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Old Mar 06, 2006, 02:12 AM // 02:12   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai Nui
I think the only creature worthy enough to be killed by a mesmer is a musaat monk. Everything else is worthless.
Monks one of the only true challenges for most anti-spellcaster builds.
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Old Mar 06, 2006, 02:20 AM // 02:20   #42
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Oh well mesmer OWN!
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Old Mar 06, 2006, 02:25 AM // 02:25   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayh3m
Oh well mesmer OWN!
You wish to own a mesmer. One fresh mesmer no extra on the side. That'll be 40gold sir. Will you be paying in cash or cheque. lol
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Old Mar 06, 2006, 05:56 AM // 05:56   #44
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The problem is that PvE is all about speed. My conjure phantasm, empathy, or diversion hexes are all highly efficient damage-dealing or shutdown spells.
But an echo meteor shower elementalist kills things 4 times faster than I do. When a group wants to head to the forgemaster in FoW for example, they want to go fast. Besides a few cases in which the AI monks manage to get outside of the meteor shower aoe, my spells and hexes would put out a wopping 60 damage before the target was dead. Fat lot of good that did, and it made me wonder what, exactly, is the point? If I, as the mesmer, was thinking that, what could the three echo nukers have been thinking?

Well, we can make a guess. They see that I am not putting out much damage, and shutdown was not even close to needed since the monks all dropped in under 15 seconds. So, they see a mesmer that was not doing as much damage as, say, another nuker would have done, and so start leaving mesmers by the roadside and taking more nukers instead.

Not to say mesmers are weak. Empathy alone can do massive damage given time to work its magic, and in some cases you will have that time (boss fights for instance) Wastrel's worry is also a fun little skill, letting a mesmer do something like a good 60 dps against bosses. Diversion can also swing the tide of battle, stopping those nasty monk bosses from using their infinite energy pools to heal. But all these things are boss-related. What good is empathy if the target will be knocked down every three seconds and dead in 6? What about WW? Diversion? And so on. A good mesmer can completely and utterly destroy a boss, and general mobs to, you just take longer. As the saying goes, "time is money" and other players don't care if your skills are great, they only see that it takes you a longer time to kill.

PvP is a different story entirely. Mesmers tend to be the highest or second-highest priority targets then, and that is because they are so dangerous. On the one hand that is great since it means you are a huge threat. On the other hand it is bad since you have horrible armor and not exactly the best defensive skills
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Old Mar 06, 2006, 08:03 AM // 08:03   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banebow
The problem is that PvE is all about speed. My conjure phantasm, empathy, or diversion hexes are all highly efficient damage-dealing or shutdown spells.
But an echo meteor shower elementalist kills things 4 times faster than I do. When a group wants to head to the forgemaster in FoW for example, they want to go fast. Besides a few cases in which the AI monks manage to get outside of the meteor shower aoe, my spells and hexes would put out a wopping 60 damage before the target was dead. Fat lot of good that did, and it made me wonder what, exactly, is the point? If I, as the mesmer, was thinking that, what could the three echo nukers have been thinking?

Well, we can make a guess. They see that I am not putting out much damage, and shutdown was not even close to needed since the monks all dropped in under 15 seconds. So, they see a mesmer that was not doing as much damage as, say, another nuker would have done, and so start leaving mesmers by the roadside and taking more nukers instead.

Not to say mesmers are weak. Empathy alone can do massive damage given time to work its magic, and in some cases you will have that time (boss fights for instance) Wastrel's worry is also a fun little skill, letting a mesmer do something like a good 60 dps against bosses. Diversion can also swing the tide of battle, stopping those nasty monk bosses from using their infinite energy pools to heal. But all these things are boss-related. What good is empathy if the target will be knocked down every three seconds and dead in 6? What about WW? Diversion? And so on. A good mesmer can completely and utterly destroy a boss, and general mobs to, you just take longer. As the saying goes, "time is money" and other players don't care if your skills are great, they only see that it takes you a longer time to kill.

PvP is a different story entirely. Mesmers tend to be the highest or second-highest priority targets then, and that is because they are so dangerous. On the one hand that is great since it means you are a huge threat. On the other hand it is bad since you have horrible armor and not exactly the best defensive skills
Mesmers ability to shutdown and interrupt opponents is unmatched by other classes. That's a fact everyone knows. It is rather annoying how mesmers can sometimes turn the tide of a battle and yet a party going on a spellcaster intensive mission don't realise that. Reminds me of I forget the name of the mission. The one before hell's precipice. I was with a group of warriors and monks. Now the warriors as we got to the mursaat strong hold made the party all made the mistake of telling me what to attack and shut down. So I sat back and watched the mursaat kill them off one at a time. Ironic how it was the mursaat mesmers that are what did them in. But my point being, I being the mesmer knew what to shut down, etc. And had they not tried to tell me what to do. I can almost be certain that the mursaat would have been much easier to try and kill. Never piss of a mesmer. (Or monk) We know what to do and when to do it.

Side note: I get the feeling I rambled on losing the point I tried to make. lol
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Old Mar 06, 2006, 04:06 PM // 16:06   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaKai
Mesmers ability to shutdown and interrupt opponents is unmatched by other classes.
Oh I agree. No warrior, elementalist, necromancer, monk, or even ranger can match a mesmer when it comes to shutdown. The problem is that you need so little of it that no one cares. Besides a few bosses, such as the mursaat monk, everything can be killed faster with another nuker. Even in ToPK were mesmers have no weaknesses and there are lots of enemies who could use some shutdown on them, mesmers have a hard time finding groups because everyone would rather do the barrage pet combo instead of trying to make a balanced group.
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Old Mar 06, 2006, 08:37 PM // 20:37   #47
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Mesmers should rebel against the trinty. Too bad no one would listen.
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Old Mar 07, 2006, 10:01 AM // 10:01   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Ownager
Mesmers should rebel against the trinty. Too bad no one would listen.
Shame we can't use Echo to shout it out. lol
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Old Mar 07, 2006, 10:15 AM // 10:15   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Ownager
Mesmers should rebel against the trinty. Too bad no one would listen.
No one is listening because they're too busy saying "#$%#!"
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Old Mar 07, 2006, 10:16 AM // 10:16   #50
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PvE mesmers arent to great as most monsters dant have good monks that need shuting down

PvP Mesmers Own.
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Old Mar 07, 2006, 10:21 AM // 10:21   #51
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Warriors - Tanking / Spiking / Running
Rangers - Interupting / Trapping / Spirit Spamming
Monks - Healing / Protecting
Necromancer - SS'ing / MM'ing
Elementalis - Nuking
Mesmers - ...

What do Mesmers do? Noone knows. I'm not saying Mesmers suck (I've got one myself And I love him), I'm saying noone knows what to do with Mesmers, what skills to let them bring etc.

You hear "Nice Tanking", "Nice Healing". "Nice Trapping", "Cool, lots of Minions", "Nice timed nuking" every once in a while. But nothing related to Mesmers, since they can't give compliments when they don't know what in the world Mesmers do ..
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Old Mar 07, 2006, 11:06 AM // 11:06   #52
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the thing is, mesmers dont just do one thing. you can say nice interrupting to a mesmer. I dont think any classe can be as versatile as mesmer. mesmer can be:
- heavy dmg dealers (IW)
- warrior hate (sig of midnight, empathy, clumsiness)
- caster hate (power spike, leak, drain)
there are so many things to choose from. whereas a warrior will always be in melee, or eles will most of the time be nuking ( im talking in general terms here).
People just dont understand what mesmers do, because most of them dont know what they are capable of doing. if they did, they would know how important mesmers are. And Im not talking about the mesmer spamming conjure fantasm all the time and doing nothing else but that.

also, mesmer players should not think that anyone who doesnt play a mesmer
doesnt know what he does. I dont play mesmers much, nevertheless, I know what they do.

to answer to the OP. I think mesmers are undervalued by people who do not know the mesmer class, or people who have never tried using it. I dont say everyone who never played the mesmer undervalue them, but all who do, cant possibly have tried it.

Last edited by kais; Mar 07, 2006 at 11:13 AM // 11:13..
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Old Mar 07, 2006, 11:20 AM // 11:20   #53
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Being a monk I certainly do not undervalue Mesmers, I may hate and despise them, but I do not undervalue them.
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Old Mar 07, 2006, 11:22 AM // 11:22   #54
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IW is not really "high damage", compared to the damage the baddies are doing to you. IMO.
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Old Mar 07, 2006, 11:28 AM // 11:28   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxiemonster
Warriors - Tanking / Spiking / Running
Rangers - Interupting / Trapping / Spirit Spamming
Monks - Healing / Protecting
Necromancer - SS'ing / MM'ing
Elementalis - Nuking
Mesmers - ...

What do Mesmers do? Noone knows.
We PWN!

I've played tanking mesmers, interrupt mesmers, SS mesmers, healing/protting mesmers... the general opinion is we can do anything. When the team dies, I often have to solo my way back to the corpses against various mobs, and the mesmer is the best suited to do that, especially as most of its skills are fire-and-forget, meaning you can hex and kite till it dies
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Old Mar 07, 2006, 12:46 PM // 12:46   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LightningHell
IW is not really "high damage", compared to the damage the baddies are doing to you. IMO.
well, i think doing around 40 armor ignoring dmg per hit is good. add the fact that you cant stop taking the dmg unless the mesmer is dead( or the enchantment stripped, but you should normally have a cover enchant), and I think it does good dmg. of course, its not a spike dmg like the warrior's eviscerate, but its still non-negligeable dmg. as for the damage taken, using distortion can save you some trouble.
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Old Mar 07, 2006, 12:56 PM // 12:56   #57
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I do not have a mesmer, but play one sometimes during PvP, people just have to understand the role of them. Like many said, the visual aid for all the mesmers work in PvE is weak. Warriors swing their Fiery Dragon Sword while elementalists have big flashy spells. No one knows what the mesmers are up to..but still domination magic e-denial owns
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Old Mar 07, 2006, 01:51 PM // 13:51   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kais
well, i think doing around 40 armor ignoring dmg per hit is good. add the fact that you cant stop taking the dmg unless the mesmer is dead( or the enchantment stripped, but you should normally have a cover enchant), and I think it does good dmg. of course, its not a spike dmg like the warrior's eviscerate, but its still non-negligeable dmg. as for the damage taken, using distortion can save you some trouble.
Good. Well, I'd say let the tank do their work first. Then get in and start killing.

Well, using Me/W would be nice. Or W/Me. Then I would shut up

PvE, right?
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Old Mar 07, 2006, 02:11 PM // 14:11   #59
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Well IW in PvE is handy when I want to solo some minor boss (solo-capped Dwarven Battle Stance earlier today), and of course for my farming setup... but in PvP the damage isn't really that high, reversal of fortune slaughters it. The only good thing is its constant damage output, but any warrior or ranger or ele can do so much more.
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Old Mar 07, 2006, 03:44 PM // 15:44   #60
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Off Topic: Avarre I have a capture signet. I already have the elite skills Crippling Anguish, IW and Energy Surge. What elite should I capture?
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