Curse

Kez Taqir · Feb 14, 2006, 01:15 PM // 13:15

Have to say that I disagree with Throw Dirt not being so good. I had never used it before, but was impressed when it saved my life on the few occasions that grasps managed to slip around our meat shield. As grasps are the only target that you would be using it on, I think it was very effective.

anomalous_tls · Feb 15, 2006, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Also tried this for the first time last night. First time down there too, 50mins. Very impressed.

Must remember to not have a brain fade at the beginning in equipping RtW... mmm... preparations and barrage... *drools*

I noticed that a bit of the time was spent standing around waiting for patrols to go through, might Healing Spring be good to help out with the MM and Orders Necros in this situation?

If it heals the minions, all well and good. If it doesnt, at least the Necros can stand in it while they're slitting their wrists, might takes the pressure off the Monk and their energy. (both in the waiting times and in battle)

If it was a cohesive enough group, it might have another application if the rangers all managed to stick in the same area. Of course, most PUG's will have differently ranged bows, different brains, different everythings.

cheers,
anom

Warskull · Feb 15, 2006, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Finger of Chaos lets Grasps hit rangers through blind. Thus you are better off Crippling a grasp (pin down) that is after your monk or turning on whirling to defend yourself.

The pets aren't there for damage, they are there as corpses and a delay. No need to put points in beast mastery, crank the barrage damage up.

Wessels · Feb 15, 2006, 09:54 AM // 09:54

Quote:

Here's what i used

Barrage
Distracting shot
Concussion shot
Winnowing/Fav winds/Predatory season (check with team who's taking what)
Throw dirt
Comfort Animal
Charm Animal
Healing spring

you do not take predatory season , it's absolutely usless for the barrage /pet teams and if you have the classic setup of team :
-rangers with pets/barrage
-orders necro
-minion master
-monk

predatory season will do more harm than good . Look at the skills description for it :

all healing is reduced by 20%, not advisable at all.I'd take tiger's fiury instead.

Kez Taqir · Feb 15, 2006, 12:30 PM // 12:30

Not totally convinved that Fingers of Chaos lets Grasps hit Rangers after they have used Throw Dirt on them. I know you can't dodge or block them but if something is blind they can't hit you anyway. I was down again last night and it seemed to work just fine, unless of course I was disrupting them which is a possibility.

All I know for sure is that for whatever reason after using Throw Dirt I have never taken damage while a Grasp is aggroing me

GloryFox · Feb 15, 2006, 04:53 PM // 16:53

There are many Builds for the Barrage Pet Rangers and I take offense at the no monk secondary comment. Somtimes the stay power of your animal can be more important than most people realize. After 30+ ToPK runs I have found the ability to raise your animal with ^50% HP and begin blocking to be just as important as a well placed Dryder or Siege worm Concussion Shot.

My build is as follows and seems to work great.
Beast Mastery 16 Mask and Sup Rune
Expertease 10 Minor Rune
Wilderness Survival 4 Minor Rune
Markmanship 10 Minor Rune

Skills:
Barrage (increased damage to 11)
(Interupt) for example: Savage Shot (23 damage) or Concussion Shot :-)
Tigers Fury (Lasts 11 seconds)
Call of Protection (Damage Reduction 15)
Charm Animal (Obvious)
Comfort Animal (Animal Raised with 61% Health and 110 HP when Healed)
Troll (+5 Regen for 10 seconds)
Rebirth (This has saved the game many times)

Yes I relize the MM needs foder, and he will have his foder. And yes my damage is slightily lower but my animal blocking last a few more, somtimes needed, seconds. I have found the ability to get my animal back into the fight just as important as the MM createing Minions. Plus if we have a bad MM as has happened from time to time stay power becomes that much more important.

Furthermore I use a Vampire Bow 5/1 for extra damage and Health regeneration vs most things, and a Long Bow that has elemental resistance 7 when fighting the Dryders.

fallot · Feb 15, 2006, 05:32 PM // 17:32

1) Barrage: Necessary, for obvious reasons.

2) Interrupt of choice: Useful for wurms on 3rd and 4th maps. Also helps against Terrorwebs etc.

3) Throw Dirt: Essential skill. Grasps are undoubtedly the most dangerous thing in Tombs for a Barrage group, two or three that slip through can decimate your team. And yes, TD does work against Fingers of Chaos.

4) Favorable Winds/Winnowing: Favorable is more important, Winnowing is just an added bonus.

5) Charm Animal: Duh

6) Comfort Animal: Duh

7) Resurrection: Signet/Rebirth.

8) Skill of choice: A free slot

You should have at least 13 Expertise and 14-16 Marksmanship. There is no excuse for not pumping these attributes, its the only thing you should be using. 13 expertise is the break-point for 5e skills (Barrage in this case).

The pets are not there as tanks (well, they are to an extent). They are there as fodder for the MM. Their only function is to provide some quick bodies and to hold aggro until those become available. I cant understand why a group would lower their speed and effectiveness by putting points into BM or using CoP or CoH.

Celeborn · Feb 15, 2006, 06:42 PM // 18:42

I've just ascended my ranger, and my pet is only lvl 11. Is a lvl20 pet required for this, or is a lower lvl pet better because it dies quicker, therefore letting the MM make minions faster?

kc99 · Feb 15, 2006, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celeborn

I've just ascended my ranger, and my pet is only lvl 11. Is a lvl20 pet required for this, or is a lower lvl pet better because it dies quicker, therefore letting the MM make minions faster?

Just take it anyway, it'll be fine and will prob be lvl 20 by the time you come out.

Celeborn · Feb 15, 2006, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by kc99

Just take it anyway, it'll be fine and will prob be lvl 20 by the time you come out.

lol, ok, thanks.

XvArchonvX · Feb 16, 2006, 07:30 PM // 19:30

I just tried out this using my ranger in a barrage/pet group last night and I'm really impressed and really happy that I can now use my ranger for farming!

I did however find throw dirt to be near useless since most of the enemies were far away and attacking the pets. I'm tempted to replace that skill with Judges insight, but I'm not sure I'd want to spread my attributes that thin. I did also find that I had almost no energy problems and switched to my dracescale armor from druids armor about halfway through for the extra fire protection.

I also used distracting lunge, but I found it very hard to control and interupt at the right time since I had to watch my pet, wait for him to attack the enemy I wanted to interupt, then use the skill at the right time. I found myself just spamming it at the end when I could so that my pet would do the extra dmg. Also the fact that the skill was useless when my pet was dead became a hinderance. I'm considering bringing serpents quickness next time for the faster barrage fire rate.

Tigers fury doesn't make much sense to me since you are really limited by the recharge time of barrage more than your actual refire rate.

Anyways, I'll mess with my skills and try this out again tonight and post here if I find something that works better for me...

XvArchonvX · Feb 16, 2006, 07:41 PM // 19:41

I also have a question for those who have done this team build often. I noticed in all the builds listed here, revive animal is not used. I have admittedly never tried this skill, but from it's description here on Guru, it does not seem to cause the 8 second skill recharge that comfort animal does and also ressurects allies pets. In theory this skill seems like it would work really well here.

fallot · Feb 16, 2006, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by XcArchonvX

I did however find throw dirt to be near useless since most of the enemies were far away and attacking the pets. I'm tempted to replace that skill with Judges insight, but I'm not sure I'd want to spread my attributes that thin. I did also find that I had almost no energy problems and switched to my dracescale armor from druids armor about halfway through for the extra fire protection.

You are going to regret not bringing Throw Dirt. Your good fortune will not hold forever. It is the only defense you have against a grasp that manages to evade the minions and pets. Also, its not even meant to be for you, its supposed to save your monk and necros.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

I also used distracting lunge, but I found it very hard to control and interupt at the right time since I had to watch my pet, wait for him to attack the enemy I wanted to interupt, then use the skill at the right time. I found myself just spamming it at the end when I could so that my pet would do the extra dmg. Also the fact that the skill was useless when my pet was dead became a hinderance. I'm considering bringing serpents quickness next time for the faster barrage fire rate.

I think you need to understand bow attacks a little better. Serpent's Quickness will not help you in any way. Unless there is a bow with a refire rate better than 1 second, Serpent's Quickness is the last thing you need.

Think about it. How long does it take for one Barrage to go off ? Answer, the speed at which an arrow would normally leave your bow. Is that time shorter than 1 second ? No. Will shortening it further make any difference to your Barrage rate ? No.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

I also have a question for those who have done this team build often. I noticed in all the builds listed here, revive animal is not used. I have admittedly never tried this skill, but from it's description here on Guru, it does not seem to cause the 8 second skill recharge that comfort animal does and also ressurects allies pets. In theory this skill seems like it would work really well here.

The 6 second activation time doesnt help, but its mostly because you want to be as self-sufficient as possible in a PUG. If the guy with Revive drops or decides to be an ass you're powerless. If you think the answer is more people bringing Revive then that defeats the point of the skill which was to save an extra slot by removing Comfort Animal. Still, it can be used just as effectively in a good group.

Draracle · Feb 16, 2006, 07:59 PM // 19:59

I use more pet skills and turn my pet into a tank while I barrage.
I prefer comfort because of the healing powers and you don't have to stand on the pet to pick him up.
This build works very well, at least it did for me. However, I hate these canned builds because people just latch on to the first build that works well. I don't like going to various farm areas and everyone people requesting a certain build. Barrage/Pet is the build of choice in tombs and if I want to bring my mesmer I get very little attention. My guild used a balanced build and tore up the tombs, I got to mesmer. In fact, the balanced build did better in the tough parts of the map than the pet/barrage.

Wessels · Feb 16, 2006, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

I don't like going to various farm areas and everyone people requesting a certain build. Barrage/Pet is the build of choice in tombs and if I want to bring my mesmer I get very little attention. My guild used a balanced build and tore up the tombs, I got to mesmer. In fact, the balanced build did better in the tough parts of the map than the pet/barrage.

I understand what you mean, but folks take these builds for a reason : they work .

One thing I don't really like is that they simply copy the builds and go with them ( without studying skill descriptions to see why a build works ) and without being innovative . I ususally study the skills in the "standard-builds " and adjust those builds to something I like. There is little fun in copying a build and simply go with the flow .The advantage of the pet/barrage teams are also that it is an extremely fast team - if implemented correctly - whereas a balanced team ususally takes longer to complete the area .

Having said that : in my opinion tombs-uw is in fact "mesmer-country " , the tough foes are mesmers , and it's therefore very wise to have a mesmer in a balanced team. However the thread here is about barrage/pet teams specifically.

XvArchonvX · Feb 17, 2006, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by fallot

I think you need to understand bow attacks a little better. Serpent's Quickness will not help you in any way. Unless there is a bow with a refire rate better than 1 second, Serpent's Quickness is the last thing you need.

Think about it. How long does it take for one Barrage to go off ? Answer, the speed at which an arrow would normally leave your bow. Is that time shorter than 1 second ? No. Will shortening it further make any difference to your Barrage rate ? No.

I phrased this as a question because I was unsure how much bow draw time would restrict spamming of the skill if recharge time was decreased. This is why I said I was 'considering' the skill. I have not tested it and thus posted here to hear if anyone had done such already.

XvArchonvX · Feb 17, 2006, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by fallot

The 6 second activation time doesnt help, but its mostly because you want to be as self-sufficient as possible in a PUG. If the guy with Revive drops or decides to be an ass you're powerless. If you think the answer is more people bringing Revive then that defeats the point of the skill which was to save an extra slot by removing Comfort Animal. Still, it can be used just as effectively in a good group.

I had not noticed the 6 second activation time. As for whether the person with Revive leaves or does not use it, I would not be powerless under my implied use of the skill since I had considered it as a supplement rather then a replacement to comfort animal. If this skill also requires standing over the pet, then I would see where this would not be practical.

Studio Ghibli · Feb 17, 2006, 07:30 AM // 07:30

I didn't realize B/Ps put points into beast mastery. I took my pet to die for the minion master, and that was about it. o_o

Cyberstar · Feb 17, 2006, 02:16 PM // 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Studio Ghibli

I didn't realize B/Ps put points into beast mastery. I took my pet to die for the minion master, and that was about it. o_o

hmm i never have points in Bm cuz i simply dont have spare points with 16Marks and 13 Exp. the pet IS there to die for MM or as a shield till MM has minion.....let me know if im wrong plz

xiv · Feb 17, 2006, 02:25 PM // 14:25

if u wanna do REAL damage take out one of the skills ide say sumtin like concussion shot and throw in judges insight and spam it reason ebin is ur against undead which means ull deal double damage becase judges turns ur damage into holy damaga. second is the 20% armour pen which means more damage. and its an enchants so the barrage wun't takeit off. i have used this same tactic on a 5 man fow run with judges insight and barrage adn the damage is far greater than when u use reg barrage.
try it and see

and u dun't need hardly ne smite to git it where u want.