Curse

Xiaxhou of Trinity · Feb 15, 2006, 04:19 AM // 04:19

Ok, I see that Nec/r/e are more preferred and that monk is also self sufficient.......Now anything on a N/Mes MM? Would using Arcane Echo your veratas and Blood of the Master+Verata's while the 10 sec downtime of arcane echo, then Offering of the Blood as Elite, Demonic Flesh, and Blood Renewal for life: last two slots Bone Fiends and Bone Horrors?

swippy · Feb 18, 2006, 09:00 PM // 21:00

IMO Heal Area sucks because it doesnt heal every minion...Same with Blood of the Master...now I'm just sticking on VS with Glyph of Renewal or Echo....

David Lionmaster · Feb 18, 2006, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

If you're really determined, N/Mo can keep a minion alive forever. It's not really practical, but it can be done.

not forever, but a while. eventually it is going to get so much degen that you wont be able to keep it from having 10 degen. also, heal area isnt that great once you get blood of the master and vs. with vs you will have a ton of minions, and when they surround you only a couple of them will get healed with heal area. really, vs and blood of the master is all you need to keep them alive for a decent time. gliph of renewal is better for keeping vs on all the time. you arent going to kill yourself, because you shouldnt use those skills enough to kill yourself.

Carinae · Feb 19, 2006, 01:00 AM // 01:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Lionmaster

not forever, but a while. eventually it is going to get so much degen that you wont be able to keep it from having 10 degen.

Yes, forever. As in indefinately. As in hours upon hours in perpituity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Lionmaster

also, heal area isnt that great once you get blood of the master and vs. with vs you will have a ton of minions, and when they surround you only a couple of them will get healed with heal area. really, vs and blood of the master is all you need to keep them alive for a decent time. gliph of renewal is better for keeping vs on all the time. you arent going to kill yourself, because you shouldnt use those skills enough to kill yourself.

Heal Area heals dozens of minions if you use it right. As for why you need HA even with BotM/VS please read my posts above.

squan · Feb 24, 2006, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Well this is my first Post. one of my favorite char is a MM/Mo, i use heal area, but that is not the main reason why i am MM/MO. soulreaping is good, but if you play oro farming i luv essence bond. i put it on warrior. and i never have any energy probs.
and the healing on minnions is good.

Dollztempta · Feb 24, 2006, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Yea, i agree. N/R ftw!

Healing Spring
Serpents Quickness is the key for success being a MM.

N/E with glyphs wont be up forever, i say.

cloudbunny · Feb 25, 2006, 11:15 AM // 11:15

[QUOTE=Carinae Dragonblood]Yes, forever. As in indefinately. As in hours upon hours in perpituity.

Is that true?
I thought minion degen accumulated to higher and higher levels with time (far beyond -10 degen), so you could only sustain them for a limited time, even if you stacked veratas, healing breeze, mending etc, etc on one single minion.

Of course you can keep it going for a long while by also using BoM, and HA etc. But energy and recharge will limit that as well.

I heard about two monks that tried to keep the last minion alive as long as posssible when the necro were afk for some time. They kept it going for quite a while but finally had to give in.

Regards,
Cloudbunny

.killjoy · Feb 25, 2006, 03:13 PM // 15:13

I still dont understand what Soul Reaping Attribute does.. none of the skills appy to it? does it make ur minion skills faster while taking a soul?.. or does it slow the degen of your minions health

thelessa · Feb 25, 2006, 03:21 PM // 15:21

When something dies you get energy from it. If your soul reaping is set at 10, you get +10 energy when something dies. Please correct me if I am wrong

Carinae · Feb 25, 2006, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by cloudbunny

Is that true?
I thought minion degen accumulated to higher and higher levels with time (far beyond -10 degen), so you could only sustain them for a limited time, even if you stacked veratas, healing breeze, mending etc, etc on one single minion.

Of course you can keep it going for a long while by also using BoM, and HA etc. But energy and recharge will limit that as well.

I heard about two monks that tried to keep the last minion alive as long as posssible when the necro were afk for some time. They kept it going for quite a while but finally had to give in.

It's true. You can out-heal their degen in perpetuity. Horrors/Fiends have 440hp, and at max degen lose 20hp/sec, which means they'll last 22 seconds at max degen. Now, BotM+HA heals for 222hp, so about every ten seconds you need to run a BotM+HA cycle. Use OoB for energy management.

I believe this is a N/Mo specialty. Healing Spring is too long casting, and recharges too slowly for N/R to pull it off, and none of the other combos offer healing at all.

I have kept Horrors/Fiends alive for over an hour and was at full health and energy for the duration. I quit because it was obvious that I could keep doing it forever.

If two monks couldn't keep a minion alive, they were terrible monks.

cloudbunny · Feb 26, 2006, 10:31 AM // 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

It's true. You can out-heal their degen in perpetuity. Horrors/Fiends have 440hp, and at max degen lose 20hp/sec, which means they'll last 22 seconds at max degen. Now, BotM+HA heals for 222hp, so about every ten seconds you need to run a BotM+HA cycle. Use OoB for energy management.

Thanks!
I have to try it out!
The reason I doubted it was that in another thread, long ago, someone claimed that minions were not limited to a max degen of -10 (20hp/s). They would by time get higher and higher degen -11....-20....-54 etc, and thus limit perpetual minion armies. This was then discussed as a way to simulate enhanced corpse rottening as well as provide game balance.

I have after that never bothered much with getting huge armies, 10-20 seem to be rather sufficient number most times.

regards,
Cloudbunny

kaldak · Feb 26, 2006, 11:22 AM // 11:22

unless i'm mistaken it works like this: there are 2 degens, the actual one and a hidden one. health can never degen at more than 10 arrows, however when you try to counteract that degen (with VS) the hidden degen comes into play and can counteract the positive arrows, meaning at some point minions will have -10degen with or withour VS cast on them.

heals that are for a set amount instead of regen wont really be effected by this, for them degen caps out at 10.

but i have to ask whats the point in keeping minions going that long? it seems like it would make you almost useless in an actual group when you're trying to focus on keeping any minions alive that long. long distances without battles would require frequent stops and you'd have to be up on the front lines to keep your melee minions healthy in battle, which is a very dangerous place for a mm to be...

personally i'm usually too busy creating minions and keeping up with the group to keep anything but VS up steadily. i only use BotM to top them off occationally before/after a battle

Carinae · Feb 27, 2006, 07:07 AM // 07:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaldak

but i have to ask whats the point in keeping minions going that long? it seems like it would make you almost useless in an actual group when you're trying to focus on keeping any minions alive that long. long distances without battles would require frequent stops and you'd have to be up on the front lines to keep your melee minions healthy in battle, which is a very dangerous place for a mm to be...

No point at all, other than to say you can do it. It's not an actual combat option. However, on another side note, minions earn experience and if you can keep one alive long enough, they can level up.

One day someone will post a screenshot of a level 20 fiend...

houndofhell93 · Feb 27, 2006, 06:52 PM // 18:52

u could me n/me would use a lot more energy and require u to be at ember and have arcane echo and echo but i still beleve it would be difucult i se n/mo the esiest way posible.

Manic Smile · Mar 01, 2006, 11:03 AM // 11:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

If you're really determined, N/Mo can keep a minion alive forever. It's not really practical, but it can be done.

~5min

Carinae · Mar 01, 2006, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manic Smile

~5min

I don't understand what you're saying.

Manic Smile · Mar 02, 2006, 04:33 AM // 04:33

For all that you can keep a minnion alive in perpetuity(never tried this but i guess if you can heal faster then the -10 degen cap then sure) I've found that at around 5 min and that's a big upper end estimation that the next time you go into battle and actually have to kite/raise more minnions/heal you'll lose those minnions so as a max I would say 5min is the length of time at which your minnions for all intense and purposes can be kept alive. Try it in SF or Thristy...have a friend target a specific minnion and do your thing. Have them time how long it takes for that minnion to die...it's usually anywhere from 3 to 5min depending if its getting the HA and BotM and/or what damage it's taking. Fiends tend to last a little longer in this reguard as they stay at range and tend to spread out sometimes.

Samueldg · Mar 02, 2006, 05:41 AM // 05:41

Ive given up my n/r stance..

having done countless runs as a n/mo in topk and SF now.. I can say wihtout hesitation..

n/mo and heal area is easily the best..

In monking on the topk runs nothing sucks more than having to heal your two necros all the time when they dont take any damage.. this leaves your team open for a spike and you recharging a spell that could be useful...

heal area keeps a MM self sufficient... anything else just cant keep up the cast time on troll and healing spring and the problem with haivng to stay in the spring to get any benifit makes a n/r lag behind and slow the whole team.. WITH having degen on minions almost constantly even with veritas going the degen will overwhelm your ability to heal them causeing you to LOOSE more minions because your not moving with purpose to the next area to make more..

the key Ive found is being efficient to the point of over doing it...

botm and veritas cast times cant be avoided so dont add more to your overall cast times and increase the time people wait on you to show up for the next mob fight... heal area is instant and spammable.. just move forward a bit and poof.. healed minions... when you have a " potty break" and your setting there with the orders nec whos also a n/mo and has heal area you can keep your entire army alive long enough for everyone but you to goto the bathroom and get a soda... and they will still live long enough to block efectively enough for more monsters to die and you make more minons...

Carinae · Mar 02, 2006, 06:10 AM // 06:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manic Smile

For all that you can keep a minnion alive in perpetuity(never tried this but i guess if you can heal faster then the -10 degen cap then sure) I've found that at around 5 min and that's a big upper end estimation that the next time you go into battle and actually have to kite/raise more minnions/heal you'll lose those minnions so as a max I would say 5min is the length of time at which your minnions for all intense and purposes can be kept alive. Try it in SF or Thristy...have a friend target a specific minnion and do your thing. Have them time how long it takes for that minnion to die...it's usually anywhere from 3 to 5min depending if its getting the HA and BotM and/or what damage it's taking. Fiends tend to last a little longer in this reguard as they stay at range and tend to spread out sometimes.

Yea, yea, yea. I agreed completely. I was just saying it CAN be done. It's a gimmik, NOT a combat option.

Kasissia · Mar 02, 2006, 03:30 PM // 15:30

I wanna use my N/Me (for dual UW farming) to MM. I heard somewhere that people use pure DM and SR. Is this possible?

It's cuz i dont wanna changed secondary professions each time i decided to switch from SS to MM