Curse

Dr. Fire · Apr 15, 2006, 01:02 PM // 13:02

Guys I have been playing around with speed ups in PvP. For the longest time I have been switching back and forth between Tigers Fury and Flurry. Draw back to TF is the points needed in BM (I put 4 in for 7 seconds) and the loss of non-attack skills for a few seconds. Flurry needs no points but you do 25%less damage. I never really paid attention to Frenzy. But that has changed as of yesterday. The big draw back to it is that you take double damage while it is activated. Obviously in PvP that could be the difference between a kill or your death. But I like using Melandru's Arrows in PvP for the + to damage to enchanted foes (majority of Monks) and the added bleeding as the condition. I played around with Flurry in the Random Arena, and as long as I used it carefully it worked great. I always take another stance like WD or SC, so if I get attacked while Frenzy is up I just activate the other stance and it cancels out Frenzy. What do you think about this? Make sense or am I FOS?

Thrawn Foxheed · Apr 15, 2006, 01:33 PM // 13:33

You got the hang of using Frenzy in PvP, have a cancel stance to use when under fire. Flurry isn't too useful for a Ranger using a bow imo, mainly used by Warriors to build adrenaline and then using skills when Flurry has ended.

Personally I like Tiger's Fury but it's use can be conditional, i.e best not to use it when you're being attacked as it disables your defenses, so you practically blacked yourself out for 5 seconds.

Another advantage of using TF is it's a ranger skill, meaning you don't have to be a R/W to take advantage of it.

Dr. Fire · Apr 15, 2006, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Excellent points. And I agree about the Warrior secondary requirement. I like running a R/N for the sole purpose of using Plague Touch since it is better to give than to receive, hehe. But I like running a 13-12-12 Ranger in PvP, so to put even 4 points into BM I have to bump one down, and I hate to do that. If running TF, I will swap out MA for either Poison Arrow (since it is a Bow attack), Barrage (for the added damage and spammability), or Punishing Shot (another interupt). But with MA Flurry is a nice 8 second speed up that can be kept up constantly, adds a condition, and adds major hate to enchantments as long as you aren't the target of the opponents. I am trying to talk myself into using it more than defending it's use to you all. Look forward to additional debate on this.

SnoopJeDi · Apr 15, 2006, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Flurry is the best imo, if you're using any kind of damage modifier (Judge's Insight, OotV, any preparation).

The reason is that even without a modifier, you're balancing out your damage (actually, coming out on top I believe. 33% increased attack speed but 25% less damage). Once you add that boost in, you're coming out way ahead, and doing more damage. If you use flurry with Incendiary Arrows or Choking Gas in combination with a fast-refire bow, you're going to drive a target nuts with interrupts.

That said, I like TF, but I just can't spare the points in beastmastery sometimes.

Dr. Fire · Apr 15, 2006, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Yea, that is conventional wisdom, but with Frenzy you get all that and no 25% penalty. So forget about "coming out ahead". Of course with any other secondary, other than Warrior, the argument is moot. Or, you have a Necro putting up the OotV for you. With Frenzy you come out even MORE ahead. point is you gotta be prudent with it if you are a target. I don't know, maybe I am putting to much into the benefit of no damage penalty, but what the heck, I can even live with double damage as long as I have a Monk on top of things, or TU up and running. And like I said, if you become the target of focus fire you are going to be kicking in Escape, WD, LR, or DD's anyway, no matter what speed up you are using.

Mordakai · Apr 15, 2006, 04:58 PM // 16:58

I don't PvP, but can someone who does explain this to me:

When is a Warrior not under fire? How often do you actually use Frenzy? I must assume it's a lot, or else no one would take it...

Dr. Fire · Apr 15, 2006, 05:04 PM // 17:04

This is a Ranger build using a Warrior secondary. Both Flurry and Frenzy are not attached to any attribute, so you need not put any points into any Warrior attribute line. Tigers Fury is the Ranger speed up, but it is in the Beast Mastery line. Unless you are a Beast Master no one usually wants to waste valuable points in BM. And most of the time in PvP, casters are the initial primary targets.

SnoopJeDi · Apr 15, 2006, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Fire

Yea, that is conventional wisdom, but with Frenzy you get all that and no 25% penalty. So forget about "coming out ahead". Of course with any other secondary, other than Warrior, the argument is moot. Or, you have a Necro putting up the OotV for you. With Frenzy you come out even MORE ahead. point is you gotta be prudent with it if you are a target. I don't know, maybe I am putting to much into the benefit of no damage penalty, but what the heck, I can even live with double damage as long as I have a Monk on top of things, or TU up and running. And like I said, if you become the target of focus fire you are going to be kicking in Escape, WD, LR, or DD's anyway, no matter what speed up you are using.

You do have to be prudent about it, which is why I mainly don't use it. I can't always guarantee having a stance ready to cool frenzy off, especially with a long cooldown on most of them. Taking both might be an idea. Still, I think flurry is underused for the power it provides.

Jenosavel · Apr 15, 2006, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

I don't PvP, but can someone who does explain this to me:

When is a Warrior not under fire? How often do you actually use Frenzy? I must assume it's a lot, or else no one would take it...

This is one of the aspects where PvP and PvE really diverge. In PvP, warriors are usually the very last people on your team who will be taking damage. The reason? The enemy team isn't stupid enough to uselessly try pounding through that armor. They'll try to drop people as quickly as possible, and thus that means they're going to be taking out the soft targets first. Thus, in PvP Frenzy is practically a staple of warrior builds.

swordfisher · Apr 15, 2006, 08:03 PM // 20:03

But remember that everywhere frenzy goes, thus goeth a cancel stance. Otherwise, you're effectively a soft target yourself for 8 seconds at a time. Of course, these cancel stances are usually quite useful on their own merits, so it's not a loss. Flurry and Tigers Fury don't require a cancel stance, and TF (in my experience) actually discourages carrying a second stance because TF can be kept up nearly 100% of the time, even without a serious BM commitment.

Dr. Fire · Apr 15, 2006, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Well thus far, Flurry and TF are winning this debate hands down. And I always take some type of defensive stance no matter the speed booster. So I think I like my R/N with Plague Touch and 4 points in BM to get the 7 seconds out of TF. With a R/W build Flurry seems the choice. I still may play with Frenzy for a bit for the heck of it.

Murder In China · Apr 15, 2006, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Flurry last for 5 seconds and has a recharge time of 5 seconds, it also cost 5 energy. A warrior won't be able to keep spamming it forever.

Frenzy last for 8 seconds and has a recharge time of 4 seconds, it cost the same as Flurry but lasts longer and has a shorter recharge time. Less energy-intensive.

Tiger's Fury requires you place points in Beast Mastery. Most people place 9 points in Beast Mastery to get 9 seconds out of Tiger's Fury. but it's recharge is 10 seconds and it disables all your non-attack skills for 5 seconds. Tiger's Fury cost 10 energy which is something a warrior can't spam without the aid of a Zealous weapon.

For a ranger, I would use Tiger's Fury because of Expertise and the ability to place a rune in Beast Mastery. I wouldn't use Flurry because of its penalty of 25% less damage. Frenzy is an okay attack speed buff since you'll be in the backline and not the front.

Iskrah · Apr 15, 2006, 09:14 PM // 21:14

A 7 second Tiger's Fury is fine with me when i'm using a physical damage build. Not like i'm not gonna send an interrupt or two anyway when the occasion comes. It costs basically nothing, 4 in Beast Mastery, which is 3+1 rune. It lets you max out Expertise and Marksmanship...

Misc Merik · Apr 15, 2006, 09:18 PM // 21:18

I prefer frenzy in pvp. In pve its Tf because I dont really care If I cant use my -40 armor healing signet while being attacked.

Anarion Silverhand · Apr 15, 2006, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Tiger's Fury caught my vote too. Barrage+ Tiger's Fury + Zealous String + Clustered enemies = Unlimited energy

fiery · Apr 15, 2006, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Furry NEVER, frenzy is okay switch off with a stance when taking damage, ALSO tigers fury is also okay.

Huntmaster · Apr 15, 2006, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiery

Furry NEVER, frenzy is okay switch off with a stance when taking damage, ALSO tigers fury is also okay.

...What?

Anyway, if you're setup as a R/W, Frenzy is probably best with an extra stance that has a quick recharge to cancel frenzy, Sprint is probably your best bet at 20 sec recharge.

Iskrah · Apr 15, 2006, 11:00 PM // 23:00

If you're set up as R/W, then you're not playing a good role in PvP (except for the Hammer Ranger, but then...). If you're playing PvE then you're under constant attack from mobs.

So no, nothing compares to Tiger's Fury reduced by expertise. Not even close actually.

Valerius · Apr 16, 2006, 03:42 AM // 03:42

TF hands down imo

SnoopJeDi · Apr 16, 2006, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iskrah

If you're set up as R/W, then you're not playing a good role in PvP (except for the Hammer Ranger, but then...)

That's a blanket statement, and more importantly, it's wrong. I run a CG interrupter in PvP (granted, RA, but I have run it in TA with success) as R/W, and use flurry. Using flurry, I can keep "Watch Yourself!" up 99% of the time, with some downtime due to movement or emergency situations, etc. Not to mention, I'm getting plenty of hits, and therefore, interrupts.