Curse

Eaimirth Etaivella · Mar 01, 2006, 11:42 PM // 23:42

We Wear the Mask

WE wear the mask that grins and lies,
It hides our cheeks and shades our eyes,—
This debt we pay to human guile;
With torn and bleeding hearts we smile,
And mouth with myriad subtleties.

Why should the world be over-wise,
In counting all our tears and sighs?
Nay, let them only see us, while
We wear the mask.

We smile, but, O great Christ, our cries
To thee from tortured souls arise.
We sing, but oh the clay is vile
Beneath our feet, and long the mile;
But let the world dream otherwise,
We wear the mask!

Paul Laurence Dunbar (1872-1906)

No further comment.

NinjaKai · Mar 01, 2006, 11:59 PM // 23:59

Eaimirth Etaivella: Uh. *Nods head in agreement as if pretending to understand*

Dragannia · Mar 02, 2006, 12:33 AM // 00:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

I think it all comes down to a post-passive-aggresion-displacement issue. Lets say a warrior decides he wants to have some fun playing around in RA, so said warrior equips his masterful build (mending included of course), enters the arena, and procceds to mock and taunt the other (obviously weaker) classes in the arena. Seconds later, after having mending shattered, and attacking through empathy while blinded, the said warrior starts yelling at his own monk, and of course the well prepared mesmer. Perhaps realizing that his efforts in PvP will never be appreciated like they are in PvE, he returns to where he is respected and feared. He begins to put together a masterful group to beat the next mission, calling of course for warriors! and monks, and maybe an ele (w/ firestorm). After screaming endlessly for hours looking for some plasable combination of the three, a mesmer speaks up, looking to join in the group. All of the pent of aggresion which was unable to be released in PvP (due to a stupid mesmer) bubbles back up into our warrior's psyche, and he maliciously calls for more eles, to show that stupid mesmer who's the king of PvE!

That and people are stupid.

Masterfully put.

Avarre · Mar 02, 2006, 09:38 AM // 09:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by NinjaKai

lyroth.grimstone: 30k for someone to take pity on you. I'd tell them to shove their [Insert discusting derogatory statement here].

Well, most likely they were spider runners that charge 30k, which isn't an unheard-of price.

However, if a Me/R follows to get spider, a Me/Mo can solo the required quests to get it

Mesmer pride ftw!

Quote:

Originally Posted by romeo_longsword

Also, I dont think the Me calss is "out of the box" and that different, as I feel the Me is like the Bard in DnD, which is one of the more traditional classes.

I always used to play my wizards in DnD with huge amounts of hold person / dominate / maze, etc spells. Indirect devastation ftw

Vaga · Mar 02, 2006, 09:52 AM // 09:52

Mesmers are no better or worse than any other class in PvE but they are somewhat harder to play in that they have to pick the right targets to lay their hexs on. However if they are picking the wrong targets then they are not contributing to the group much in which case another class would be better.

A lot of mesmer skills do not enhance how fast your group progresses through parts of the game, and the fact is PvE is just about getting through the areas as quickly and with the least amount of people possible. For example casting diversion on a monster means that IF they cast through it they cannot use that spell for a decent amount of time. Most monsters don't live that long anyway.

In my opinion as much as I like mesmers, there is almost always a better alternative primary class to them, especially as in the domination line a lot of things cap at 12 anyway.

romeo_longsword · Mar 02, 2006, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

I always used to play my wizards in DnD with huge amounts of hold person / dominate / maze, etc spells. Indirect devastation ftw

You are a bully.

Kriel Drache · Mar 02, 2006, 03:41 PM // 15:41

I've actually had a few experiences in the Deldrimor War Camp where people have openly mocked my Mesmer when I look for a group. Mesmers can be played to fit almost any role, but a lot of those roles are subtle yet can change the tide of battle. Of course, you could go melee Mesmer as I have been known to do and cut down anything that stands in your way, but where's the insidious fun in that? Oh, and on a side note, I'm in Germany right now without a computer to play Guild Wars on. I'm on a school computer in Marburg right now so I can't exactly load the client and silently kick butt and the Internet in the dorms is down. I'm going to be so rusty when I get back. Oh, and if you're ever in Marburg, try the Döner. It's delicious.

sun is in us · Mar 02, 2006, 06:49 PM // 18:49

One thing about Mesmers is that to contribute to a PUG, you have to have some control over the pace, similar to a Monk....and this is many times impossible.

We all know that we have Henchied through Ring of Fire Missions. We know that when start an encounter with 6 Hydras that we have our AEcho up and are ready to interupt any spell they go after.....making the Mes Char the safest in that area.

But how many PUGs will listen to "Hold for one moment for Aecho to recharge?"

So many times we can keep an entire group safe if we are allowed to draw/start initial aggro.

It takes a rare group to understand how the Mesmer works most efficiently.....and that gets tiresome.

Quote:

A lot of mesmer skills do not enhance how fast your group progresses through parts of the game, and the fact is PvE is just about getting through the areas as quickly and with the least amount of people possible.

And of course as most experienced Mesmers will tell you....this is what the Mesmer excells at. So I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on the meat of your post there.

Kasissia · Mar 02, 2006, 06:50 PM // 18:50

One reason that i think mesmers are undervalued (speaking as a player from another class) is that its really hard to see what the mesmers are doing. You can't really see if the boss's energy is out or if he keeps getting interrupted (unless you stare at the skills he's casting). For the other classes, you can see that they heal (monk), they tank (warriors), they are MMs or SSs (necro), they trap/nuke (rangers, eles). For mesmers, its just really hard to see any ''visable'' effects.

DoctorEvil · Mar 02, 2006, 08:06 PM // 20:06

That reminds me off a funny story of when I first ran my Mesmer through a SF run with a friend who was on Teamspeak.

Friend: Oh my God, why were you firing your wand. Why weren't you casting spells on that Boss?
Me: Ummm....I was casting spells on him. I had Conjure Phantasm, Empathy & Backfire on him the whole time and interrupted his healing twice.
Friend: .....but I only saw you do you're Mesmer twirling spell casting dance one, all the other times it looked like you were firing your wand..
Me: Dude....I have a 10 in Fast Casting. They got off so fast I don't have time to do a Mesmer twirling spell casting dance!

After that he started paying closer attention to what I was doing on these runs, and watched as Monks and Elementalists would Backfire themselves to death while under Conjure Phantasm. When we're in the Tombs it's frequent left to me to neutralize trios of Terrorweb Dryders with Power Block, Backfire and interrupts. Yet, I still can't find PUGs to do anything with

That's OK, though, I still find my Mesmer more fun to play than any other of my characters.

My understand is that there was once a time when no one wanted Necromancers in PUGs either, yet now they're highly in demand. As expansions come on I suspect the role the Mesmer plays in groups will change and become more imporatant.

Storm Crow · Mar 02, 2006, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by WoofWoof

In RA, the Mesmer is going to be attacked first unless there's a Monk on your team. This tells me that the Mesmer is very valuable

.

I think that this just adds to the list of Reasons to Kill A Mesmer First. #342: They are a pain in the ass that shuts down your spellcasters. Own their sparkaly pinkness. But this all goes to PvP.

I think that Mesmers are a very good support class in helping take monsters down easier, and interrupting their spells and whatnot. It all depends on how they're used how valuable they are.

LouAl · Mar 02, 2006, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Many people have already said what I think is the biggest reason mesmers are undervalued, lack of visible damage. Although, when I put backfire on an earth titan they drop like flies. For some reason no one notices that the E. titan that was not everyone else's target just died in 10 seconds flat. *shrugs*

When I did the LDD quest I had the HARDEST time finding a group and got kicked MANY times for a war or nuker. In the end I had to play a fast cast healer to get it done (and it was easy).

It seems like, when the party size is large (8, sometimes 6) mesmers are in demand if all the other "required" roles are filled, but in a small party people don't realize that you only need one tank/nuker/monk if the mesmer is good.

Again, it comes down to visible damage. A necro or ranger can degen everyone on the map, a warrior is easy to see standing there swinging his/her weapon, everyone notices the big chunks of rock falling from the sky, but when a spell doesn't go off no one realizes who did it. (Oh yeah, and monks are easy to spot healing too, your health goes up...that means the monk healed you :P )

The only mesmer skill that is visible to everyone is Cry of Frustration (@#$%), and most people don't realize who made all the montsers pissed all at once.

Xyonmonkey · Mar 02, 2006, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Yea, I've had problems convincing people I was doing something. Its hard to see what a mesmer is doing, especially with fast casting.

LouAl · Mar 03, 2006, 12:57 AM // 00:57

After reading this and the "what do you expect from a warrior" I decided to see what everyone else thinks about what mesmers do.

If you want to see what people think (of course it only just started) check here:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=130222

Kai Nui · Mar 04, 2006, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Son of Urza

The females aren't too bad, if a bit hookerish

Is 'hookerish' a word?!?

Anyway, I do have to say that mesmers have horrible armor, and are great if you don't have a sucky monk. If you don't have a monk at all, you'd better just plan on not having anti-caster but anti-death. Er, I mean anti-warrior. You'll just end up running away the entire time until you die from degen or something and you question your exsistience, even though you have all these great skills at your disposal, they're completely useless unless you have wire supporting your bra. Er, I mean a monk supporting your life. Anyway, I think the point I'm trying to say is, if you chose mesmer like me, you're screwed, and the only way you can get into anything is if you get lucky and meet someone skilled who is in a top 1,000 rank guild and you can join them. Everything below that is warriors who think they're "someone" and are going to be famous for their 1337 skillz, when in reality, the build they're using is one they took from a friend, who took that build from a site, and that site is named, "The Most Generic Mesmer Killing Builds For Warriors Ever," while we are sitting all alone crying to our mamas because "Kay Dee Slash Aye Ess" ("KD/AS" for you slow people who shouldn't be playing mesmer out there) owned your silly little green ass in RA.

Anyway, as you can see, I've got like over 4k deaths on my character and in relation to my age on that game, that means I've died 1 time every 15 minutes. Why do I keep playing? Because it used to be 1 time every 5.

NinjaKai · Mar 04, 2006, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouAl

After reading this and the "what do you expect from a warrior" I decided to see what everyone else thinks about what mesmers do.

If you want to see what people think (of course it only just started) check here:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=130222

I actually posted in that thread. Most peoples expectations of mesmers where a bit too high. I mean seriously for a group of people that aren't picked often for farming, missions, etc. People certainly expect a lot. I think they are just jealous because we have the nice collectors armor.

Avarre · Mar 05, 2006, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by NinjaKai

I actually posted in that thread. Most peoples expectations of mesmers where a bit too high. I mean seriously for a group of people that aren't picked often for farming, missions, etc. People certainly expect a lot. I think they are just jealous because we have the nice collectors armor.

I expect lots, and I'm not jealous of your collector armor! Seriously though, mesmers should expect more because they know what they can do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by romeo_longsword

You are a bully.

No, bully is when I use spelltrap/absolute immunity/imprisonment and go around imprisoning every mob in the room, invincible.

BlackRecluse · Mar 05, 2006, 04:16 AM // 04:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Storm Crow

I think that this just adds to the list of Reasons to Kill A Mesmer First. #342: They are a pain in the ass that shuts down your spellcasters. Own their sparkaly pinkness. But this all goes to PvP.

I think that Mesmers are a very good support class in helping take monsters down easier, and interrupting their spells and whatnot. It all depends on how they're used how valuable they are.

Cry of Frustration is the greatest spell. Ever.

anyway to touch on the topic, i think mesmers used to be much more underrated than they are now. i myself have one, and whenever i feel like joining a pug for the fow/uw, i have a very easytime joining. i think most players realise how uncommon they are, and how valuable they are. but its also much harder earlier in the game to join groups, with many new players demanding only warriors/monks. especially in 4-man groups ;/

NinjaKai · Mar 05, 2006, 11:41 PM // 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

I expect lots, and I'm not jealous of your collector armor! Seriously though, mesmers should expect more because they know what they can do.

The part of collectors armor was my obviously failed attempt at humor. And relating to expectations. People who know what being a mesmer involves. I'm fine if they have high expectations. But people who don't know and expect a lot that's just foolish. But you do so I have nothing wrong with your expectations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

No, bully is when I use spelltrap/absolute immunity/imprisonment and go around imprisoning every mob in the room, invincible.

I always thought bullies were those stupid big things with no brains. Or am I thinking about the Tony Blair.

Kai Nui · Mar 06, 2006, 01:27 AM // 01:27

I think the only creature worthy enough to be killed by a mesmer is a musaat monk. Everything else is worthless.