Curse

Themis · May 18, 2006, 09:48 PM // 21:48

RI is far from being the best skill in illusion line, but it's mainly a cheap degen : if you manage to renew it twice, you get a -3 degen for 30 seconds (that is 180 damage) for 10 energy.
As a comparison, Conjure Phantasm does 130 damage for 10 energy spent at 14 illusion. So, the point is : will you be able to renew RI at least twice without having it removed ? If you do, then it deserves its Elite status.

Best trigger is a fast recharge skill : that's why i use it with Images of Remorse (-4 degen for 10 seconds +49 damage if target attacks = 80+49= 80 to 129 damage for 5 energy at 14 illusion) because IoR recharges within 5 secs. Moreover, i don't care if IoR is removed after 2-3 seconds, it has already dealt 70-75 damage after 3 seconds...

Mystic Memory · May 18, 2006, 09:51 PM // 21:51

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Just tested it with a friend. It goes under. So like every time you hex, RI is reapplied, triggers Barbs, but remains under the hex that renewed it. So, that explains why when Monks were Inspa hexing my stuff, RI remained intact. Interesting. Well, like I said, it's a fun thing to do.

I heard this too, but im pretty sure i also heard that it looks like the second hex, but is actually the first to be removed (heard from another forum). If you could test that out it would be cool

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Tell me, what do I need to do- bang the bells of one of House zu Heltzer's glorious cathedrals to get the point across??? It's a freaking 2 sec recharge interrupt that by simply BEING 2 sec recharge makes it far superior to DS and clearly justifies it being a) an elite and b) shutting down the rest of you skill bar. Tell me, what OTHER interrupt has anywhere NEAR 2 sec recharge??? Seriously, am I being unclear or speaking a foreign language (which I sometimes do)?

Well, sure its an interrupt with 2 seconds recharge. But if you look at it the other way, you basically "interrupted" all of your other skills. Not too great in my book. You shut down the enemy less than you shut down yourself.

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lol. Whoever said that PD and the other new elites aren't bad but they aren't to peoples taste is totally right. They can't make new elites that are perfect for everyone and that everyone will love and spam.

Of course they dont need to make those. But I think that some of the elite skills are rubbish.

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i completely disagree with you, all those skills are as essential as others.
all these skills can be used in PvP mostly and they are good against anti-casters. also Shared Burden is good skill in any relic map or GvG.

I cannot see how shared burden would be taken over a water hex. And arcane languor is hardly anti caster, more like anti your own energy to shutdown for 4 whopping seconds.

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Arcane Languor is best skill ever in PvE too, Foe's use skills most of the time the more exhaution they have the less energy they gonna have, and faster we can kill them.

I dont know about you, but PvE monsters seem to have almost unlimited energy (I know they dont, but just consider the sheer number of monsters. I doubt exhausting one monster is worth an elite).

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Conjure Phantasm ? Are you kidding ? Go try and kill a warrior (who has his healing signet and uses it - no interrupts, hein ?) just by using CP !!!

Ineptitude, probably along with ConjureP, but the total cost is of no means comparable. What's the use of saying that you can slay a W using 70-80 energy, when you can do it (as in my example) using only half of that ? What is better ?

Illusion of pain ???? you've surely never used this skill... Well, it's not a really a problem, but, at least, you should read skill's description... You'll easily understand it's a "finish" skill. You can do no harm at start- or mid-battle with it.

(btw: don't think that it ACTUALLY took me 90 seconds ! It takes no more than 30-40, but i like being tolerant with figures )

I assume you are talking about RA, as i cannot see your build killing anything in GvG/HA. In RA, 30-40 seconds to kill a warrior is ALOT. Ive seen warriors drop within seconds.

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RI is far from being the best skill in illusion line, but it's mainly a cheap degen : if you manage to renew it twice, you get a -3 degen for 30 seconds (that is 180 damage) for 10 energy.
As a comparison, Conjure Phantasm does 130 damage for 10 energy spent at 14 illusion. So, the point is : will you be able to renew RI at least twice without having it removed ? If you do, then it deserves its Elite status.

By your logic, Life Siphon should also be an elite, no?

Themis · May 18, 2006, 10:44 PM // 22:44

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Originally Posted by Mystic Memory

I assume you are talking about RA, as i cannot see your build killing anything in GvG/HA. In RA, 30-40 seconds to kill a warrior is ALOT. Ive seen warriors drop within seconds.

C'mon... it was not a build, merely an experiment with 2 offensive spells, read my post, please. No point in comparing 2 skills with a full bar... It's not even funny !

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Originally Posted by Mystic Memory

By your logic, Life Siphon should also be an elite, no?

No comments

Theos · May 18, 2006, 11:45 PM // 23:45

The true problem: People look at PD as if you were planning on soloing with it, ok its not worth balls then. Now put it into a team build, where allies know you are going to be using it.

For FS you don't need a skill bar if this is there, you will shut down two targets indefinately if you use it correctly and your team supports you. BiP will keep this skill going indefinately, as an example.

You compare the, what three, weakness of PD to the eight+ weaknesses of DS. The only thing that stops PD is Spellbreaker and Guilt... thats about it. Dazed will do nothing to a 1/4 second cast time... oh no 2/4 second cast time!

twicky_kid · May 19, 2006, 05:00 AM // 05:00

PD can only be used by mes that can interrupt spells without the help of migrane and conundrum which most people cannot do. For those who can this skill is like a wet dream.

Forget the 8 second blackout on your other skills. The main thing to look at is 2 second recharge and can interrupt ANY SKILL. War about to spike you interrupted. Rit laying spirits interrupted. Emo spamming heal party interrupted. Mes using diversion interrupted. War using healing sig interrupted. Assassin about to spike you entire chain interrupted.

As I've said before when you have PD on your bar you really don't need anything else so who cares about the 8 second blackout. I've been using this in a build with arcane theivery and larceny. I steal 2 spells from the monks then move to the mes for the shutdown. Watch for the wars to adren spike and stop them in their tracks. If we run into blood spike, fast cast air spike, or any other casting spike build I can single handedly shut down their entire offense.

I have had this skill on my bar since the first FPE and it hasn't moved off since. Good mesmers will use it well everyone else will continue to do the same old same old.

Eaimirth Etaivella · May 19, 2006, 05:03 AM // 05:03

What about the "really" good mesmers who can disable two characters with nothing but powerblock+arcane echo? Then move on to disable a third with other interrupts of their choice (power spike, power leak).

Sure locking down 1, maybe 2 guys with teammate support is nice (as you can interrupt warriors/sins) but I still perfer my power block.

Hella Good · May 19, 2006, 08:47 AM // 08:47

And "really good mesmers" and "power block" are two things that don't have any cross links in my mindframe.

Mystic Memory · May 19, 2006, 10:37 AM // 10:37

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Originally Posted by twicky_kid

PD can only be used by mes that can interrupt spells without the help of migrane and conundrum which most people cannot do. For those who can this skill is like a wet dream.

Forget the 8 second blackout on your other skills. The main thing to look at is 2 second recharge and can interrupt ANY SKILL. War about to spike you interrupted. Rit laying spirits interrupted. Emo spamming heal party interrupted. Mes using diversion interrupted. War using healing sig interrupted. Assassin about to spike you entire chain interrupted.

As I've said before when you have PD on your bar you really don't need anything else so who cares about the 8 second blackout. I've been using this in a build with arcane theivery and larceny. I steal 2 spells from the monks then move to the mes for the shutdown. Watch for the wars to adren spike and stop them in their tracks. If we run into blood spike, fast cast air spike, or any other casting spike build I can single handedly shut down their entire offense.

I have had this skill on my bar since the first FPE and it hasn't moved off since. Good mesmers will use it well everyone else will continue to do the same old same old.

I agree with eaimirth, power block would be superior. Sure you interrupt more, but to keep all these spikes interrupted, you would be constantly using 10energy every 2 seconds. Now if you consider a mesmer with 50 energy, your energy will be gone in 10 seconds.

Then... you will have to wait 8 seconds before you can use any of your energy management skills

Xasew · May 19, 2006, 10:59 AM // 10:59

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Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella

What about the "really" good mesmers who can disable two characters with nothing but powerblock+arcane echo? Then move on to disable a third with other interrupts of their choice (power spike, power leak).

Power Block still has a 30 second recharge. Arcane Echo has a pretty long recharge, so after that combo you have to wait for quite a while to be able to interrupt again.
And when you run out of energy you wait for 8 seconds to get it back with some Inspiration skills. And seriously, 8 seconds isn't that much.
It's like twicky kid said, it's constant disruption of the enemy offence/defence.

samifly · May 19, 2006, 11:00 AM // 11:00

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Originally Posted by Mystic Memory

Then... you will have to wait 8 seconds before you can use any of your energy management skills

Simple - cast energy management before. Or have a br necro. its for team builds.

Eaimirth Etaivella · May 19, 2006, 11:34 AM // 11:34

You will need energy management after the combo-but not as much as you would if you PD spam'd. Not to mention PD prevents you from E.management for 8 seconds after you spam =/

(also it prevents a switch to distortion/other stance right after using during emergency situations which is never a good thing)

Terra Xin · May 19, 2006, 03:19 PM // 15:19

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Originally Posted by Mystic Memory

I agree with eaimirth, power block would be superior. Sure you interrupt more, but to keep all these spikes interrupted, you would be constantly using 10energy every 2 seconds. Now if you consider a mesmer with 50 energy, your energy will be gone in 10 seconds.

Then... you will have to wait 8 seconds before you can use any of your energy management skills

First of all. No. Completely wrong. Power Block disables the entire set OF SPELLS by interrupting just one spell, but the target has only wasted energy on one spell. And since he cant cast his/her desired spells....wait....wait....wait ah^^ I got full energy and my spells back. Well.... He's a sitting duck. But eh.

SD is "THE" fastest combination of E-denial and Shutdown, simply because when you interrupt a skill (especially those which cost alot of energy) then that target has wasted that energy. Disable their signet, most likely a healing signet, and the target is screwed. Power block a signet? I dont think so. Cast this on a spirit spammer, and not only has he/she wasted their energy, but their skill bar is gone as well.

Second. No. Wrong Again. It would take over 12 seconds to completely deplete your energy for a mesmer with 50 energy, and that's if your lame enough to cast SD constantly without breaks.

The Teacher was trying to teach you energy management, the second was how effective it is at energy denial. Like all of mesmers Interrupts, spike them and they wasted energy trying to cast a spell. Oh wait, SD interrupts skills....^^.

Aside... Powerblock vs Bloodspike = gg.

Hella Good · May 19, 2006, 06:47 PM // 18:47

SD? You mean PDistraction? Anyways, there is many ways to leech energy with a temporarily shut down skill bar. Including but not limited to (doh) Channelling. Channelling is perfect for at least 2 very popular game formats: Alliance battles and HA. It also works very well in GvG on certain maps (expl: Imperial Isle). What of Spirit of Failure? Stances like Mantras vs different Elements and Warrior stances? Heck there is so many skills that can be used to handle this shutdown/need of nrg issue that I don't see why people are making a fuss about it whatsoever!

As for the PBlock vs Bloodspike argument... You only need 4 Necros to drop a target when you Bloodspike. Bloodspike teams take 6 (sometimes 5) for a reason: to make sure if 1 goes down, they can keep on spiking.

Themis · May 19, 2006, 07:05 PM // 19:05

I don't understand all this fuss about Powerblock.

FACT : I've been asking myself why i don't see any Poweblock Mesmers at HA, TA or GvG... I've rarely come across Panik Mesmers, but (almost) never across PB Mesmers, after a whole year of playing ! Half of the Mesmers i come across are interrupt Mesmers, but... no PB

Possible answers are :

1. Mesmers playing in these arenas are almost all new to this profession. The don't master their skills, anyway.
2. Mesmers don't know how to efffectively use this spell : it's a recent spell.
3. They haven't unlocked this -wonderfull and powerfull- Elite (see choice #1)
4. They don't care, they only pick up a ready-made well-accepted build. But, then, why these builds don't include PB ?
5. Mesmers lack imagination. It's a crappy profession, the perfect shelter for crappy players. Excellence is exceptionnal, and only the -very, very rare-best ones have realised the REAL value of PB. (btw, these very, very rare are certainly not part of the best guilds : never seen PB used in championship).
6. It's one of the most uninteresting spells on the Domination line, and useful only under some (rare) circumstances. There're plenty of better Mesmer Elite spells.

Your guess is ?

Eaimirth Etaivella · May 19, 2006, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Look I like powerblock; some like energy surge; some like martyr; some like other.
I for one like powerblock. However many of the mesmers I met in gvg are using martyr; then again most of those were surge mesmers (as the other one was using surge so this is the root of my label).

I will open this up for discussion however; if you are spamming an interrupt every 2 seconds; how long will it take for another mesmer to anticipate it? (Diversion, {since sooo many people apparantly fall into it...don't understand how but w/e}, guilt, {also seems a ton of people fall into this one according to you guys; although I never met one}, or interrupt your interrupt; sounds difficult to do; but if you are spamming the hell out of it (and according to you guys you will be) it seems probable.)

Themis · May 19, 2006, 10:39 PM // 22:39

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Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella

I will open this up for discussion however; if you are spamming an interrupt every 2 seconds; how long will it take for another mesmer to anticipate it? (Diversion, {since sooo many people apparantly fall into it...don't understand how but w/e}, guilt, {also seems a ton of people fall into this one according to you guys; although I never met one}, or interrupt your interrupt; sounds difficult to do; but if you are spamming the hell out of it (and according to you guys you will be) it seems probable.)

A good point, here. I agree with you : PD (if it becomes popular - and it will probably become - ) is sensitive to Diversion shutdown (not sensitive to interrupt though, because of its fast recharge).
Fortunately, there're 6 more skills left on your bar (waiting for activation... but anyway

)

Hella Good · May 20, 2006, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Again, I think that the discussion has shifter away from the new elites and entered Wonderland. Surely, there are ways to counter PD, much like there are ways to counter any other skill. Heck, if there is a skill that you cannot possibly counter, that will be the end of this game. Much like if Diversion catches PD, your precious elite is gone, if PD catches Diversion and Guilt and the likes, the whole purpose of the Diversion Mes is shot. It seems to me that catching PD is much harder than catching Diversion. Plus no one said that since PD has 2s recharge, you must use it every 2s.

Eaimirth Etaivella · May 20, 2006, 07:00 AM // 07:00

This is where it gets interesting imo; if the PD mes does nothing but watch what I will call the "diversion'er" then his purpose is shot. They are both trapped in a loop that never seems to end; an old west style showdown. Yet application of another one of my favorite (yet overlooked) skills WW and the diversion'er easily wins. You can use nothing but an interrupt; and after usage the diversion can be readily applied. That or you suffer 64 damage.

fatboyslimerr · May 20, 2006, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Thats a good point actually. If a mesmer uses WW on someone spammin' PD, they're screwed unless they continue to use PD but they'll run out of energy eventually. This is at least one weakness of PD but otherwise I think it has lots of potenial applications.

Hella Good · May 20, 2006, 08:51 PM // 20:51

I was just playing PD Mesmer last night in Alliance battles. Used:

1- PD
2- Sig of Disruption
3- Leech Sig
4- Parasitic Bond
5- Spirit of Failure
6- Drain Enchantment
7- Channelling
8- Mantra of Inscriptions

And I had a blast.

Victims included everything that was moving (cept for pets and minions, o'course). Favorite moments: interrupting a spiker ranger, shutting down a touch ranger, owning dozens of warriors heal sigs (boy, do I love doing that or what?), sitting right in front of a warrior interrupting every single attack skill he used against me (while he was feeding me nrg that is), winning a few 1v1 with Mesmers and Necros, humilliating tons of Assassins by messing up their attack chains, o'course messing up Monks big time (but that's the usual stuff, so not a big deal). It got to a point that I pissed off so many people, they decided to gang up on me at which point I used my 2nd elite: Run The Hell Away. Good times. I'm gonna play some more of that tonight- I haven't had so much fun in a long while.