Curse

Zinphin · Mar 09, 2006, 04:53 AM // 04:53

Title says it all.. i searched already and couldnt find anything. What does it actually effect and how?

kvndoom · Mar 09, 2006, 07:38 AM // 07:38

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...nics-id674.php

If you don't meet the requirement, your weapon does a very minimal amount of damage. However, even if you DO meet it, your weapon will not do 100% of its full damage unless you have 12 in your weapon attribute (except for the rare req 13 weapon that comes along). Only fools pay a ton extra for req 7 or 8 weapons, when they need 12 attribute points to do its full damage anyway.

In other words, a req 7 max damage sword will NOT give you 15-22 damage at 7 swords. It will give you 9-14 damage, and you'll wonder why your monk is killing enemies faster with her Holy Rod. Regardless of the sword's requirement, you will not be doing 15-22 damage until you have 12 points in swords.

Haggard · Mar 09, 2006, 07:42 AM // 07:42

so a req 12 something is the exact same dmg as a req 7 something at lvl 12 attribute?

stool_cannon · Mar 09, 2006, 11:24 AM // 11:24

KVN are you sure about that? Where is it documented?

Poison Ivy · Mar 09, 2006, 11:32 AM // 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by stool_cannon

KVN are you sure about that? Where is it documented?

He's lieing, I'm selling a Req. 7 rare IDS btw, only 100k + a couple million ectos and shards.

Niosisw · Mar 09, 2006, 12:31 PM // 12:31

KVN what you are saying is crazy...

9-14 with a max sword at 7 req? No, I know from exp that's not true at all.

Maybe it will do 9-14 on something with better armor, but that has to do with the enemies armor.

Weeping Wind · Mar 09, 2006, 12:40 PM // 12:40

Quote:

He's lieing, I'm selling a Req. 7 rare IDS btw, only 100k + a couple million ectos and shards.

Ok. You should stop riding this thread and post it where it belongs... And calling someone a lier to sell your weapon...

I think what he is saying is true. But of cause you have to take armour into account. Even if you had a req. 12 weapon and put 12 into the attribute slot if the enemy you are attacking is using high armour defense skills then obviously you are going to do less. If you still did the max damage then there would be no need for armour in the game would there :P

Weeping

Rajamic · Mar 09, 2006, 12:54 PM // 12:54

What KVN said is somewhat true, somewhat false due to oversimplification. But it is the way players talk about the game, because it's much simpler to understand and discuss than the completely accurate truth.

When you get down to it, there is no such thing as 100% damage based on attributes, as far as the game is concerned. Attribute levels and Armor levels balance each other out evenly, at least through attribute level 12 and AL 60. In that span, 1 Attribute level = 5 AL.

Thus why it made sense in the game's design to have attributes cap at 12 from points and standard end-game caster armor be AL 60. And for simplicity of understanding in the minds of humans, particularly those of us that can't do high level math without scratch paper, we consider 12 in a weapon attribute and 60 AL to be the standards. There's no reason 0 and 0 or 5 and 25 could not have been used. But 12 and 60 makes more sense, since that is what you see end-game for player characters.

If you treat less than 12 in the Weapon attribute as being less that 100% damage, you also have to think of armor in a way the less than 60 AL amplifies damage. The above linked article does a pretty good job of showing that in the chart on AL.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haggard

so a req 12 something is the exact same dmg as a req 7 something at lvl 12 attribute?

If two weapons are identical except for the requirement, and your attribute level meets or exceeds both requirements, then yes, they will act exactly the same. Lower requirements are only valuable for 2 reasons:
1) They provide greater build flexibility. For example, and Interrupt Ranger doesn't care all that much about how much damage they deal, so having 12+ Marksmanship isn't usually desired. Having a bow with 9 Marks requirement will still be better than a Marks 12 bow, becuase they can drop their Marksmanship lower without having the bottom completely fall out on their damage output.
2) Misunderstanding. Some people believe that the farther above the requirement you are, the higher critical hit rate you have. However, no tests have ever been able to prove this is true.

Battle Torn · Mar 09, 2006, 01:20 PM // 13:20

/agreed

only scammers truly want you to beleive that a req 7-8 anything is more powerful than req 12. Low requirments only allow you use them with lower lvl char etc and who doesnt have 12 attribute in sword or axe anyway if they are a warrior? dont mention riposte/smite builds for UW I get it already... no one will play with less that 12 in their primary if they wish to attack normaly as well as use skills.

Amsterdam · Mar 09, 2006, 04:12 PM // 16:12

lvl % of damage mod
0 35.6%
1 38.6%
2 42.0%
3 45.9%
4 50.0%
5 54.5%
6 59.5%
7 64.8%
8 70.7%
9 77.1%
10 84.1%
11 91.7%
12 100%
13 104%
14 107%
15 111%
16 115%

So you should clearly always have your req 12 just as many stated above me. I think people want low req things all the time for a few reasons, cause they want the best for starters. Also because they may use things like stance builds and builds that don't need to do MUCH damge, so they just have the req at 7 8 or 9. This way they can keep other attributes alot higher.

holden · Mar 09, 2006, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by stool_cannon

KVN are you sure about that? Where is it documented?

dude put the freakin link right in his post. and all you guys are calling him crazy.....
everyone of you needs to read ensign's post that KVN put in his reply

that you failed to even open before calling him a liar or asking if he's sure.

12 is the magic number. 16 makes people die. but i love it when wammos put 13 in health and 9 in weapon. STRONGBAD

Mr.H.Mishima · Mar 09, 2006, 05:01 PM // 17:01

OK, at first I was going to disagree, but then I thought of something I did last night...I added a Zealous hilt to a req 12 sword trying out a new build, and left LA to do an Ettin run. I usually kill the Fire Imps because they seem to drop a lot of Charcoal for me...anyway, I usually carry a reg 8 Gladius and do somewhere in 40 to 50 damage on a normal swing to the Imps. I was hitting them for 71 damage 9/10 times with no skills at all with my req 12 Flamberge.

Here's the kicker: I ALWAYS have 15 in sword for this farming run no matter what the build.

fallot · Mar 09, 2006, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hells Last Survivor

Here's the kicker: I ALWAYS have 15 in sword for this farming run no matter what the build.

The other sword doesnt have a Fiery mod does it ?

Mr.H.Mishima · Mar 09, 2006, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by fallot

The other sword doesnt have a Fiery mod does it ?

Of course not. Barbed Hilt.

fallot · Mar 09, 2006, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hells Last Survivor

Of course not. Barbed Hilt.

Odd. Mind posting some screenshots ?

Mr.H.Mishima · Mar 09, 2006, 06:44 PM // 18:44

No, not at all. I'll try and grab some tonight.

holden · Mar 09, 2006, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by fallot

Odd. Mind posting some screenshots ?

only odd if you can't read. he used a sword with req8 while his attribute was at 15 and did so much damage. then he used a sword with req12 with his attribute still at 15 and did even more damage.

hmmmmmm

i think that's what KVN was talking about in his post.
amsterdam as well with the chart he posted.

Effect of Attributes on Weapon DamageAttribute
Level Percent of
Weapon Damage
0 35.6%
1 38.6%
2 42.0%
3 45.9%
4 50.0%
5 54.5%
6 59.5%
7 64.8%
8 70.7%
9 77.1%
10 84.1%
11 91.7%
12 100%
13 104%
14 107%
15 111%
16 115%

As an example, if you had a normal, customized (20% more damage) 15-22 damage Dragon Sword, and a level 9 Swordsmanship attribute, each swing with the weapon would deal:

15 × 1.20 × 2(( 5 × 9 - 60 ) / 40) = 13.88 minimum damage
22 × 1.20 × 2(( 5 × 9 - 60 ) / 40) = 20.36 maximum damage

While swinging the same sword with a level 12 attribute would deal:

15 × 1.20 × 2(( 5 × 12 - 60 ) / 40) = 18.0 minimum damage
22 × 1.20 × 2(( 5 × 12 - 60 ) / 40) = 26.4 maximum damage

Mr.H.Mishima · Mar 09, 2006, 08:48 PM // 20:48

This could turn the market on it's head if people ever read this thread. Let me go buy all those Req 12 and 13 axes and swords before people get wind of this....

/runs off

kvndoom · Mar 09, 2006, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Mannn... Try to help people and they turn up the flames in denial, eh?

Ivy's post was sarcasm, for those who missed it.

It was the main reason I switched to Watchful Spirit instead of Mending for most of my W/Mo farming builds. Why put 8 points in healing when you can get +2 regen for free and put those points elsewhere? I used to believe all you had to do was meet the requirements also, before I found Ensign's page. And his info is straight from Anet, so flame him all you want if you desire to be humbled.

If you're still not convinced that your 25 million gold Furious Sundering Crystalline Sword of Vital Blessing Fortitude doesn't do jack shit for damage at its "required" level 7, it's very easy to prove because of one simple fact: you can INCREASE your attribute levels in a mission or instance.

So find a realtively easy farming spot, where you can whack away at the baddies without worrying about healing. Enemies should be at or close to your level. Leave town with your weapon attribute only at its req level, but enough spare points to raise it up to 12 gradually. Start beating up the monsters, taking a good look at the numbers. Go to the Hero screen and raise your weapon level up 1 point. Look at the numbers again. Do this all the way until you get to 12. THEN come back and call me a liar, please.

But I'm sure someone will, regardless, just so he can feel smug about all the money he wasted. Just the same as his Fissure armor can magically absorb more damage than my desert collectors'.

Mr.H.Mishima · Mar 09, 2006, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Hey, you'll get no denial from me...I've seen it with my own eyes...I was completely shocked when I was seeing the numbers for damage last night.

I WILL post the screens tonight just so the non-believers will have their photographic proof.

Oh, and I really suck at Photoshop.