Curse

Jenosavel · Feb 17, 2006, 02:48 PM // 14:48

The main problem with Revive Animal is its 20 second recharge. Unless you can force all your pets to die at the same time, it becomes quite inefficient. The only real advantage to using it would be to free up some extra slots, and I don't think the rangers here are really hurting for lack of slots. Also, with the prevalence of interrupters here, the long cast will make it difficult complete your casting of it. Getting it interrupted tags another 20 seconds onto your pets' dead bodies being useless.

I'm really glad to see that at least I'm not the only one who sees the benefit of having some points in Beast, keeping the pet up longer and dishing out some damage with it. With 12 poinst in Beastmastery, having a pet is better than having a permanent Conjure Phantasm running for absolutely free, and that's before you consider your pet's skills. Granted, I wouldn't suggest a full 12 points in this build, but the pet's damage is nothing to be sniffed at. With as little as 9 BM, your pet still does around 13-31 damage (77.1% of 17-41), before the +15% you'd get from a Dire pet or the additional damage the pet attack skills can add on as well.

Also, on the topic of Disrupting Lunge's usefullness, its not meant to be used as a finesse interrupt. You don't wait for a skill to start being used, hit the interrupt, and hope for the best. If you use it like that then the bow interrupts will almost always be better. The real power of Disrupting Lunge is that it's near spammable. You can use it again every 5 seconds and not only does it up your damage output nicely, but you'd be surprised at the number of skills it will catch regardless of what class you're on. Picture it as more of a mobile, single-target, Maelstrom that will interrupt and disable on hit, but hits once every 5 seconds. You cut out all long casts (5 or more seconds) 100% of the time, and unless your opponent is smart enough to purposely cast in the down time (which the enemy AI isn't) then you'll also catch most skills that have a hefty cast time (3 seconds or more). You'll even hit some incredibly short cast skills which would have been next-to-impossible with bow interrupts (disabling Eviscerate anyone?).

infymys · Feb 17, 2006, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Here's a different build that some guildies and I have been using.

R/W
Expertise - 14
Marksmanship -13
BM-9

Barrage
Disrupting Shot
Throw Dirt
Tiger's Fury
"I Will Avenge You!"
Comfort Animal
Charm Animal
Res Signet

Bow-Gargash's Recurve or Elswyth's Recurve

Provided that the other rangers in your group have FW and Winn, this build is designed for rapid fire. IWAY works on pets and minions so wait for a few to die and it will be on pretty much indefinitely. The +33% attack speed stacks with TF so the firing rate along with FW makes you look like a machine gunner. Plus it's also like free Mending. It is recommended that you use a recurve or short bow to maximize your firing speed.

Megla Zero · Feb 17, 2006, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Quick question, and correct me if I'm wrong, but Tigers Fury is a BM skill if I'm not mistaken. With this build, you're basically shoving all of your points into Expertise/Marks and maybe a few into Wilderness.... which means that BM (and coincidentally TF) gets no love and doesn't really benefit at all. That being said, wouldn't Lightning Reflexes be a better substitute instead? Same fire rate (33% I believe... unless I'm mistaken again) except its under the Expertise tab so it lasts for even longer. Thats just my two cents worth on this subject, but the rest looks good. Nice job.

Thock · Feb 17, 2006, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by xiv

if u wanna do REAL damage take out one of the skills ide say sumtin like concussion shot and throw in judges insight and spam it reason ebin is ur against undead which means ull deal double damage becase judges turns ur damage into holy damaga. second is the 20% armour pen which means more damage. and its an enchants so the barrage wun't takeit off. i have used this same tactic on a 5 man fow run with judges insight and barrage adn the damage is far greater than when u use reg barrage.
try it and see

and u dun't need hardly ne smite to git it where u want.

JI changes your damage to holy, which means you are no longer affected by orders.

XvArchonvX · Feb 17, 2006, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by infymys

Here's a different build that some guildies and I have been using.

R/W
Expertise - 14
Marksmanship -13
BM-9

Barrage
Disrupting Shot
Throw Dirt
Tiger's Fury
"I Will Avenge You!"
Comfort Animal
Charm Animal
Res Signet

Bow-Gargash's Recurve or Elswyth's Recurve

Provided that the other rangers in your group have FW and Winn, this build is designed for rapid fire. IWAY works on pets and minions so wait for a few to die and it will be on pretty much indefinitely. The +33% attack speed stacks with TF so the firing rate along with FW makes you look like a machine gunner. Plus it's also like free Mending. It is recommended that you use a recurve or short bow to maximize your firing speed.

That looks like a good build, but it would unfortunately be near worthless at certain parts in ToPK due to the warrior secodary. With a war secondary, chaos touch will keep you blind so often you'll be spamming missed shots almost the whole time...

XvArchonvX · Feb 17, 2006, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thock

JI changes your damage to holy, which means you are no longer affected by orders.

True and chaos touch would keep it shattered too. =(

infymys · Feb 17, 2006, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

That looks like a good build, but it would unfortunately be near worthless at certain parts in ToPK due to the warrior secodary. With a war secondary, chaos touch will keep you blind so often you'll be spamming missed shots almost the whole time...

Granted, this happens but not "almost the whole time." It doesn't make a difference what your secondary is anyways for this to happen. If you have a capable monk in the group with Mend Ailment, it makes this point moot.

gou · Feb 17, 2006, 04:13 PM // 16:13

the only role in this build i haven't played is monk.
Speaking from a mm point of view, quick pet deaths is only handy at the very start of each map to get the undead off the ground. We can use any body, preferably and enemy one. In my experience, longer lasting pets help a lot more than +5 damage on each arrow. I spend more time wating for a necro skill to recharge than I do a body to fall.

Speaking from a ranger point of view: The fact that there is 50/50 split on this issue is a good one, 2 sacrificial pets 3 awesome tanks in each team? If everyone used exactly the same point distribution and skills.... we'd all have favourable winds.

fallot · Feb 17, 2006, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by infymys

Barrage
Disrupting Shot
Throw Dirt
Tiger's Fury
"I Will Avenge You!"
Comfort Animal
Charm Animal
Res Signet

Thats very interesting, I hadnt thought about using this skill. It'll be a lot like old Tombs

JoeKnowMo · Feb 17, 2006, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Here's a build we ran last night in Tombs. Worked incredibly well considering it was the first time running it for the whole group. It was a pug w no TS or vent.

6 Rangers, 1 MM, 1 Healer

2 or more R/N with Mark of Pain (10-12 attribute points in Curses)
Mark of Pain
Dual Shot
Savage Shot
Barrage
Charm Animal
Comfort Animal
Skill of choice
Rez Sig

Rest of the Rangers:
Ignite Arrows
Dual Shot
Savage Shot
Barrage
Charm Animal
Comfort Animal
FW/Winnow/Skill of Choice
Res Skill

Put down spirits. Ignite arrows.
1 Ranger call Mark of Pain on target in group, all follow with dual shot and savage shot. Target is likely to run so don't chase too much.
2nd Ranger calls Mark of Pain on another target. All follow with dual shot and savage shot.
Then Barrage away.
If they're not dead. The MoP targets will return and barrage will catch them and spread dmg again.

The initial spike is awesome. 3 (Dual Shot, Savage shot) x 34 x 6 = over 600 Aoe dmg + 4 x 3 (Dual, Savage) x 13 (from Ignite Arrows at 10 WS) = over 750 AoE in under 5 seconds. The follow-up spike is pretty sweet too.

We cleared out several mobs at once on many occasions.

No orders Nec needed. Note that R/N will likely have no points in WS.

Barrage removes ignite but it should be used only after the first 2 spikes, so ignite still does some good damage. Ignite, unlike Kindle, will keep ur dmg as physical.

Kudos to Zeparoth for coming up with this. I played a secondary role in putting it together and therefore will take a teensy weensy bit of the credit.

Rangers must have the ability to follow calls (duh) and save barrage for after the first 2 spikes.

Isn't so great against solo or spread out monsters, like wurms.

SnipiousMax · Feb 21, 2006, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyberstar

hmm i never have points in Bm cuz i simply dont have spare points with 16Marks and 13 Exp. the pet IS there to die for MM or as a shield till MM has minion.....let me know if im wrong plz

Well the difference in Damage between 16 and say 13 marks isn't tremendous. And you're pet will die regardless. It just lets you have a little extra damage sprikled in. You don't really need much in WS (even if you bring winnow) so you could easily have 10 in BM and still be very effective as a Barrager.

XvArchonvX · Feb 21, 2006, 02:07 AM // 02:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by infymys

Granted, this happens but not "almost the whole time." It doesn't make a difference what your secondary is anyways for this to happen. If you have a capable monk in the group with Mend Ailment, it makes this point moot.

one blind ranger = one useless body the monk has to heal unless they use throw dirt or rez their pet. Not only this, but since only warriors get conditions in ToPK, I doubt many monks bring mend ail or other similar spells with them in a B/P group, though I have admittedly not used my monk in this build yet, so I may be mistaken...

SnipiousMax · Feb 21, 2006, 05:54 AM // 05:54

I've not recieved a condtion with either /mes or /mo secondary.

Though I imagine that's how they'll nerf it when it comes! Rangers are suddenly the target of the nasty blindness!

XvArchonvX · Feb 21, 2006, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

I've not recieved a condtion with either /mes or /mo secondary.

Though I imagine that's how they'll nerf it when it comes! Rangers are suddenly the target of the nasty blindness!

If I'm not mistaken, the only way to have a condition put on you in ToPK is to have a warrior primary or secondary and be attacked by an enemy using chaos tough. I used to use my tank in a balanced team in ToPK and was always flooded with conditions. I found plague touch worked well with that since I was generally at melee range, but grasps using "fear me" did run me dry of energy which kept me from using Plague Touch often =(

Razorfish · Feb 21, 2006, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

If I'm not mistaken, the only way to have a condition put on you in ToPK is to have a warrior primary or secondary and be attacked by an enemy using chaos tough.

The grasps can inflict a Deep Wound condition regardless of primary/secondary professions, and Burning (On Fire) is inflicted via Immolate or Mark of Rodgort + fire dmg, but the other conditions are reserved for Warriors via Fingers of Chaos. You usually don't notice it because your pets are soaking up the conditions for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

I doubt many monks bring mend ail or other similar spells with them in a B/P group, though I have admittedly not used my monk in this build yet

I think this is because:
1) the prevalent opinion is that "pure" healers (primarily Healing Prayers) are the best for B/P groups (I disagree)
2) there are very few threatening conditions in the Tombs UW (mainly Deep Wound and Burning, unless you have characters with Warrior secondary)

SnipiousMax · Feb 21, 2006, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

If I'm not mistaken, the only way to have a condition put on you in ToPK is to have a warrior primary or secondary and be attacked by an enemy using chaos tough. =(

Yes I know...but what I'm saying is, with so many people abusing the B/P build...its only a matter of time before some nerf kicks in. A very effective one would be making Rangers subject to blind like the warriors are.

Jenosavel · Feb 21, 2006, 09:12 PM // 21:12

I'd like to think that the area won't need a nerf. What with pet rangers getting frowned upon by the general populace (not that that really means anything) nearly everywhere but here, I say let the pet rangers actually have a place to enjoy as well!

xxinsainxx · Feb 24, 2006, 01:47 AM // 01:47

Why do people insists on taking winnowing. read the skill description. any creature in the area so basicaly ur killing ur minnions even faster with it because winnowing gives the enemy more dmg as well. sort of redundant if u want ur minnions alive.

koneko · Feb 24, 2006, 01:57 AM // 01:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxinsainxx

Why do people insists on taking winnowing. read the skill description. any creature in the area so basicaly ur killing ur minnions even faster with it because winnowing gives the enemy more dmg as well. sort of redundant if u want ur minnions alive.

It also gives your party's five rangers +damage per arrow. The minions/horrors are more like cushions (tanks) that keep you away from the monsters and to keep you ^_____^ as opposed to x_x.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

I doubt many monks bring mend ail or other similar spells with them in a B/P group, though I have admittedly not used my monk in this build yet

If you know what you're doing when you're playing a monk, you should be able to heal right through the conditions and keep everyone up. No need for removal since they'll just get thrown on again.

iceypain · Feb 24, 2006, 02:09 AM // 02:09

Quote:

The pets are not there as tanks (well, they are to an extent). They are there as fodder for the MM. Their only function is to provide some quick bodies and to hold aggro until those become available.

Exactly what I was thinking.. why are you guys wasting points in beast mastery!? Dang.
---------------
Marksmanship - 15
Expertise - 13

---------------
Throw Dirt
Distracting Shot
Savage Shot
Barrage
Lightning Reflexes/Spirit
Charm Animal
Comfort Animal
Rebirth
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Easy enough..