Curse

knight thork · May 06, 2006, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Wich would be a better Minion Master?

*Rt/N ^^

Tainek · May 06, 2006, 11:54 PM // 23:54

n/mo By far, no question

K.Ichigo · May 07, 2006, 12:18 AM // 00:18

I'd say Rt/N, for the spawning power bonuses, but eh.

Evilsod · May 07, 2006, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Rit gets 8 minions max all at a lower level, so Necro wins hands down.

phexter · May 07, 2006, 12:14 PM // 12:14

I've had a long discussion about this with a guildy. What does actually concerns me about the idea of an Rt/N is similar to Rangers with pets. Usually in a PvP Situation they get ignored and in PvE mobs tend to either ignore them or concentrate completly on them.

A Ritualist... fully powered... can have a maximum of 8 minions with 64% more health at maximum level 14 (with a +1 DM staff probably to 15 at times). They do an average on the Wardens around Arborstone of 10 damage (very roughly). Maintaining the maxmimum amount of minions can be tricky in longer lasting fights, as eventually you run out of energy if you don't stick to horrors.

A Necromancer has a maximum of 10 minions, wich aid of Soul Reaping, hasn't too much problems maintaining them in longer fights, they are - maxed - at level 18 and do twice to three times as much damage as the Ritualist version. But they die faster, but deaths just supply the Necromancer with new energy for new minions in general.

Considering the two options the Necromancer dishes out way more overal damage while beeing more likely able to maintain his army on his own, while the Ritualist has a slightly smaller army beeing able to take more hits, but the biggest concern here is that you can't effeciently use the minions as tanks, since we have no way to properly control them. In addition a Ritualist MM is more likely to either fall short of minions after a while or needs help in maintaining his army.

Of course this is general speaking, there may be work arounds I haven't thought of, yet. But to me, a Necromancer is the only way to go if you want to be a Minion Master. Arguing for the Spawninig Power is almost like saying M/N are better because they can create the minions faster.

Tainek · May 07, 2006, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by phexter

I've had a long discussion about this with a guildy. What does actually concerns me about the idea of an Rt/N is similar to Rangers with pets. Usually in a PvP Situation they get ignored and in PvE mobs tend to either ignore them or concentrate completly on them.

A Ritualist... fully powered... can have a maximum of 8 minions with 64% more health at maximum level 14 (with a +1 DM staff probably to 15 at times). They do an average on the Wardens around Arborstone of 10 damage (very roughly). Maintaining the maxmimum amount of minions can be tricky in longer lasting fights, as eventually you run out of energy if you don't stick to horrors.

A Necromancer has a maximum of 10 minions, wich aid of Soul Reaping, hasn't too much problems maintaining them in longer fights, they are - maxed - at level 18 and do twice to three times as much damage as the Ritualist version. But they die faster, but deaths just supply the Necromancer with new energy for new minions in general.

Considering the two options the Necromancer dishes out way more overal damage while beeing more likely able to maintain his army on his own, while the Ritualist has a slightly smaller army beeing able to take more hits, but the biggest concern here is that you can't effeciently use the minions as tanks, since we have no way to properly control them. In addition a Ritualist MM is more likely to either fall short of minions after a while or needs help in maintaining his army.

Of course this is general speaking, there may be work arounds I haven't thought of, yet. But to me, a Necromancer is the only way to go if you want to be a Minion Master. Arguing for the Spawninig Power is almost like saying M/N are better because they can create the minions faster.

the main problem is actually that, the minions are all 4 levels lower, which means 80 less HP to start with, and they also have less AL, i think overall you gain about 30 health, but lose AL, not to mention for this gain you need 16 in spawning power

so your left with:
1/3rd the damage
about 10% more hp per minion
Less AL per minion
2 less minions
No Soul reaping meaning you need to find anouther means of maintaining the energy

its just not feasable

Erevain · May 07, 2006, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tainek

the main problem is actually that, the minions are all 4 levels lower, which means 80 less HP to start with, and they also have less AL, i think overall you gain about 30 health, but lose AL, not to mention for this gain you need 16 in spawning power

With 16 spawning you get lvl14 minions with 590 health. Normal lvl18 have only 440 health, so difference is not 30 health, it's about 150 health.

Dunno if GW uses some different calculation, but it would be that much in real world.

Vinsanity · May 07, 2006, 08:53 PM // 20:53

I have done both and a N/Mo is far easier to handle than a Rt/N.

Tainek · May 08, 2006, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erevain

With 16 spawning you get lvl14 minions with 590 health. Normal lvl18 have only 440 health, so difference is not 30 health, it's about 150 health.

Dunno if GW uses some different calculation, but it would be that much in real world.

i cba to check this myself, but i'm pretty certain the hp on a lvl 18 (18*20) is 360hp, not 440 (ive seen it thrown around a lot)

even if the health bonus is more significant, you have still have a mere 6 attribute points leftover after having 16 spawning, and 12 death, so you are stuck using just the skills from these lines (as opposed to the N/Mo who can invest in 3 with no problems)

Self healing will become a problem, as you are relying on boon of creation for both healing and energy management, its pretty decent for energy, but iffish for healing, if you have 8 minons you cannot animate anymore, so in a tight spot you cannot heal. If that enchant gets ripped, say byebye to your Health and energy

and when i refer to overall hp gained, i dont mean induvidually, i mean overall, dont forget your sold 2 minions short (360*2=720hp less, your overall tanking ability only grew by about 90hp each)

Lets work it out, 360*10= 3600hp of tank

320*1.6=520, 520*8=4160 of tank, about 10-15% more (its 20 to 2, i cba to be exact)

and then of course factoring in the significantly lower damage, i just cant see it working anywhere near as well, its a nice idea, but just doesnt work well in practice

Edit:

It gets worse, i forgot to factor in minion healing

the difference between rank 12 and 16 healing is 28 hp per minion, about 25%, so the ritualist is spamming it more often to keep those tanks going, and having even more problems with his already frail self healing.

to sum up

Pros of Rit/N
10-15% More Overall Minion HP

Cons of Rit/N
Significant loss of damage delt
Barely able to heal self
Both self healing and energy management rely on an enchantment
Unlike N/Mo, the ritualist cannot help with the healing of the team
Has to BoTM More often

lightblade · May 08, 2006, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Use Rt/N for taking damage
Use N/Rt for doing damage

or in other word..

Rt/N for pve
N/Rt for pvp