Curse

Two April Mornings · Mar 07, 2006, 11:47 PM // 23:47

mesmers could own with a p, pwn, boon prots

JR · Mar 07, 2006, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murder In China

The Booner will have their energy mangement shut down due to Signet of Humility. So all that extra mana on the reserves to heal then swap back will trigger Mind Wrack which slowly kills the monk.

So you take 95 damage from Mind Wrack, and then heal through it with a Signet of Devotion for 106 (which can be cast every 5 seconds). While all of this is happening, your energy is safely regenerating in your primary set, so if you really needed to you could swap down and use a reversal.

Believe me. The last two GvG's I remember where I was playing boon prot was against Ronin Corps and Storm Bearers. Both of them were running two surge/burn/sow mesmers, one of which sat on my face all the way through each game. With a warrior heavy offense we couldn't even really pressure them, thanks to distortion. However, with focus swapping I was not only able to heal myself, but other members of my team.

Murder In China · Mar 08, 2006, 01:09 AM // 01:09

That's IF the booner carries Signet of Devotion.

Lady Callingwell · Mar 08, 2006, 08:40 AM // 08:40

This thread is pretty worthless imho, every single character can counter every other character as soon as they know the opposing skill list in advance...

glountz · Mar 08, 2006, 09:04 AM // 09:04

Mantra of Inscription + Signet of Humility hurts, JR. Did the team you encountered were bearing it?
106 signet of Devotion is at 16 Divine Favor. Boon prot monks usually run high DF, but with their 10 Blood/Insp magic, it's not that high. And SoD is not in the usual boon prot skill set, but I agree to see it more and more due to dual surgers' abundance.
Hmm, I'm sure a boon prot can't win the match (as it has no offense), but I think the mesmer could eventually win the struggle anyway.

Avarre · Mar 08, 2006, 09:22 AM // 09:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

So you take 95 damage from Mind Wrack, and then heal through it with a Signet of Devotion for 106 (which can be cast every 5 seconds). While all of this is happening, your energy is safely regenerating in your primary set, so if you really needed to you could swap down and use a reversal.

Believe me. The last two GvG's I remember where I was playing boon prot was against Ronin Corps and Storm Bearers. Both of them were running two surge/burn/sow mesmers, one of which sat on my face all the way through each game. With a warrior heavy offense we couldn't even really pressure them, thanks to distortion. However, with focus swapping I was not only able to heal myself, but other members of my team.

Hellu gentlemen, but we speak of 1v1! 'we couldn't even really pressure them, thanks to distortion' means your team was attacking, and they were kiting.

You can't spam veil. I can put diversion up and catch your skills one by one till I wand you dead, if I have to. I could bring shatter enchant too, considering I have fairly high domination. I gave you a very basic outline framework of a build, you've made assumptions only to counter the skills I listed. I have played boonprot however, and know most of the features of it... I also know every time you swap focus, 90~ damage goes your way. You're also assuming the mesmer wont get a burn in just as you swap foci, giving you a swift 170~ kick in the pants. I could even bring ignorance, just to mess with SoD. We're not talking that X build could beat Y, were talking that a mesmer, properly set, can defeat any other class.

Thread derailing... anyways, why would, assuming you knew a 1v1 was imminent, play a boon monk? Lets consider this to be the proposed '1v1 arena', why would you play a booner? Pure grief attempt?

JR · Mar 08, 2006, 09:22 AM // 09:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

Mantra of Inscription + Signet of Humility hurts, JR. Did the team you encountered were bearing it?

I've had it used on me a couple of times, it wasn't really that big of a deal. When you are used to a 25 second recharge on your elite energy management anyway, it's not hard to deal without it for a while.

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

106 signet of Devotion is at 16 Divine Favor. Boon prot monks usually run high DF, but with their 10 Blood/Insp magic, it's not that high.

Boon prots should be running 16 Divine, 9 Prot, 10 Inspiration.

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

And SoD is not in the usual boon prot skill set, but I agree to see it more and more due to dual surgers' abundance.

Exactly, which is why I run it all the time now.

Anyway, as stated this thread is a bit pointless. 1 vs 1 situations are entirely unrealistic, I just got caught up trying to prove a point.

Avarre · Mar 08, 2006, 09:26 AM // 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

it's not hard to deal without it for a while.

You do realize you will be dealing without it for the ENTIRE conflict, not just awhile? 12 insp SoH is constant. Anyways, I doubt the booner would survive still... say I shatter boon, you switch to recast, take wrack damage, I shatter again... and so on. You wouldn't be able to keep your health up, especially (as you're specifying your equipment) if I brought a necro wand to trigger your RoF with.

JR · Mar 08, 2006, 09:28 AM // 09:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

You can't spam veil. I can put diversion up and catch your skills one by one till I wand you dead, if I have to.

If I was enough of a retard to cast through it every time, yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

I could bring shatter enchant too, considering I have fairly high domination.

You think I would be stupid enough to use enchants vs. a Dom mesmer?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

I gave you a very basic outline framework of a build, you've made assumptions only to counter the skills I listed.

Wrong. I told you what I usually use, and how I would counter it with that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

You're also assuming the mesmer wont get a burn in just as you swap foci,

Is it that hard to time a focus swap to the recharge of burn and surge?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

I could even bring ignorance, just to mess with SoD. We're not talking that X build could beat Y, were talking that a mesmer, properly set, can defeat any other class.

And I am telling you that the boon prot that I run, which I would consider a fairly common build, would not get dropped by a single mesmer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Thread derailing... anyways, why would, assuming you knew a 1v1 was imminent, play a boon monk? Lets consider this to be the proposed '1v1 arena', why would you play a booner? Pure grief attempt?

I was considering something along the lines of... you split with a ranger to help him cap the stand against another flag runner who brings a dom mesmer. Both runners die, leaving you alone with the mesmer. An entirely unrealistic setting, but then the context of this thread it's self is entirely unrealistic.

Avarre · Mar 08, 2006, 09:45 AM // 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

And I am telling you that the boon prot that I run, which I would consider a fairly common build, would not get dropped by a single mesmer

Hardly a boon monk, since you mentioned you would not be using divine boon (or veil) at all. You've also mentioned using holy veil? Without boon, your heals are completely restricted to SoD and your minor divine favor bonus.

Quote:

You think I would be stupid enough to use enchants vs. a Dom mesmer?

So actually, yes. Yes I do.

Quote:

Wrong. I told you what I usually use, and how I would counter it with that.

You've told me you'd counter diversion with a skill you weren't stupid enough to use. Go figure.

Quote:

Is it that hard to time a focus swap to the recharge of burn and surge?

You assume a mesmer would stick to a solid cast-on-recharge pattern? Well fine. Is it that hard to time a burn to the switching of foci?

Quote:

An entirely unrealistic setting,

Quite, as generally monks just run away...

Lady Callingwell · Mar 08, 2006, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

An entirely unrealistic setting, but then the context of this thread it's self is entirely unrealistic.

That's what I allready told before, if we put it the other way around, get a Mesmer who needs to give his entire build away in advance, I can guarantee you that with each primary and a well suited secondary the mesmer can be killed. That's the whole point of GW, nothing is imune to counters and you'll have to work on a team build in order to provide good results. No single class is going to do that for you.

JR · Mar 08, 2006, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Hardly a boon monk, since you mentioned you would not be using divine boon (or veil) at all.

I may not use them, but they would be on my Bar. And Veil would be fine to use, as long as it was dropped immediately.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

completely restricted to SoD and your minor divine favor bonus.

Considering your main damage will come from burn, which will be burning next to no energy, that's no big deal. SoD can heal for 106 every 5 seconds, I'm not too worried.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

You've told me you'd counter diversion with a skill you weren't stupid enough to use. Go figure.

I said you can drop a pre-cast veil to remove diversion. Or just not cast.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

You assume a mesmer would stick to a solid cast-on-recharge pattern?

I'm sorry, do you somehow have the ability to cast before the skill has recharged?

Cirian · Mar 08, 2006, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

I'm sorry, do you somehow have the ability to cast before the skill has recharged?

(just thought I 'd pick this one up)

I think she's saying instead of casting the surge/burn the instant the skill has recharged, she'll watch for you swap focus to gain energy and either surge or burn you before you switch back. Focus swapping can be used against you for surge/burns (80 damage, assuming 10 energy lost) and mind wracks (~90 damage).

I suppose the most efficient way to stop a Signet of Devotion would be /R for distracting shot. 5 energy, 10s re-use, 1 damage, and most importantly: disables the signet for 20s. No need to spend any points on /R attributes, but switching between a wand and bow becomes necessary...

edit: just a note on waiting for Diversion to expire - Diversion's partner-in-crime is Wastrel's Worry, which is 68 damage (@16Dom) if you don't use a skill for 3s. Obviously Diversion is there to either stop you from using a skill (triggering damage from WW) or catch you out (disabling a skill). WW is 5 energy on a 1s recast, so the mesmer can do things like cast WW, follow up with Diversion, then recast WW after the first expires.

Assuming WW is recognised and the target reaches for a skill to cancel it, it might get caught by Diversion as it lands and become disabled for ~1 minute. If Diversion lands and a skill isn't used because of it... WW triggers for 68 damage, gets refreshed, and will expire before Diversion will for another 68 damage.

Total: 136 damage with additional damage from wanding. Around the time Diversion is ending, it's time for a mind wrack/e-burn combo for another spike. e-surge can be held in reserve for if the target focus swaps at some point, and that's an ideal time to drop another fast refreshing mind wrack too.

Assuming the mesmer has the energy for all this.

JR · Mar 08, 2006, 08:16 PM // 20:16

I'm pretty much done with this thread, but I will reiterate what I said before:

I personally have been in GvG matches, and had a Surge/Burn/SoW mesmer completely unobstructed sit on my face for the majority of the time. In said time, I have not only been able to keep myself alive, but also other people. Thanks to the power of focus swapping. As in; they had two mesmers, we had two monks. They parked a mesmer on each of our monks for the entire game.

Maybe the Rn and SB mesmers just totally sucked, and somehow even failed at karate chopping their keyboard, but I doubt it. Even looking at the numbers they are in my favour.

Adios.

Lady Callingwell · Mar 08, 2006, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Surging is plain simply overvalued imho, I've never had any serious problems versus dual surgers unless they're accompanied by 4 warriors going for pure dps. Even than a simple diversion spam or a few interupts on guardian hurt me more than any e-denial.

Eaimirth Etaivella · Mar 12, 2006, 06:23 AM // 06:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

I'm pretty much done with this thread, but I will reiterate what I said before:

I personally have been in GvG matches, and had a Surge/Burn/SoW mesmer completely unobstructed sit on my face for the majority of the time. In said time, I have not only been able to keep myself alive, but also other people. Thanks to the power of focus swapping. As in; they had two mesmers, we had two monks. They parked a mesmer on each of our monks for the entire game.

Maybe the Rn and SB mesmers just totally sucked, and somehow even failed at karate chopping their keyboard, but I doubt it. Even looking at the numbers they are in my favour.

Adios.

Then we need some buffage to the mesmer skills...

qwe4rty · Mar 13, 2006, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by sno

Indeed, a very good boon prot could SURVIVE a mesmer for quite a long time... but what does a boon prot have for damage, a wand?... The argument was 1v1, and in 1v1 a boon prot has absolutely no offense. All the mesmer would have to do is constantly throw nastiness at him and eventually the monk would run out of energy even with his focus swapping, it would just take awhile.

Actually, just to point out a couple things, not that they mean much.

Before the nerf, in the TA Ice lvl, my boon prot killed an air ele 1v1. Then agin, he wasnt smart, but still , the Boon Prot can do more dmg wanding then most mesmers can heal. (How many Mesmers will bring ether fiest?)

2nd, I used Balths Spirt in 4v4 Arenas for more energy, and would never run out 1v1, 2v1. So, I think a good boon prot could last indefinatly vs a mesmer.

Hafnt played one since the nerf, (in fact, hafnt been on Guild Wars much, college visits/applications etc)

Francis Crawford · Mar 13, 2006, 07:47 AM // 07:47

I much doubt that the mesmer has a guaranteed win knowing just the profession(s) of the opponent.

For example, you're facing an Ele/Ra. I defy you to come up with a build that will defeat all of:

1. A weak (since it's the secondary profession) but classic interrupt ranger
2. A weak but classic beastmaster ranger
3. A classic air elementalist
4. A funky Permanent Obsidian Flesh build that incorporates enough speed management to defeat kiting

As to whether a mesmer can beat anybody who has to publish his skill bar in advance -- probably. But the same is probably true of five* other professions.

*Soon to be seven

Corth · Mar 13, 2006, 08:09 PM // 20:09

ok, why are we forgetting about spell breaker here?

"Oh man, I'm going 1v1 against a casting class, meh, better elites than spell breaker..."

Yes, a monk can own a mesmer, yes a mesmer can own a monk. It'll just depend on the skills that are brought, and your actual skill. (and not how much you grind/been on raids, GW FTW!)

SnipiousMax · Mar 13, 2006, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corth

ok, why are we forgetting about spell breaker here?

"Oh man, I'm going 1v1 against a casting class, meh, better elites than spell breaker..."

Yes, a monk can own a mesmer, yes a mesmer can own a monk. It'll just depend on the skills that are brought, and your actual skill. (and not how much you grind/been on raids, GW FTW!)

Spell breaker will be interrupted before you get it off. If you do get it off, it lasts only so long, and has a long recharge time. Not the best thing to fend of a mesmer.