sacrifice will get mopped up by what would otherwise be a Heal Party overheal. Play around with it and see which you like.

Toxic RD · Apr 17, 2006, 04:12 AM // 04:12

So, why is MoR superior to OoB in your mind, or is it just that you'll have mesmer skills to chose from, instead of necro blood, which arent incredibly helpful

sno · Apr 17, 2006, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxic RD

So, when i use Boon and OoB it will heal me back some of the 20% lost correct? or was that changed in the above mentioned update?

Boon only works with monk spells, so OoB would be a full 20% sac, you wouldn't be healed at all for it.

Quote:

- Draw Conditions (Protection Prayers)

Why would you need more condition removal than mend condition? it's one condition per 2 seconds, that can double as a 2nd heal. Having draw conditions on your bar is rather silly imo. I agree that CoP isn't necessary in PvE, but having that much condition removal is very overkill, considering you only have one hex removal per 20s. I'd personally bring holy veil, but prot spirit would be a viable alternative depending on where you're going to be.

Quote:

So, why is MoR superior to OoB in your mind, or is it just that you'll have mesmer skills to chose from, instead of necro blood, which arent incredibly helpful

No, OoB is bad now because of the massive sac. You'll likely have to heal yourself after using it, which makes it less efficient, and MoR is now safer and better

Toxic RD · Apr 17, 2006, 05:08 AM // 05:08

As of right now i have:
MoR
RoF
Guardian
Divine Boon
Rebirth
Power Drain

I'm struggling with my 2 remaining skills between:
Purge conditions, mend ailment, mend condition, remove hex, prot spirit,

koneko · Apr 17, 2006, 05:24 AM // 05:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

Most boon prots switched to Energy Drain or Mantra of Recall after the OoB nerf.

I remember seeing Soul Wedding playing around with OoB recently in a match...just once.

Personally, I'd drop Power Drain and put in Inspired Hex for PvE. Leave the interrupting to the mesmers and rangers.

No to Purge Conditions. Take either Mend Condition or Mend Ailment. If you decide to bring Condition, bring Contemplation of Purity for really vital self-hex/condition removal. If Ailment, bring...something else.

Of course, others will likely disagree...especially about CoP.

wheel · Apr 17, 2006, 07:53 AM // 07:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by sno

Why would you need more condition removal than mend condition? it's one condition per 2 seconds, that can double as a 2nd heal. Having draw conditions on your bar is rather silly imo.

Multiple conditions on warriors = bad. In PvE, I'm sure that it probably doesn't matter, so Mend Condition should be sufficient. I'd probably throw in Holy Veil in there or something like that.

By the way, Mend Condition is NOT one condition every two seconds. It's one condition every 2.75s. There's a huge difference.

The CoP is probably unnecessary as well in PvE, so substitute that in for another utility spell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by koneko

Personally, I'd drop Power Drain and put in Inspired Hex for PvE. Leave the interrupting to the mesmers and rangers.

It's not there for an interrupt. It's there for gross energy management. It has higher energy management return than Mantra of Recall. In PvE, it's MUCH easier to micromanage things like interrupting as a monk, thus Power Drain shines. See this thread comparing the energy management options available for monks. Power Drain is INSANE energy management, and in PvE, it's very very very easy to utilize.

dansamy · Apr 17, 2006, 09:03 AM // 09:03

I still like OoB. The 20% sac is only a problem if you aren't aware of your surroundings and sac 20% life when you have an arseload of enemies beating the crap out of you.

Suggestion if you must go mes:

{MoR
RoF
Guardian
Divine Boon
Rebirth
Power Drain} <--skills you'd selected already
{Inspired Hex
Mend Ailment/Mend Condition} <--my suggestions for your last 2 slots

ozi3333 · Apr 17, 2006, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Is this PvP or PvE?
Because Rebirth does not work in PvP

holden · Apr 17, 2006, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

It's not there for an interrupt. It's there for gross energy management. It has higher energy management return than Mantra of Recall. In PvE, it's MUCH easier to micromanage things like interrupting as a monk, thus Power Drain shines. Power Drain is INSANE energy management, and in PvE, it's very very very easy to utilize.

absolutely. it's 5 energy for over 15 net at around 9 or 10 inspiration.
i went thru the game as a monk/necro but as a mesmer i never left without power drain. it's way too easy to find a target casting a 2 or 3 second spell in pve.

i went to topeka high wheel. that's a freakin trip seeing your location.

Toxic RD · Apr 17, 2006, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Thanks for all the helpful posts, i decided on Power drain, mend condition, and remove hex, because i find nobody in PvE has hex removal, and i find hexes hurt my allies more than conditions do

So, my last question:
Where are boon/prot monks needed?

sno · Apr 17, 2006, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxic RD

Thanks for all the helpful posts, i decided on Power drain, mend condition, and remove hex, because i find nobody in PvE has hex removal, and i find hexes hurt my allies more than conditions do

So, my last question:
Where are boon/prot monks needed?

Don't bring remove hex, bring holy veil. It's a shorter cast time, all you need to do is cast and immediately remove it. As a boon prot you rely on short casts to get fast heals out in emergencies.

To answer your question, boon prot's can be used anywhere in PvE to replace heal monks. The problem with most monks in PvE is that they suck. They never bring energy management, and just spam their heals until they run out of energy. The beauty of the boon prot build (as well as other PvP based builds) is that you never have to "stop for regen" because in PvP you don't have time to. If everyone on your team relies on PvP strategies you'll likely have a much more efficient team, able to rip through missions much faster than traditional PvE teams.

LouAl · Apr 17, 2006, 10:00 PM // 22:00

*slightly* off topic

Why do boon/prots often use sig of devotion? it is only a heal of 106 right? no divine bonus? and on a 2 sec cast with 5 sec recharge...

Is the only reason that it heals about the same as a random RoF or Mend and saves you 7 energy?

I am sure I am missing something but I have had much better success jsut putting a RoF or Mend condition on someone if they need a heal. I just hate waiting around for 2 seconds for something that is only saving me 7 energy. It has been my experience that if I can't spare teh 7 energy then something bad is happening with my energy and if I can wait 2 seconds to save 7e then natural regen is about as efficient (because when I can wait that long there is no one around to hurt us...)

sorry if it totally obvious

wheel · Apr 17, 2006, 10:14 PM // 22:14

The reason that you use Signet of Devotion is because Energy Denial is SO popular that you can count on most teams to have 1-2 Edenial mesmers who are going to be focusing on the monks hardcore. It's a heal that you can use on your negative energy set, as well as when you're on your main set with zero energy naturally. It's also very good versus pressure/degen teams, where they try to overwhelm your energy by making the pressure too much to handle. Signet of Devotion helps you bypass that by giving you a free ~100 HP heal every 7 seconds.

Toxic RD · Apr 17, 2006, 10:56 PM // 22:56

^ That's for PvP

wheel · Apr 18, 2006, 12:21 AM // 00:21

The reasoning for using it in PvE would be the fact that against certain situations, you will have problems with energy due to the sheer amount of enemies you face, and a zero energy ~100 pt heal is worth it. YMMV depending on the type of mobs you'll be facing, though.

jules · Apr 18, 2006, 12:32 AM // 00:32

The difference between PvE and PvP is that in PvE you can rest up between mobs most of the time, and in PvP you may have 20 minute long engagements with mesmers giving you a hard time. Energy management is therefore *less* of an issue in PvE. Call me a noob, but before I started PvPing I monked in all the PvE missions with a pure healing/divine favour monk using spammable 5 em heals and no energy management skill.

Signet of Devotion comes in handy especially with maxed out divine favour. You can use it as top-up healing in low pressure situations and this saves your energy for when you really need it. Depending on the PvE area you may encounter mesmer mobs with enchantment removal which will make a boon prot less viable.

makosi · Apr 18, 2006, 02:53 PM // 14:53

I use Contemplation of Purity - it gives me emergency energy from Mantra of Recall which is particluarly good when my Mantra recharges quickly. Try using Garbok's Cane and the divine symbol from the droks crafter (or the soulstone).

sir lockt · Apr 19, 2006, 07:28 AM // 07:28

First about the CoP usage in combo with MoR: In PvE this is an excellent combo because you can rest after using the emergency. In PvP this isnt the case: when you used CoP on MoR you dont have time to recover and you will be without e-management for a long time.

OoB got a serious blow with the update due to the large sacrifise, but in PvP it isnt useless at all. Several of the top-guilds still use one mo/n with OoB and a second boon-prot with MoR. OoB has a major advantage that its hardly uninteruptable, which isnt the case with MoR.

OoB divides the energy boost in smaller pieces, with a faster recharge and is therefore better for emergency situations. The boon-prot using OoB should carefully watch his health and when heavilly pressured sometimes its better to kite away first.

Personally i use mostly OoB unless some other inspiration skills are required. Interupts are your primary enemy in PvP and MoR or inspired hex arent good enough to get through when facing a dedicated mesmer. Also the widely used E-surge is less effective with the usages of OoB: When a surger sees MoR being cast it uses a enchant removal directly followed by its surge: removing MoR deliveres enough energy to do massive damage and waste the e-management...

As mentioned before: In pve you dont need such e-management: I played through the game without e-management besides using low cost heals. of course you cannot use boon in such case... If you want to use boon: Always take management

felinette · Apr 19, 2006, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by jules

Call me a noob, but before I started PvPing I monked in all the PvE missions with a pure healing/divine favour monk using spammable 5 em heals and no energy management skill.

I'm a noob, too, then. I'm a pure healing monk and don't have any energy management skills. I rarely run out of energy (this is PvE). Yesterday I monked THK with a PUG and didn't run out of energy once, despite the other monk's decision to stay safely out of harm's way to man the catapults, leaving all the healing to me. Trick is not to over-heal and to use as many 5 energy spells as you can. Only use the higher cost ones when absolutely necessary.

I find that it's not the amount of enemies you're facing, but the skill level of the group you're with, that determines if you'll have energy problems. If you're out with a good group, your energy level will usually remain healthy no matter how many opponents you're facing. If you're out with a bad group (tanking spellcasters who don't know when to kite, necros who keep sacrificing life while being pounded on, etc.), you can run low on energy with only a couple of opponents, energy management or no.

I have considered changing my secondary to mesmer to get a couple of energy management skills, but so far, haven't really felt a real need to actually do it.