Curse

Eaimirth Etaivella · May 17, 2006, 10:43 PM // 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xasew

Distracting Shot can be compared to PD when:
a)DS can interrupt 1 second casts from max range
b)DS can interrupt trough walls
c)DS can't be blocked/evaded
d)DS has a 2 second recharge

Or PD can be compared with DS when...
a) its not elite
b) fast casting lowers cost
c) its energy cost is halved
d) it no longer disables your entire bar

Evilsod · May 17, 2006, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

I don't see a single valid argument you have produced to convince me how a 10s recharge DS is better than a 2s recharge PD... I think Xasew made it very clear why PD is FAR superior to DS.

Just looking at PD makes me think it sucks... When you can convince me how the 10energy cost spell at 2seconds recharge, disabling every other skill on your bar is good please let me know. If i wanted to disable myself i'd go Blackout/Diversion. Unless you devote your entire skillbar to energy management to cover up the ridiculously high energy cost of spamming this skill, i'd like to hear it. At least with DS it recharges 10 seconds later, and leaves you open to use other interrupts in the meantime.

Something said earlier.... why use Siphon Speed with an interrupt/migraine build (as Migraine)? If you can somehow prove to me that SS will improve your chances of interrupting and winding up the opponent with its 25% longer cast time compared to the 100% from Migraine, i'd love to hear it. Unless i have long cast time spells with me, there really is no reason to ever use that elite.

Hella Good · May 18, 2006, 12:08 AM // 00:08

I have made my arguments about PD clear in the very 1st post I posted. I also clearly doubt any of the people arguing that PD is a somehow inferior elite have actually used it. For my part, I don't speak about things I have never tried.

And I don't need Migraine to interrupt. For those who have to make a skill cast 2 secs versus 1 to interrupt it, by all means do stick to Migraine. For me, Stolen Speed works perfectly well for reasons I have made clear in another thread and posted a link- again- in my very 1st post.

Piece of advice: If you can't use it, don't use it, but don't rant about how horrible it is, because obviously there is people who CAN use it.

Theos · May 18, 2006, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

I have made my arguments about PD clear in the very 1st post I posted. I also clearly doubt any of the people arguing that PD is a somehow inferior elite have actually used it. For my part, I don't speak about things I have never tried.

And I don't need Migraine to interrupt. For those who have to make a skill cast 2 secs versus 1 to interrupt it, by all means do stick to Migraine. For me, Stolen Speed works perfectly well for reasons I have made clear in another thread and posted a link- again- in my very 1st post.

Piece of advice: If you can't use it, don't use it, but don't rant about how horrible it is, because obviously there is people who CAN use it.

The true potency of PD comes out in more organized team battles, its potent ability to simply shut down one/two target(s) (at the expense of you) and keeping you out "danger zones" is warrant enough for elite. The fact that you can, like so few seem to ever do, use BiP to easily remedy the energy costs makes this skill even scarier. Don't also forget you can still uses the many longlasting Mesmer stances with this as they have no real issue with being disabeled when they last for 80 seconds.

With the current meta game revolving around elemental spamming of air/water you can throw in both Mantras, since the remainder of your bar will be limited in use. The buff to the mantras can alone compensate for energy if you are the target, which you so often are.

Anyway, I just felt like supporting Hella. :P

sno · May 18, 2006, 02:57 AM // 02:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theos

The true potency of PD comes out in more organized team battles, its potent ability to simply shut down one/two target(s) (at the expense of you)

That's the beauty of mesmers, they're generally meant to shut down a single target (or sometimes more.) No one ever says anything bad about sacrificing a mesmer to shut down a monk (in 4v4) but imagine the implications of PD? You can effectively shut down 2 offensive casters indefinitely, or at least long enough to make them hate you as much as monks hate their respective mesmers.

There seems to be an angle of PD that not many people have caught onto yet, and that's using skills you never have to cast. Think of a passive prot (bonder) with PD as elite? Depending on the skillset, life bond + balths spirit could give you the infinite energy pool you need to spam PD, while protecting your party as well. It's a thought at least

I haven't even thought of a build, let alone tested it.

Eaimirth Etaivella · May 18, 2006, 03:04 AM // 03:04

As always my solution to just about everything is powerblock; always has and almost always will. A blackout at range; a super powerful blackout. This skill you have to cast multiple times; in the end costs you more energy, has a higher chance of letting a spell through (2 sec recharge) and has a larger miss factor (SB being cast on the target before you can interrupt everything) so it feels awkward.

Avarre has made the point that PB does not do skills; I counter with the point that distracting does, disables for longer, costs less, does not disable the rest of the bar, and is most importantly not an elite. Hell this even does damage; albeit little it is some.

I personally don't like this skill; its not that I can't use it correctly; that I can. However other spells or other skills make it a inferior skill to use. Distracting does what this does but better, powerblock is still the "best" interrupt in the game practically killing the target upon completion. This skill has no "value" and no place in a competitive build.

Hella Good · May 18, 2006, 07:33 AM // 07:33

And, in my personal opinion, Power Block is mediocre. Go figure. I like to have my flexibility and versatility. The whole spell-only interrupt thing is totally foreign to me. I don't want to see any troll unguents, healing sigs, etc. I need to be able to interrupt everything. But then that's just me- I like to be able to do more than just wand once I'm done with the spellcasters.

And the whole comparison with Distracting Shot totally evades my logic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theos

Anyway, I just felt like supporting Hella. :P

Hehe, thx, m8.

Renegade ++RIP++ · May 18, 2006, 07:33 AM // 07:33

I have been using psychic distraction massively in aspenwood. It is ok, but in the end the selfblackout hurts to much. It woud have been a tad better if it would have added x seconds to the recharge time in stead of disabling for x secs. Or make it a blackout on the opponent as well or a disable from all the skills from the same line. The disadvantage of not being able to use any other skills is a real kick in the nuts for any mesmer... (you can't use that shatter hex, that inspire hex, that...)

Not to mention that i'm doubing that it even works correctly seeing as i have seen people use the same skill right after i interrupted them with it.

Trouveur · May 18, 2006, 09:36 AM // 09:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Themis

Almost, as you say

With Ineptitude instead of Recurring Insecurity the warrior would not have last 90 seconds...
Even Conjure Phatasm or Illusion of pain would have been better in your exemple.
Against a warrior almost all the illusion hexes are better than Recurring Insecurity.

Eaimirth Etaivella · May 18, 2006, 12:24 PM // 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

And the whole comparison with Distracting Shot totally evades my logic.

Distracting shot interrupts+disables their skill just like the elite

However;pros
Distracting shot costs less energy than the elite
Distracting shot disables it longer than the elite
Distracting shot causes some damage
Distracting shot is a skill not a spell
Distracting shot does not render the rest of your skills worthless

cons
Distracting shot recharges slower than the elite (can be fixed w/ SQ)
Distracting shot can be blocked by walls
Distracting shot requires a speed buff (composite bow, FW, QW)

How can you not see the comparison>.>

Dragannia · May 18, 2006, 12:48 PM // 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella

As always my solution to just about everything is powerblock; always has and almost always will. A blackout at range; a super powerful blackout. This skill you have to cast multiple times; in the end costs you more energy, has a higher chance of letting a spell through (2 sec recharge) and has a larger miss factor (SB being cast on the target before you can interrupt everything) so it feels awkward.

Avarre has made the point that PB does not do skills; I counter with the point that distracting does, disables for longer, costs less, does not disable the rest of the bar, and is most importantly not an elite. Hell this even does damage; albeit little it is some.

I personally don't like this skill; its not that I can't use it correctly; that I can. However other spells or other skills make it a inferior skill to use. Distracting does what this does but better, powerblock is still the "best" interrupt in the game practically killing the target upon completion. This skill has no "value" and no place in a competitive build.

Power Block also has a 30 second recharge. If you miss, it's 30 seconds before you can use it again. Interrupt a Word. Interrupt a Mend. Turn around, and interrupt an Elem twice. Go back to the Monk. Mesmers are meant to be able to shutdown two foes at a time.

Seriously, Eaimirth. You have the weirdest taste in skills. You don't like Diversion, MoRecovery, and now PD.

fatboyslimerr · May 18, 2006, 02:44 PM // 14:44

lol. Whoever said that PD and the other new elites aren't bad but they aren't to peoples taste is totally right. They can't make new elites that are perfect for everyone and that everyone will love and spam.
Anet Conversation.
Steve - 'Lets make a new mesmer elite that interrupts any skill, costs only 5 energy and recharges instantly. It also disables all that foes skills for 20 seconds'.
Andy- 'Steve, your a muppet, clean out your desk or I'll have Nathan spread that rumour about what you did with Mrs Robinson.

Bit o' fun there. Feel it was needed as some people are taking this 'friendly discussion' too far. If you don't like an elite don't use it, don't continually rant on about how bad it is.... please.

Themis · May 18, 2006, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trouveur

With Ineptitude instead of Recurring Insecurity the warrior would not have last 90 seconds...
Even Conjure Phatasm or Illusion of pain would have been better in your exemple.
Against a warrior almost all the illusion hexes are better than Recurring Insecurity.

Conjure Phantasm ? Are you kidding ? Go try and kill a warrior (who has his healing signet and uses it - no interrupts, hein ?) just by using CP !!!

Ineptitude, probably along with ConjureP, but the total cost is of no means comparable. What's the use of saying that you can slay a W using 70-80 energy, when you can do it (as in my example) using only half of that ? What is better ?

Illusion of pain ???? you've surely never used this skill... Well, it's not a really a problem, but, at least, you should read skill's description... You'll easily understand it's a "finish" skill. You can do no harm at start- or mid-battle with it.

(btw: don't think that it ACTUALLY took me 90 seconds ! It takes no more than 30-40, but i like being tolerant with figures

)

Look, i have a proposal : get Migraine (just for the degen) or Ineptitude, Conjure Phantasm, then the two defensive skills i stated (spirit of failure and distortion). Go and find master of axes at the isle of the nameless. Then try to win. Then, think why you didn't manage to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragannia

Power Block also has a 30 second recharge. If you miss, it's 30 seconds before you can use it again

I have the same opinion about PB : it can only be used in specific situations, mono-attribute casters. I don't like that. It is so specific, that i usually prefer other interrupts. In fact, i think that 'll take only one interrupt from now on : PD (except if i really need another Elite).

Hella Good · May 18, 2006, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella

Distracting shot interrupts+disables their skill just like the elite

However;pros
Distracting shot costs less energy than the elite
Distracting shot disables it longer than the elite
Distracting shot causes some damage
Distracting shot is a skill not a spell
Distracting shot does not render the rest of your skills worthless

cons
Distracting shot recharges slower than the elite (can be fixed w/ SQ)
Distracting shot can be blocked by walls
Distracting shot requires a speed buff (composite bow, FW, QW)

How can you not see the comparison>.>

Tell me, what do I need to do- bang the bells of one of House zu Heltzer's glorious cathedrals to get the point across???

It's a freaking 2 sec recharge interrupt that by simply BEING 2 sec recharge makes it far superior to DS and clearly justifies it being a) an elite and b) shutting down the rest of you skill bar. Tell me, what OTHER interrupt has anywhere NEAR 2 sec recharge??? Seriously, am I being unclear or speaking a foreign language (which I sometimes do)?

On a side note, I did try Soul Barbs + Recurring (didn't think of doing it back when I was testing the skill out) and it's fun. Is it going to be efficient? I can tell you that it is at least viable in Alliance battles (where I tested it)- it made short work of just about anything. I have to test it out with Wastrel's which even with nothing in Domination will still do 60 damage that is perfectly spammable. I do, however, feel a bit uncertain as to how this will work versus a team with good hex management (shall we say Expell Hexes

), and I still feel that apart from the SB + RI combo, RI is one of the less effective elites. Btw, how exactly does the hexing with RI occur? Does it go on top or under the hex that renews it? For some reason I got the feeling it goes under.

ender6 · May 18, 2006, 07:28 PM // 19:28

To those that for some odd reason have decided to champion Recurring Insecurity in this thread, your argument basically boils down to: I need an elite to tell me how to create a build. Which is simply moronic, and secondly a waste of an elite.

Heres a Soul Barbs build I ran before Factions came out:

Soul Barbs
Parasitic Bond
Wasterl's Wory
Mind Wrack
Faint Heartedness
Ineptitude {E}
Distortion
Rez Signet

I fudged it sort of because I haven't run it in a while can't remember the entire skill bar. The point of the build was fairly simply though I wanted Fast cheap hex spells. So I would land SB on target, then cover with PB, follow it with WW, then MW, then back to PB and WW. If I was being attacked by an assasin or warrior I would use FH and Ineptitude. The point being, this was a fun spammable hex build that took advantage of SB. I didn't need an elite like Recurring Insecurity to make this build work. Which by the way if i wanted to mimic and one up I would sub in Life Siphon for Faint Heatedness.

The real problem with a spam hex build is energy management. I think I tried handling that by working the inspiration line into the build. But like i said it's been awhile.

Hella Good · May 18, 2006, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by ender6

Which is simply moronic, and secondly a waste of an elite.

We generally try to snap at each other in more civil ways on this forum.

As for RI, I think I forgot to mention I did it on my Necro (Fast Cast isn't needed when the majority of your spells are 1 cast and Soul Reaping helps a ton with nrg management). Again, I'm not making the case the skill is worthwhile. I'm just saying the Soul Barbs + RI thing works and is fine at least in Alliance battles.

Theos · May 18, 2006, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

Tell me, what do I need to do- bang the bells of one of House zu Heltzer's glorious cathedrals to get the point across???

It's a freaking 2 sec recharge interrupt that by simply BEING 2 sec recharge makes it far superior to DS and clearly justifies it being a) an elite and b) shutting down the rest of you skill bar. Tell me, what OTHER interrupt has anywhere NEAR 2 sec recharge??? Seriously, am I being unclear or speaking a foreign language (which I sometimes do)?

On a side note, I did try Soul Barbs + Recurring (didn't think of doing it back when I was testing the skill out) and it's fun. Is it going to be efficient? I can tell you that it is at least viable in Alliance battles (where I tested it)- it made short work of just about anything. I have to test it out with Wastrel's which even with nothing in Domination will still do 60 damage that is perfectly spammable. I do, however, feel a bit uncertain as to how this will work versus a team with good hex management (shall we say Expell Hexes

), and I still feel that apart from the SB + RI combo, RI is one of the less effective elites. Btw, how exactly does the hexing with RI occur? Does it go on top or under the hex that renews it? For some reason I got the feeling it goes under.

They missed a few problems with DS;
DS is weak to blind
DS is weak to evasion
DS requires a speed boost
DS is affected by one of the most common enchantments in the game, Aegis.

As for RI, I'd not call it a great elite, but I would not call it aweful either. It may be limited but its ability to damage is compensatable. I have tested it and I have not been able to see RI go the top of the stack, I am pretty sure it goes under the applied hex, but I will do further testing.

Indian · May 18, 2006, 09:02 PM // 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystic Memory

Before you disagree, here me out!

Psychic Distraction
Description: All of your other skills are disabled for 8 seconds. If target foe is using a skill, that skill is interrupted and disabled for 5-11 seconds. This is an elite skill.

Why it stinks: Ok.. let me get this straight. Disable 7 of your skills... disable one of the enemies. Hmmm i like this deal....not. Oh 2 sec recharge you say? Ok ill disable 7 of their skills... for 70 energy. Omg so good....not. Basically, bring this skill, and your the rest of your bar has to be useless most of the time in order to make this elite half effective. Oh and btw, more than likely, you can only disable 2 or 3 skills at a time, because the first skill that you "distracted" is probably ready again once you interrupt a third skill.

Arcane Languor
Description: For 1-4 second(s), all spells cast by target foe cause exhaustion. This is an elite skill.

Why it stinks: Ok no need to comment. Im pretty sure everyone knows this move is almost not even worth a regular skill slot, much less an elite slot.

Stolen Speed
Description: For 5-17 seconds, target foe's spells take 25% longer to cast and your spells take 25% less time to cast.. This is an elite skill.

Why it stinks: This elite is just... meh. I can think of many skills way better than this one.

Recurring Insecurity
Description: For 10 seconds, target foe suffers from -1-3 health degeneration. If that foe is hexed again, Recurring Insecurity is renewed for another 10 seconds. This is an elite skill.

Why it stinks: At first glance... people are like yay degen! Besides the fact that there are enough degen skills in the illusion line to put someone at -million degen (but only effectively -10 degen), this skill is equivalent to its non elite counterpart Life Siphon. Except... it doesnt give you regen, AND it lasts less, NOT TO MENTION its an elite. Sucks? Im sorry to say but this skill stinkzors.

Shared Burden
Description: For 3-14 seconds, target foe and all nearby foes move 50% slower. This is an elite skill.

Why it stinks: I dont see why the enemy would be nice and clumped, but even if they were, water magic would be so much better. Oh so much better.

Im sorry to say it, but these elites just plain suck. I absolutely love the mesmer class (i mean... i spent a million buying fissure armor for her ), but sometimes i just think mesmers get the short end of the stick.

If you disagree feel free to explain.

i completely disagree with you, all those skills are as essential as others.
all these skills can be used in PvP mostly and they are good against anti-casters. also Shared Burden is good skill in any relic map or GvG.

Arcane Languor is best skill ever in PvE too, Foe's use skills most of the time the more exhaution they have the less energy they gonna have, and faster we can kill them.

Recurring Insecurity is good to for degen is, you dont need to put mesmer degen only, you can put necromancer hexes, such as para. bond, malaise.

these skills arent rubbish, im sorry to say this but, you gotta think more creative.

Hella Good · May 18, 2006, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Just tested it with a friend. It goes under. So like every time you hex, RI is reapplied, triggers Barbs, but remains under the hex that renewed it. So, that explains why when Monks were Inspa hexing my stuff, RI remained intact. Interesting. Well, like I said, it's a fun thing to do.

Eaimirth Etaivella · May 18, 2006, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

Tell me, what do I need to do- bang the bells of one of House zu Heltzer's glorious cathedrals to get the point across???

It's a freaking 2 sec recharge interrupt that by simply BEING 2 sec recharge makes it far superior to DS and clearly justifies it being a) an elite and b) shutting down the rest of you skill bar. Tell me, what OTHER interrupt has anywhere NEAR 2 sec recharge??? Seriously, am I being unclear or speaking a foreign language (which I sometimes do)?

Wow; have you considered that...
Ranger interrupts for some reason have a higher hit % even though they "should" miss (aegis, distortion, whatever)
Spells have their downfalls as well (dazed, guilt, whatever) not to mention you won't be able to deal with said downfalls since you will have the rest of your bar blacked out (ZOMG)
DS has a 67x10=6.7sec recharge and isnt elite with SQ
You could be using powerblock

For all those who DON'T know why I like powerblock.
-It disables usally half if not all of their bar
--without the other half most builds are worthless
-It allows you to disable multiple people at the same time
--PB one interrupt watch the other
-It is similar to a super blackout...only at range
--disable your bar, lasts 15 seconds

BTW; what the hell is it with missing with PB? You don't miss; it shouldn't be comprehendable. The only things I DO miss on is if I'm trying to be silly and attempt to interrupt a RoF or something; aka randoms only.

Final word of my take on Diversion<Blackout
They both do the same thing; blackout only lasts longer and doesn't give them a choice: this choice although usally a bad choice can be game determining and is thus a bad choice to give the opposition.

Edit-PD is also countered via spellbreaker while DS is not.