Curse

Keyote · Mar 06, 2006, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Yes I'm assuming he used devo sig on himself...isn't that the entire point of having it there to save energy on the self heal after OoB?

And yes I've tried OoB in RA/TA since the patch. Monks get put under pressure and ganked, therefore you need to self heal after OoB making it pointless. Unless you're some kind of special monk that people leave alone to let a 20% health sac regen naturally. What kind of 4v4 are you playing where your point about people needing to attack other team members makes any sense? Youre going to be under pressure in some form or another, so you're going to be healing yourself. The only time I can see no healing needed is if you're getting e-denial.

It's so simple I really dont know why I have to keep saying it

twicky_kid · Mar 06, 2006, 11:28 PM // 23:28

E drain and Drain enchant are more than enough energy mangement. Alternate their uses and you will have an energy boost ever 12 seconds or so. Not as much energy as the old Oob was but much faster without putting yourself in danger. Yes you have to be in range of a target but you wouldn't be healing if you were not taking dmg from something in the first place so that argument is null.

Both double as offensive skills so they are the best choices IMO.

Mantra has too many conditions to be "perfect." Not going to wait 20 seconds for it to get stripped early.

Oob is too much life sac to be used as energy. After healing yourself (you or another monk) that gives you a 4-5 energy gain.

LouAl · Mar 06, 2006, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elurian

if everyone is attacking you then no one is attacking anyone else- Thats why OoB still works.

not sure I'd want to sac 20% of my health while I am the focus of everyone's attacks...10% wasn't bad, but still wasn't something I liked doing. 20% health sac while attacked seems about the same as using holy veil to get rid of backfire on yourself (ouch).

IMO OoB is still useful, but not overpowered (I know it has been said but...).

JR · Mar 06, 2006, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Sadly MoR is absolute trash energy management in GvG. With the current trend of surge/burn mesmers, a MoR monk is going to get their shit pushed in. You get shattered/drained, switch to your negative set, slammed down to 0 energy. Now with Edrain or OoB, you can switch up and spend 5 energy to suddenly get a decent energy pool back. With MoR, you use 10 of your remaining 17 energy, and get nothing for 20 seconds. It just digs you deeper into energy denial.

Same thing when you die, and get ressed. MoR just digs you deeper for 20 seconds, where Edrain or OoB would be an instant benefit.

Not to mention the NUMBERS. Since OoB got changed in the skills update, the numbers for Edrain and OoB work out at about the same when you factor in the self heal after OoB. On top of that, OoB doesn't have the offensive bonus that Edrain does, nor does it allow you to run drain enchantment or distortion. Two skills I love having on my bar as a monk. MoR is still worse than both of them, not to mention as I already covered; a WHOLE lot less stable.

In short, I think Edrain/Drain Enchant seems to be the way forward for monk energy management for now.

Neo-LD · Mar 07, 2006, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keyote

It's so simple I really dont know why I have to keep saying it

Because its not that simple. I said to use devotion signet to conserve energy (so OoB doesnt have to carry the entire load) and to recover your hp after using Offering. Those will work best if you are not under big pressure. However, if you are under significant attack and have to use offering, just be logical. Obviously that isnt the time to use OoB -> Devo Sig. Use OoB and a quick RoF to recover, and use Devo Sig when the coast is clear. Again, using fast spells will cause interupters to move to someone else.

If they just arent leaving you alone, thats called a monk obliteration team. Guess what? If they execute the way they are supposed to, no monk, no matter how good a player or how good a build, will be able to survive. (One memorable example of this I have was an iceprison/blackout mesmer + 2 Dark Aura Spikers + a monk)

The point? If their team is truly dedicated to putting so much pressure on you that its impossible to devotion signet, that means that their defense is suffering because of it: they are doing absolutely nothing to stop your teammates. Thus, your teammates be going nuts dealing damage while easing the pressure and helping you survive. Defense is not just the monk's job.

You may choose to use any form of energy management you wish, it may work out for you or it may not. Im not trying to change your mind, I would just like you to stop trashing 4v4 OoB Boon Prots. They certainly arent terrible like you say, and while there are now more options, they are still #1 for me.

Ultimate Sacrifice · Mar 07, 2006, 12:13 AM // 00:13

This is what I run and, of course, it's not as good as OoB used to be but it works like a charm

Attributes
Divine Favor: 16 (12+1+3)
Protection Prayers: 10 (9+1)
Inspiration Magic: 9 (For 16 energy for E-Drain)

Skills:
Divine Boon
RoF
CoP
PS
Inspired Hex
E-Drain
Guardian
Mend Ailment

koneko · Mar 07, 2006, 12:35 AM // 00:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultimate Sacrifice

This is what I run and, of course, it's not as good as OoB used to be but it works like a charm

Attributes
Divine Favor: 16 (12+1+3)
Protection Prayers: 10 (9+1)
Inspiration Magic: 9 (For 16 energy for E-Drain)

Skills:
Divine Boon
RoF
CoP
PS
Inspired Hex
E-Drain
Guardian
Mend Ailment

If you have CoP, why not Mend Condition instead of Mend Ailment? The former is faster than the latter and you can use CoP for self-condition removal.

I picked up an Inspiration Magic wand/offhand combo and I'm still playing around with Energy Drain...it's just not fast enough. *sigh* After being hooked on the OoB crackpipe for what seems like forever, the 25 second recharge time seems like an eternity.

Ultimate Sacrifice · Mar 07, 2006, 12:35 AM // 00:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by koneko

After being hooked on the OoB crackpipe for what seems like forever, the 25 second recharge time seems like an eternity.

That is so true.

Sephy · Mar 07, 2006, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Mantra has too many conditions to be "perfect." Not going to wait 20 seconds for it to get stripped early.

1) MoR works if it gets stripped. You may wanna read the skill description next time before posting.

2) Learn to use it. Time it. Dont cast MoR when you need energy, but as soon as people are starting to get hit. That way, you will get the energy when you need it.

If you had actually tried running MoR in PvP, you would have seen that it is just as useful as OoB -- not to mention the fact that you get to use other useful skill from the Inspiriation line of skills, whereas Blood Magic doesnt really offer a monk many other interesting options.

Keyote · Mar 07, 2006, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

You may choose to use any form of energy management you wish, it may work out for you or it may not. Im not trying to change your mind, I would just like you to stop trashing 4v4 OoB Boon Prots.

You're right. People did the same thing to me when I tried some P&H combos and found it ok. It's not the greatest energy management but in practice it worked. If OoB works for you, thats what matters.

I'm going with energy drain and divine spirit at the moment, it's working quite well.

N00bz0r · Mar 07, 2006, 02:05 AM // 02:05

Hey, anyone thought abou the combination of succor+P&H?

Adrenal warrior(s) cast succor on you, giving you Xpips of energy.

cast P&H on yourself, giving you 1pip of energy.

1 succor + 1 P&H= 2 extra pips of energy

boon= 3 pips for your enrgy maintenance
boon + succor + P&H= 5 pips for your energy maintenance.

Thoughts?

Manic Smile · Mar 07, 2006, 05:41 AM // 05:41

only problem is it's fragile

Greedy Gus · Mar 07, 2006, 06:49 AM // 06:49

What are you comparing it to? Succor + P&H vs. Succor + MoR/Edrain? You're going to find that the latter is much better.

N00bz0r · Mar 07, 2006, 08:10 AM // 08:10

oh I wasnt comparing it, I was just putting the idea out there.

Keyote · Mar 07, 2006, 12:14 PM // 12:14

Haven't tried it with succor, but I didn't find maintaining enchantments as much of a problem as people say it is. P&H does work along with something else, the good thing about it is not having any long gaps before you get some gain. It's just not as preferable as energy on tap for most monks and I have found e-drain a good choice since switching.