Curse

Tensai · May 03, 2006, 02:24 AM // 02:24

this boon prot is for pretty much for pve or pvp, though im focusing more on it being good at pvp than pve (since pve energy management etc isnt as important anyways, could just go pure healing for the heck of it)

but im not sure which 2 class profs to use or their related skills:

Mo/N
Divine Boon
Reversal of Fortune
Offering of Blood
Rebirth (only when pve, not pvp)
Remove Hex
Orison of Healing
Dwayna's Kiss
Healing Touch
Guardian
*Signet of devotion (should i even bother w/ this?)
-not sure which 8 i should go w/ IF i go Mo/N...or if i should go this at all anymore, i heard OoB is not worth it really now when compared to say Mo/Me for pvp?

Mo/Me
Divine Boon
Healing Touch
Guardian
Mantra of Recall
Channeling
Power Drain
Inspired Hex/Contemplation of Purity/Holy Veil
Dwayna's Kiss
Orison of Healing

which 8 seem ok for that?

so pretty much i guess what im asking is for pve and also pvp, which is more viable now after OoB nerf: Mo/N or Mo/Me?

and also, do my 2 skill setups seem fine for either? (after narrowing them down to 8 or whatnot). im pretty much a n00b and all of this just came from reading forums etc, so to me this all is "just on paper"...so fine tuning, corrections, misconceptions removed would all be very very much appreciated

sry for the hassle, thx again

art_ · May 03, 2006, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Neither of those are boon prot builds, and the second build has 9+ skills.

Try this

E Drain {E}
RoF
Guardian*
Prot Spirit
Insp Hex
Mend Condition
CoP
Divine Boon

*I used to take sig of devo in this space, but i've found that the ability to screw up an assassins lethal attack chain, all of which relies on the previous hit, is priceless.

With 14 divine favor, 9 inspiration and the rest prot. It should work nicely.

I have a feeling factions may shake up monk builds a bit though, so keep an eye on observer mode

PS: This is a pvp build. In PvE I normally take a Word Healer, as you generally know what you are up against and the chances of being the target yourself are low if you are in a decent group and have average to decent positioning.

Tensai · May 03, 2006, 03:12 AM // 03:12

hm maybe im not thinking a total boon prot build then? im hoping for one where im pretty much healing in pvp and thats my main job...divine boon is there for extra boost in heal and N or Me diff. stuff there for e-management

that one seems to ahve no heals and seems more of a supplement to a healer monk? (which MAY be what boon prot monks are haha)...but i guess i may be thinking of something else? lmao boon healer? lol iunno

pah01 · May 03, 2006, 03:53 AM // 03:53

Divine Boon plus your divine favour bonus is what makes a Boon Prot actually a Healer in a sense.

Go and look at the figures --

Orison plus divine favour bonus is roughly 110 heal depending on attribute spread give or take a few hitpoints.

Boon plus divine favour bonus is roughly 110 depending on attribute spread with the added effect of protecting your ALLY for the next attack thereby negating the damage.

There is only one skill in healing that can be used to save against spikes and its called infuse health. That has drawbacks notably the loss of your own health.

Boon Prot Monks do not supplement any healer Monk - they are the most powerful and self sufficient Monks out there - there is a reason nearly every single top guild runs two of them.

Sam

Tensai · May 03, 2006, 04:50 AM // 04:50

more love sam, that got me to 80%

(2)

pah01 · May 03, 2006, 04:56 AM // 04:56

Whats the other 20% so I can go to sleep.

Tensai · May 03, 2006, 04:58 AM // 04:58

haha its in my other thread- dont worry, you got it covered

Minus Sign · May 03, 2006, 08:07 AM // 08:07

The standard fair PvP Boon Prot runs these skills:

1Protective Spirit
2Guardian
3RoF
4Holy Veil
5Mend C
6Divine Boon
7CoP
8Energy Manager (OoB, MoR, or other)

Its the "standard cookie cutter" because its that darn good.

Holy Veil is faster than Remove Hex in cast, making it a better choice in the heavy interupting metagame of PvP. Cast and drop it as fast as you can, or hold it on someone if that mesmer gets target locked (the later doesn't happen in my PvP experience, but PvE? Gotta love stupid mobs

). Because you're numero uno on the target list, theres less need for you to bring rez; chances are, you'll be the one dying if your team needs rez.

Forget Signet of Devotion, it gives you no divine favor assist and nothing from Boon, so its not worth the 2 second casts in PvP or PvE. The real question is, "What type of PvP?" Are you going GvG or hoping to rack up some fame? Boon Prots have a place in HoH, but its smaller than GvG.

Search for SB Infuse builds in this forum if you want to go healer in HoH PvP; builds that revolve around the SpellBreaker Elite and Infuse Health.

JR · May 03, 2006, 09:31 AM // 09:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minus Sign

Forget Signet of Devotion, it gives you no divine favor assist and nothing from Boon, so its not worth the 2 second casts in PvP or PvE.

But it is a Divine Favor based signet, on a character that will naturally be running with 16/14 Divine Favor. A large heal, regularly, for free. Worth a slot if you can fit it into your build, in my opinion.

Shadow-Hunter · May 03, 2006, 01:11 PM // 13:11

Well Imo: Signet of Devotion Give like 100 heal or something, as it do NOT trigger the DF bonus or the Boon bonus.. a Boon proter will heal sometimes heal more than 100 health in one RoF on the targed.. RoF have 1/4 sec cast time vs Signet of Devotion's 2 sec.. And the little added energy you use by using RoF over the free energy signet is nothing.. Leave the signet at home and take some skill that give energy instead.. Like Inspired hex.. Remove a hex and Give some energy.. Thats better than that stupid signet =/..

~Shadow

pah01 · May 03, 2006, 03:49 PM // 15:49

If you have two prot booners in GVG, It is well worth one slot[ edit Sometimes]. It is energy management as it is a SIGNET.

From above -- IF YOU CAN FIT IT IN IT IS WORTH A SLOT[edit this higlighted clarifies my position] . Dont hate the signet of devotion for it can be worth one slot on one monk in GVG. You may not need two copies of gaurdian for instance.

EDIT: I know that the last Pride use this signet in their build.

Sam

art_ · May 04, 2006, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minus Sign

Forget Signet of Devotion, it gives you no divine favor assist and nothing from Boon, so its not worth the 2 second casts in PvP or PvE.

Hah.

I disagree. Sig of devo is a nice 100 heal every couple of seconds and over the course of a gvg really adds up in terms of healing. If assassins weren't quite well neutralised by guardian breaking attack chains sig of devo would likely still be on my bar. Even with your energy management elite, decent teams will likely put your energy under extreme strain so being able to pump out free heals so regularly is very nice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by minus sign

Holy Veil is faster than Remove Hex in cast,

Try inspired hex plx. You actually gain energy from removing hexes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadow hunter

RoF have 1/4 sec cast time vs Signet of Devotion's 2 sec.

Totally missed the point. Sig of devo is nice for healing people when they are degenning, or when they are fairly high health anyway. I would never recommend trying to save any kind of spike with it unless you were completely out of energy on all your weapon sets as it a 2 second cast.

pah01 · May 04, 2006, 02:09 AM // 02:09

BTW there is the escape key which is used to cancel cast. :P

Minus Sign · May 04, 2006, 03:49 AM // 03:49

Quote:

Try inspired hex plx. You actually gain energy from removing hexes.

I have. It’s a good hex removal for a Mo/Me and solves a lot of energy management issues. Since I prefer Mo/N, it doesn’t suit me. I like Veil because you get the DF/Boon heal with the cast and because IH has that 20 second recharge. If I do go Mo/Me, it’s a tossup between IH and Veil. Veil, however, usually wins.

Quote:

BTW there is the escape key which is used to cancel cast. :P

And there are a bunch of 5 mana (7 with Boon) spells that make escaping out of them a non-issue. I don’t cast a spell because I feel like it. I cast because someone needs a heal, and probably more.

Quote:

Totally missed the point. Sig of devo is nice for healing people when they are degenning, or when they are fairly high health anyway. I would never recommend trying to save any kind of spike with it unless you were completely out of energy on all your weapon sets as it a 2 second cast.

Actually, he hit the nail on the head. Monking in PvP is not monking in PvE. You’re the prime target of every hex, interrupt and damage dealer in the game. That means you need to have spells that you can cast quickly to avoid interrupt and do a lot for the mana they charge. Interrupts are downright mean in PvP. But not to RoF. Its so darn quick you’re going to get it off without interrupt issues. The same can’t be said for Sig-o-D.

That’s the reason Prot Boon was invented, imho. Its 7 mana for a DF boosted Orison on top of a 5 mana prot spell in a 1 second cast or less. There are actually people out there that call that “inefficient”

.

That’s Prot Boon in a nutshell. Two monks rolled into one. Put two on your team, and suddenly you have four. Whoever you’re healing, you can outpace damage while your mana is up. The damage you can’t heal, you’re preventing with your prots. You’re endorsing a 2 second cast soft heal--an Orison, the weakest heal in the game--in an environment that needs you to spam 3 in the same amount of time in a build that can do just that and toss protection spells to boot.

Quote:

But it is a Divine Favor based signet, on a character that will naturally be running with 16/14 Divine Favor. A large heal, regularly, for free. Worth a slot if you can fit it into your build, in my opinion.

At the cost of standing still for 2 seconds while every ranger, Assassin, necro and mesmer is chasing you down to spike, interrupt, hex and degen you. 2 seconds where you not only can you not kite and receive the spells effect, but the effect is the least of any other skill in your bar. It’s a weak heal. 100HP is a weak heal. I do as much with my 7 mana non-healing spells and boon. And I can do it more often and prot at the same time

That only leaves “it’s free”. Like I said, Prot Boon is 2 monks rolled into one. But that also means two monks squeezed into the same mana pool. Yes, Prot Boon has energy management issues. Even on your best day you’re riding a razor’s edge when it comes to energy. That’s the reason why so many Boon Protters “waste” their elite on energy management. They need the power.

Energy management, however, should not be the only consideration when deciding a skill. In this game its all about what can do 2 things at once or one thing exceptionally well. Signet of Devotion does one thing, and it takes time to do it. It leaves you open; exposed while you cast it or wasted time if you have to cut off mid cast to kite and avoid diversion.

It’s not in spirit with what Prot Boon does; 2 things at once (neither great, but together unmatched) for more mana than either; less than both. Fast cast skills that let you avoid the interrupts that squash monks. The Zen of knowing you’re going to die today, and making sure you’re the most expensive piece of meat on the field when you do...to the point of feeling a little cheated when you don't.

Without disrespect, it sounds like you’ve played this build. It sounds like you even like the Prot Boon build. But you don’t understand the build.

pah01 · May 04, 2006, 05:05 AM // 05:05

I can only really say a few things to this. EDIT[Which actually turned out to be quite a bit]

I am arguing that it is only worth a slot IF YOU CAN FIT IT IN. You cannot surmise that I do not understand the prot boon build from that statement. There is no logic in that at all.
Perhaps I should edit my last post above to say it is SOMETIMES worth bringing. The fact that I have seen Last pride bring it more than once means that it should be eneogh for anybody including you to consider that it is SOMETIMES worth bringing on a prot booner.
100 HP is not a weak heal. Otherwise There would be no reason to worry about 75 health loss while using a superior rune. If someone is in need of a topup and you do not want to spend energy to do that then Signet of devotion is a nice skill to have along.
I dont use this skill at the moment with my guild because I cant fit it in on either Monk. There are in fact 9 skills ahead of that one. I am constrained by the absense of other things in the build and the fact that I consider surging to be less of a threat than diversion spam.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minus Sign

And there are a bunch of 5 mana (7 with Boon) spells that make escaping out of them a non-issue. I don’t cast a spell because I feel like it. I cast because someone needs a heal, and probably more.

I also like to cast when someone needs a heal, Sometimes I dont want to spend energy on it however. I dont think you have sat in your negative energy set at zero energy in that set and used signet of devotion when you knew a surger was camped on you. They do surge you when they see you havnt got that axe equiped anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minus Sign

It leaves you open; exposed while you cast it or wasted time if you have to cut off mid cast to kite and avoid diversion or shame.

Signet of devotion bypasses shame, please read the skill descriptions of the skills that are likely to target you. As regards diversion I dont think you understand what is so dangerous about this skill.

Diversion gets removed immediately from our monks or it is triggered by a 1/4 second cast spell like reversal because diversion LANDED WHILE YOU WERE CASTING. Being able to cancel the signet because it is a longer cast is a good thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minus Sign

Interrupts are downright mean in PvP. But not to RoF. Its so darn quick you’re going to get it off without interrupt issues. The same can’t be said for Sig-o-D.

I am more worried about Diversion landing in the middle of my casting a fast cast skill than a ranger or a mesmer interrupting my signet of devotion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minus Sign

Fast cast skills that let you avoid the interrupts that squash monks.

I dont think you have the slightest idea about what squashes monks.

Mantra of recall is 1 sec cast
Energy Drain is 1 sec cast

These skills are easily interrupted by a mesmer and those are the skills that a mesmer will save his power leak for.

Yes I agree a two second cast skill is easily interrupted but so are those two skills up there and quite frankly if a player is stupid eneogh to waste an interupt on that signet then you have already won.

Note also that the only mesmer interrupt that can interrupt a signet is cry of frustration and thats 15 energy so really it is only rangers with distracting shot that you have to worry about.

But again they wont waste that skill on a signet they wont even be trying to interrupt you. It isnt reliable eneogh to catch your 1 sec cast( edit to clarify on the skills mentioned above) all the time and there are other much more juicier interrupt targets that your signet of devotion.

If you can fit this into your build it is not a bad idea to bring it along.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minus Sign

Without disrespect, it sounds like you’ve played this build. It sounds like you even like the Prot Boon build. But you don’t understand the build.

Considering the basis for saying that was almost nothing or surmised from one sentence I consider that a bit harsh from my point of view.

Considering that the world champions have ran this skill in the playoffs I think that it is you who doesnt understand what the possible reasons are for running this skill.

Considering that you also dont seem to understand what the dangers to shame/diversion are and which of your skills you should be worried about interruptions I dont think you have a right to claim that.

Sam

Minus Sign · May 04, 2006, 05:24 AM // 05:24

My appologies pah01. the phrase "or shame" was part of a deleted paragraph that was removed because I felt I'd already made my point. Originally I intended to reiterate that keeping a weak healing signet on your bar to avoid backfire or shame was not a good strategy, but I didn't feel the need to after reading through. I have edited those two words from the post since they seem to upset you so. Sorry for the confusion.

I will not bother re-arguing the issue with you in any case. I've made my point.

pah01 · May 04, 2006, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minus Sign

It leaves you open; exposed while you cast it or wasted time if you have to cut off mid cast to kite and avoid diversion or shame.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pah01

Signet of devotion bypasses shame

I only pointed out that in your post you didnt seem to realise that when casting signet of devotion you dont have to worry about shame.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minus Sign

Originally I intended to reiterate that keeping a weak healing signet on your bar to avoid backfire or shame was not a good strategy

Where did I suggest that this was a good strategy?(or that this was the reason why that skill might be on your bar) I am really confused where this straw man came from.

Sam

Edit: Post 15 in this thread makes clear everything that I have to say on the issue of signet of devotion.

pah01 · May 04, 2006, 06:42 AM // 06:42

For those of you who are still not sure whether or not signet of devotion is a bad or a good idea. I will just prove that it is here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IQforums

EvIL & WM Playoff Boon Prots

Hi Guys.

I just finished watching the playoff finals and I found the boon prots of evil and wm quite "interesting".

here are the builds as far as i was able to get them:

EvIL
#1
Divine Favor: 14 (12+2)
Protection Prayers: 10 (9+1)
Inspiration Magic: 9

Signet of Devotion (Divine Favor)
Guardian (Protection Prayers)
Contemplation of Purity (Divine Favor)
Protective Spirit (Protection Prayers)
Mend Condition (Protection Prayers)
Reversal of Fortune (Protection Prayers)
Mantra of Recall [Elite] (Inspiration Magic)
Divine Boon (Divine Favor)

#2
Divine Favor: 16 (12+4)
Protection Prayers: 9 (8+1)
Inspiration Magic: 10

Signet of Devotion (Divine Favor)
Inspired Hex (Inspiration Magic)
Contemplation of Purity (Divine Favor)
Protective Spirit (Protection Prayers)
Mend Condition (Protection Prayers)
Reversal of Fortune (Protection Prayers)
Mantra of Recall [Elite] (Inspiration Magic)
Divine Boon (Divine Favor)

The world champions (EVIL = The Last Pride) in the playoff finals where they beat war machine ran two copies of signet of devotion.

Minus Sign please delete your posts as they are misleading the community and you are wrong.

Sam

Minus Sign · May 04, 2006, 09:34 AM // 09:34

I respond to you only to say this: if I feel my messages are inappropriate or inaccurate, I will edit them. The fact that you think so is a non-issue in my estimate. I will not remove information just so you have a clear line to broadside people with your own biased views about the skills of this game, nor will I be bullied back into a debate that is already finished.

If you want my posts deleted, contact a mod. Better still, wait for –JR to do it; he replied to this post and received the same tongue-lashing you did in regards to this skill.

art_ · May 04, 2006, 12:13 PM // 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minus Sign

I have. It’s a good hex removal for a Mo/Me and solves a lot of energy management issues. Since I prefer Mo/N, it doesn’t suit me. I like Veil because you get the DF/Boon heal with the cast and because IH has that 20 second recharge. If I do go Mo/Me, it’s a tossup between IH and Veil. Veil, however, usually wins.

I disagree.

Quote:

Actually, he hit the nail on the head. Monking in PvP is not monking in PvE. You’re the prime target of every hex, interrupt and damage dealer in the game. That means you need to have spells that you can cast quickly to avoid interrupt and do a lot for the mana they charge. Interrupts are downright mean in PvP. But not to RoF. Its so darn quick you’re going to get it off without interrupt issues. The same can’t be said for Sig-o-D.

In GvG in the recent metagame, interrupts have not been a major issue.

Quote:

At the cost of standing still for 2 seconds while every ranger, Assassin, necro and mesmer is chasing you down to spike, interrupt, hex and degen you. 2 seconds where you not only can you not kite and receive the spells effect, but the effect is the least of any other skill in your bar. It’s a weak heal. 100HP is a weak heal. I do as much with my 7 mana non-healing spells and boon. And I can do it more often and prot at the same time

100 health every couple of seconds is not 'a weak heal.' It can heal through a lot of pressure damage leaving you with enough energy to save adrenaline spikes.

Quote:

Without disrespect, it sounds like you’ve played this build. It sounds like you even like the Prot Boon build. But you don’t understand the build.

I don't take sig of devo any more in my builds, but that is not to say it is a bad skill. In my opinion the fact that you cannot understood the usefulness of the skill shows that it is in fact you who is having difficulty understanding this build.