Curse

Iskrah · May 17, 2006, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

Hitting in the back scores a critical hit. That's why you don't turn tail and run from Eviscerate Spikers.

Things like Elevation also affect damage....but its kinda fickle and hard to test and come up with a definate amount....

I knew about elevation but thank you for the information on hitting in the back. I'll learn a new thing every day here

zeno · May 17, 2006, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

Say what u will, but I ve never done 174 dmg to a Afflicted warrior with that Dual Shot on steriods idea there. but I have with The Sundering Shadow Bow and penitrating attack. (sure I got him in the back, but hey, his back was to me)

Also If u really wanna spend half the battle casting stuff, just go R/Mo and cast Judges Insight on yourself and sunder away.

What level was the afflicted? And what was its armor(if it dropped)?

imo, basing one shot dmg with pve mobs is not a very good idea. It's easy to say that I have done 230+ dmg with dual shot against pve mobs in core campaign areas, because I have. Instead, go test your theory against the armored dummy in Isle of the Nameless.

I did a little test of my own:

First Round:
My main target was the 60AL wood dummy, since that's caster armor, and they're usually what rangers should target in pvp. Using the combo you described, I used RtW, then Penetrating Attack with a 20/19 Sundering Shadow Bow. Marksmanship 16 of course. On a regular hit, I did about 80-90 dmg per Penetrating Attack.

Second Round:
Main target was the 60AL wood dummy again. I reallocated some points from marks+expertise and pumped Fire Mastery to 10. Then, using a Vampric +5/-1 Shadow Bow, I used Conjure Flame -> Kindle Arrows -> Dual Shot. Guess how much dmg I did on a normal shot?

( 30(base dmg) + 18(Kindle) + 10(Conjure) + 5(Vamp) ) * 2 = ~125 dmg

Notice I didn't use spirits at all, and it's not difficult to keep Conjure + Kindle up at all times. With that kind of damage, I can take out a caster with 4 dual shots. Of course in a real situation a caster wouldn't stand there and take 4 dual shots. However, with a spike ranger, the combo is usually Dual -> Quick/Punishing -> Savage. Which means not only does Duel Shot get the +dmg benefits, but the following 2 shots as well. Not to mention, since the spike comes from many sources of small damage, anti-spike protective spirit won't do jack. Furthermore, if you're in spiked-oriented 8v8 team, you'll likely have a order necro on the team, and dual-shot quickly escalates up to amazing damage.

Believe what you want about how base AP stacks, it's your own loss and I'm in no mood to argue. Dual Shot is quite superior in terms of dealing damage, otherwise everyone wouldn't be using it in their builds. If you can't get your dual shot to outdmg your PA, then it's your own fault for not using it correctly.

Orange Milk · May 18, 2006, 03:37 AM // 03:37

First off, you missed the point some. See my previous post about having to datnd around awile casting and getting iterupted BEFORE u evn get to fire a Daul shot.

Second, I use a 14^50 20/20 customized shadow bow, it will do 35% more dmg than the bow u tested.

third, im fireing a penitrating/sundering shot every three secs, you will fire a Daul every 7.

Go back do ur math figure out "How fast Damage will escalate" while u stand around for 7 secs and then stop to relaod preps and spirits and what not while I'm fireing away with my 2 skills every 3 tops.

Also I have alot more room in my skill bar for waht ever I want since I dont need to carry 3 skills to pump up my Daul shot skills, yes suck up 4 spots for skill. I'll use 2 to compliment my bow

Also, nope never had a 10/10

zeno · May 18, 2006, 10:08 AM // 10:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

First off, you missed the point some. See my previous post about having to datnd around awile casting and getting iterupted BEFORE u evn get to fire a Daul shot.

I did read your post. And no I don't get interrupted nearly as often as you make it out to be. Preparation + conjure takes me a whopping 3 seconds total, at the beginning. From then conjure last 60 seconds, and I only need to recast the preparation every 24 seconds. Unless I get specific ranger hate from a mesmer, I don't get interrupted at all. And how about you read my post about me not casting spirits?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

Second, I use a 14^50 20/20 customized shadow bow, it will do 35% more dmg than the bow u tested.

I am using a 15^50 customized shadow bow, something that should be obvious. Why don't you head over to Isle of the Nameless and explain to the wooden dummy how you consistantly normal-hit for ~125hp with your bow that does "35% more dmg"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

third, im fireing a penitrating/sundering shot every three secs, you will fire a Daul every 7.

looks like you don't understand the concept of spiking, go read my post again. Or learn what spiking means through other means.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

Go back do ur math figure out "How fast Damage will escalate" while u stand around for 7 secs and then stop to relaod preps and spirits and what not while I'm fireing away with my 2 skills every 3 tops.

I went back to my math, and it still works out. And no I don't stand around. What kind of idiot fires off one shot and then stop to renew the enchants/preparations that are already up? After I pull off my spike combo, guess what else I can do as a ranger? Snare, interrupt, poison, run, ect. And when the team needs it again, I can dish out 125 dmg + 2 interrupts in under 1 second. As for reload preps and spirits, read first part of this post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

Also I have alot more room in my skill bar for waht ever I want since I dont need to carry 3 skills to pump up my Daul shot skills, yes suck up 4 spots for skill. I'll use 2 to compliment my bow

I don't know how you came up 3 skills to pump Duel Shot. I clearly stated Conjure Flame + Kindle Arrows. Don't know about you, but I've been able to count to 2 since I was 2 years old.

Assuming that you mistyped and meant to say "2 skills to pump up duel shot", that's not a big sacrifice for specialization at all. I can drop those 2 and "add whatever I want", but then I'd be a jack of all trades, master of none. As of right now, I am as good as a ranger can be at spiking, and very effective at interrupting + kiting. As such, I am a valuable addition to my team. With your 2 bow skill, what can you do better than other specialized rangers while depending on that myriad array of 6 skills that doesn't work with your weapon?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

Also, nope never had a 10/10

I never mentioned a 10/10 anywhere, so don't know where this came from.

Before you reply to this post again, really, go try this stuff out. There's no motivation for me to just pull stuff out of thin air. Everything I say has been battle-tested in pvp. You can theorycraft all day on paper and get grounded into dust by an opponent who has real pvp experience. It happened to me too.

Orange Milk · May 18, 2006, 10:57 AM // 10:57

Zeno please read the ENTIRE thread as not everything I said was directed at you.

Also the title of the thread is Daul vs Penitrating

not

Daul + vamp bow + preps + enchananments + spirits + other attack skills in the meantime vs penitrating.

Some has an open spot in their skill and wondering how to decide between the two they can find out here. If u have a certain build, post it the build section where it belongs, "spiker" build is not what this tread is about.

and the whole thing about what bow u used, wtf is that? like EVERYONE just automatically know what bow u use and EVERYBODY uses the same bows?

I'm done with this thread I've made my point, I do plenty of damage and its getting out of control by people who cant read. You have your lousy opinion and I have mine. w/e

nomed · May 18, 2006, 02:57 PM // 14:57

orange milk, you suck ;((

zeno · May 19, 2006, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Yes I expect people to know, it's common knowledge. The bow stat for the combo I described is pretty much standard, +15% dmg from either 15%^50% or 15% always with the -5e or -10AL, and customized for the extra +20%. And no, not everyone have to use the same bow to know what the public standard is. And I did mention that it was a sunder shadow bow. So like I said, the only thing I left out was the obvious.

I could write more to refute every point you made like I did in my previous post, but I think I've written enough for anyone with common sense. I'm sorry if I haven't explained everything properly, but at this point I don't think you really know how the game works. That's fine though, everyone learns at their own pace. I'm done explaining.

Maria The Princess · May 19, 2006, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Yeah i can deffinately see how thats better. I would pick zealous over vampiric myself because 10dmg isnt that great compared to being able to keep constant high dmg.

in a ranger spike team its the instant damage that counts most, not long term.... if 5 rangers choose vamp bow over zealots and use dual shot, here you go 50dmg right there base...+THE SPIKE!!!! if u dont take down target immediatly, opposite team monk will heal him fast, and we gotta start over. if hes down right away... that 50hp stolem might be the last drop he would have if not for the vamp bows...

long term is more pve style, plus, with zealot mode, youll be getting +2 e per shot...most! better off taking other playr down faster, and then drain enchants to get 10e instantly, and get the next target ready to be spiked