Curse

Echowinds · Mar 03, 2006, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Are you still going to use OOB and Mend ailment?

The update has been a big blow to the build...
And holy veil has been nerfed slightly as well...

Are we going to find better alternatives?

ump · Mar 03, 2006, 08:21 PM // 20:21

This is what I would consider doing for a 4v4 Boon Protect monk. Even before the update, I used Mend Condition as it usually healed more while I used CoP to remove stuff on myself. Mantra of Recall probably was more synergistic with CoP, but I never really got the hang of it because Offering of Blood was just easier to use. Inspired Hex used to be a Resurrection Signet/Protective Spirit, but considering I'm already putting points into Inspiration, I might as well have a real hex removal. I'm not too sure how this would translate to 8v8, because I like to have Aegis and Protective Spirit available to me and take out CoP and use Mend Ailment for more flexibility over Mend Condition. Now, it's hard to lose the Mend Condition and CoP so either my condition removal, my hex removal, or my protection is going to suffer.

Divine: 12+1+1=14
Protection: 9+1=10
Inspiration: 9

1) Reversal of Fortune
2) Guardian
3) Mend Condition - not affected by update, however, can't target self
4) Inspired Hex
5) Holy Veil - still useful to stop stacks, just can't remove as much hexes as before
6) Contemplation of Purity - primary self hex/condition removal
7) Divine Boon
8) Mantra of Recall

Keyote · Mar 03, 2006, 08:32 PM // 20:32

OoB is definitely not worth using now IMO. You'll only gain around 1 extra heal from it per 15 seconds after healing yourself. Thats if you dont kill yourself in the process. I'm looking at P&H, 1 pip will make a much bigger difference than OoB and just cover it with boon.

I'd like to hear from more experienced players why that a bad idea though, because to me the gain looks better than OoB was to begin with.

Keyote · Mar 03, 2006, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Ok my math was wrong...

But P&H now works out about the same as OoB, the difference is you dont lose any health running it.

Nader Syrin · Mar 03, 2006, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Well I tried to tweak the prot boon monk with this build:

Mo/Me

Divine: 15 (12+3)
Prot: 12 (8+1+3)
Inspiration: 10

Skills:
Reversal of Fortune
Guardian/Mend Ailment
Protective spirit
Complementation of Purity
Peace and Harmony (Elite)
Channeling
Ressurection Signet
Divine Boon

Pro:
You'll have cover enchanments on you, which means mesmers needs more time to remove Divine boon on you.

Con:
You'll need to be near atleast 2 energy to regain the -2 energy loss from divine boon, which means you'll be in danger when the enemy swtiches

Please express your thoughts or maybe tweak the build so we can rebuild the boon-prot monks

Yours,
Nader~

Age · Mar 03, 2006, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Why not use blessed aura instead of boon as it is for spells not enchants?

Keyote · Mar 03, 2006, 11:10 PM // 23:10

P&H and channeling sounds like it might work. I'll have to adjust to using 2 slots for energy instead of 1, but it's worth it.

If they'd only hurry up and fix the boss with P&H so I could try it

4runner · Mar 04, 2006, 12:49 AM // 00:49

question? was the nerf to OoB really that big of a deal it was 10 on its 20% sac> is that really that big of a deal?? Just curious!

JYX · Mar 04, 2006, 01:23 AM // 01:23

10% is not an inconsiderable amount anyway, 20% is some bad bad stuff. You need to realise that this active energy management is not particularly wonderous at the best of times, its just that theres not much choice other than we use them. With the 20% health penalty, you're making a little more than 7 energy every time you cast it, thats around about 1.4 pips of extra energy you're gaining as well as putting yourself in danger for a bit...thats 1 extra cast.

In terms of monk energy management, we're already scraping the barrel. This nerf was just salt in the wounds.

noocoo · Mar 04, 2006, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Echowinds

Are you still going to use OOB and Mend ailment?

The update has been a big blow to the build...
And holy veil has been nerfed slightly as well...

Are we going to find better alternatives?

why not use them?
They both were nerf indeed, but they still work.
Just not be as powerful as before.

Echowinds · Mar 04, 2006, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keyote

P&H and channeling sounds like it might work. I'll have to adjust to using 2 slots for energy instead of 1, but it's worth it.

If they'd only hurry up and fix the boss with P&H so I could try it

I find channeling very bad as you need to be quite close to a group in order to use it effectively, and close to a big group = BBQ Monk meat

Esuna · Mar 04, 2006, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Channeling is not too bad - I use it for my boon prot build in "queen farming" right now - the diameter is a bit short of a ward's diameter, which is pretty decent for a cheap enchant like that. Besides, as a monk, you're gonna be sought out anyway. Warriors will come to you, earth eles will chase you down, thumpers will be on your toes - why not use it? :P

Btw @ Nadar Sirin's build, why not use Mantra of Recall rather than Peace and Harmony? Seems like you'll use inspiration magic anyways. Although, I'm not sure on the math about energy regen pipes and what not. Can someone do a comparison between MoR and P&H?

Edit

Read it in another thread: Peace And Stinking Harmony!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murder In China

Wow 1 extra pip of energy, that translate to 1 energy per 3 seconds.

That is pure utter shit compare to other Elite Energy mangement spells.

Offering of Blood at 10 Blood magic nets you 11 energy and recharges every 15 seconds. That translates to 2.2 pips which is an extra 2.2 mana every 3 seconds plus it can't be stripped off since it's a spell.

Mantra of Recall at 10 Inspiration magic nets you 13 and recharges every 20 seconds (or more/less depending on enchantment mods and CoP) which gives you 1.95 pips of energy that translates to 1.95 extra energy every 3 seconds. Even though it's an enchantment can be stripped off, it provides you energy when it ends unlike Peace and Harmony. QuixotesGhost thanks for pointing that out.

Word of Healing is a bit different, it acts like an Orison of Healing OR a Heal Other depending on the ally's health. Heal Other cost 10 energy while Word of Healing cost 5. Say you find that one of your party member's life bar dip under 50%, you cast Word of Healing and it heals as much as Heal Other. You just saveD yourself 5 energy. This means you didn't have to wait 6 seconds to regenerate 10 energy to cast Heal Other on your ally if you had Peace and Harmony on.

Now why do I see PnH as shit?

I guess now we have our answer, lol.

Keyote · Mar 04, 2006, 06:00 PM // 18:00

The problem with MoR is the 10 energy cost. If your energy is running low and you spend 10 energy and wont gain anything back for another 20 seconds, it's completely useless. In that case you need CoP which is another 5 energy and for a boon monk you'll have to spend another 5 putting boon back on meaning you've just spent 20 energy and gain 3. So again thats useless.

With P&H you have a steady stream of energy, although only 5 every 15 secs. Used with channeling it's constant energy coming in.

As far as OoB, he says:

"Offering of Blood at 10 Blood magic nets you 11 energy and recharges every 15 seconds."

In what circumstances can you stand there waiting for natural health regen to gain that 11 energy? Any monk in 4v4 will be under enough pressure they have to self heal after OoB if they haven't already commited suicide, for a boon monk thats 7 lost making a 4 energy gain.

Rukmedes · Mar 05, 2006, 02:58 AM // 02:58

The 20% from oob is 100+ HP for me.

Also, Peace and Harmony = uninstall.

Keyote · Mar 05, 2006, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Then give a better option for a boon monk. OoB?

aB- · Mar 05, 2006, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Right now mantra of recall seems like the best option. If you are contsantly casting it every 20 seconds then you are gaining 13(?) energy every 20 seconds, the equivalent of nearly 2 pips of regeneration. The energy gain is similar to OoB except you receive the energy every 20 seconds instead of every 15. It can be hard to manage at times, but provides a solid amount of energy.

Peace and Harmony just seems too risky to me. If it gets removed, you are left without any energy management until the cooldown ends. The one thing that it has going for it is it can be maintained on 2 monks at once, but again, if it gets removed...

romO · Mar 05, 2006, 09:22 PM // 21:22

I discuss and do the math on the alternatives for energy management on monks in this thread: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=131361

nebuchanezzar · Mar 05, 2006, 09:46 PM // 21:46

IMO MoRs only glaring weakness is after you die. You only come up with E in the teens. Now you have to either leave your MoR alone or cast it and boon and wait and hope no one else dies.
If you were able to boon prot and keep you E in the midling range you will do just fine. MoR means you E bar should be from the 1/2 to full range. The only times I purposely CoP it is if it has recharged early.
IMO MoR does hurt the CoP ability of Boon/Prots as it can force you to remove your MoR earlier than wanted but that can be worked around.

Keyote · Mar 05, 2006, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Numbers are all good, it's the situations that make it so complicated.

MoR would be a decent choice but when your energy is running low it becomes a real problem.

Dodo The Extinct · Mar 05, 2006, 10:00 PM // 22:00

For me, the only real problem with MoR is that it can make easy prey to an above average inturrupter. That was a nice thing about OoB.