Curse

Isileth · May 05, 2006, 03:24 AM // 03:24

In almost all the build i look at i see dual shot being used as the main dmg dealer. In my experience penetrating does a lot more dmg. I often hit for 40-60 with penetrating where i would only hit 20-30 in total with dual. I can understand that extra damage is doubled because its 2 arrows but the higher the AL the more penetrating outshines dual to a point i would think where even with a few dmg boosts it would still win.

Schorny · May 05, 2006, 03:41 AM // 03:41

if you run read the wind and a vampiric bow, dual shot is better than penetrating - because you get 14 bonus damage per arrow (9 from read the wind and 5 from vamp). that quickly sums up...

and don't forget: these 14 damage are armor neutral, which means even on a 200 armor target you'll get this 14 damage per arrow...

if you don't run read the wind or vampiric bows, penetrating might be better. and marauder also needs to be looked at - though i hadn't had time yet to calculate damage for marauders...

cheetum · May 05, 2006, 04:46 AM // 04:46

actually RtW is up to 10 damage, 15 per arrow or 30 total armor-ignoring damage. FW (favorable winds) adds another 6 per arrow. Kindle arrows is even more then RtW (up to 25 per arrow if Wilderness attribute maxed out with sup rune, but somewhere around 20 is more reasonable). elementalist secondaries can add conjure flame for quite a bit more stacked on to the kindle.

FW(6) + kindle(20) + conjure flame(10) + vampiric bow string(5) = +82 armor ignoring damage per dual shot, +41 per quickshot [e], normal shot, or needle shot while dual is recharging. 4-5 rangers running this build and u have a pretty deadly spike team

some even prefer zealous over vamp since this is a fairly heavy energy drain especially since you really dont have many points to spare for expertise. with zealous its a bit less damage but u can deal it for a longer sustained duration.

Isileth · May 05, 2006, 05:12 AM // 05:12

Yeah i can deffinately see how thats better. I would pick zealous over vampiric myself because 10dmg isnt that great compared to being able to keep constant high dmg.

Huntmaster · May 05, 2006, 05:17 AM // 05:17

Yeah, thats pretty much it.

Dual = Vamp bow.
Power/Pen = Other bow.

Nehsher TalonStrike · May 05, 2006, 06:49 AM // 06:49

I still prefer adding ignite instead of kindle to my dual shots, yeah the damage is less but if the mobs are crowding you get to share some of the love, also if you mis your target he still recieves fire damage from the area of effect

cheetum · May 05, 2006, 09:17 AM // 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nehsher TalonStrike

I still prefer adding ignite instead of kindle to my dual shots, yeah the damage is less but if the mobs are crowding you get to share some of the love, also if you mis your target he still recieves fire damage from the area of effect

well the heavy conjure/kindle/dualshot damage stack is mainly used in PVP spike teams where enemies dont generally bunch together and your main objective is to focus as much damage on one target as possible. for PVE ignite is good BUT unlike kindle it does not trigger the conjure flame bonus unless your weapon has a fiery bow string instead of the recommended vamp or zealous.

which brings up an interesting new skill brutal weapon. since it does not work with other enchants it cant stack with conjure flame, however a benefit of using this instead (other then that it works with ignite) is that it can be cast on someone else which means only one ritualist on your team needs to bring it. if u decide to go this route be sure others in your group know not to cast enchants on any BW rangers as it will nullify the bonus. some rangers may decide to go rit secondary for this skill as well as guided weapon in the same attribute line. it does not stack but a good alternative against those pesky foes that use those annoying block/evade stances. the damage might be less but its better then doing no damage at all

(edit: oh and guided weapon still hits if u are blinded too!)

Nehsher TalonStrike · May 05, 2006, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheetum

well the heavy conjure/kindle/dualshot damage stack is mainly used in PVP spike teams where enemies dont generally bunch together and your main objective is to focus as much damage on one target as possible. for PVE ignite is good BUT unlike kindle it does not trigger the conjure flame bonus unless your weapon has a fiery bow string instead of the recommended vamp or zealous.

ok i did not know that but as i said before you miss they burn,so instead of no damage they still get some fire dmg...not sure if it works with evade I must check it out.

kagunster · May 14, 2006, 04:06 AM // 04:06

lots of people are runnig seeking aroows now in pvp, so the sundering usually works better there

Iskrah · May 14, 2006, 10:27 AM // 10:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by kagunster

lots of people are runnig seeking aroows now in pvp, so the sundering usually works better there

I doubt "lots of people" do that. Haven't seen any for the matter. Maybe you do?

K.Ichigo · May 14, 2006, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Maybe people who HAVE the skill do? Most people haven't bothered to acquire Seeking Arrows yet.

And is the fire damage from Kindle/Conjure really armour-ignoring?

Shadow-Hunter · May 14, 2006, 10:00 PM // 22:00

It isent possible to run Conjure along with a Vamp bow, as Conjure needs an Fiery weap for example.. ? or does the Kindle arrows make the Conjure trigger?

~Shadow

Orange Milk · May 16, 2006, 04:38 PM // 16:38

So your saying, when the battle starts spend awhile ( 8 to 10 secs) casting 3 0r 4 spirits and prepartations, while eating away at your energy, so your 7 sec reset dual shot can acctully do some damage. get 2 duals off before the preps are gone, then recast all those and go again, in the meantime, mind you, make sure you never get interupted while dropping 3 or 4 spirits and preps, and be sure sure to take no damage so u will survive long enough to get of enough dual shot arrows.

OR

Get a Horn or Shadow bow (10% armor pen) ad a 20/20 string and fire away with Penitrating Attack and Sundering attack. they reset fastenough that just about every shot u fire is loaded up with 30% to 50% armor pen and you have plenty of energy as well with your expertise set right.

Gee what should I choose, Tons of preps and interuptions or simple point and click of 2 skills?

SnipiousMax · May 16, 2006, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow-Hunter

It isent possible to run Conjure along with a Vamp bow, as Conjure needs an Fiery weap for example.. ? or does the Kindle arrows make the Conjure trigger?

~Shadow

Kindle makes your damage type fire.

Cecil The Magician · May 16, 2006, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

So your saying, when the battle starts spend awhile ( 8 to 10 secs) casting 3 0r 4 spirits and prepartations, while eating away at your energy, so your 7 sec reset dual shot can acctully do some damage. get 2 duals off before the preps are gone, then recast all those and go again, in the meantime, mind you, make sure you never get interupted while dropping 3 or 4 spirits and preps, and be sure sure to take no damage so u will survive long enough to get of enough dual shot arrows.

OR

Get a Horn or Shadow bow (10% armor pen) ad a 20/20 string and fire away with Penitrating Attack and Sundering attack. they reset fastenough that just about every shot u fire is loaded up with 30% to 50% armor pen and you have plenty of energy as well with your expertise set right.

Gee what should I choose, Tons of preps and interuptions or simple point and click of 2 skills?

Simplicity is great is it not?
I prefer using something like this now that there is a duplicate Penetrating Attack. This means also that another prep, like Apply Poison can be used in place of Kindle or Read The Wind, for degen pressure.

Yakumo · May 17, 2006, 12:15 PM // 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

Get a Horn or Shadow bow (10% armor pen) ad a 20/20 string and fire away with Penitrating Attack and Sundering attack. they reset fastenough that just about every shot u fire is loaded up with 30% to 50% armor pen and you have plenty of energy as well with your expertise set right.

Read on guildwiki that armor penetration on hornbows do not stack with Penetrating Attack. As both are base armor penetration, only the highest is used.

A Sundering string gives bonus armor penetration (+20% AP) and this will stack with either the hornbow or Penetrating Attack.

With that in mind, a 20/20 Sundering hornbow should give:

10% - 30% AP with a normal shot (10% AP from hornbow used).

20% - 40% AP with Penetrating Attack (10% AP from hornbow ignored as it's the lowest base AP).

Orange Milk · May 17, 2006, 12:23 PM // 12:23

Say what u will, but I ve never done 174 dmg to a Afflicted warrior with that Dual Shot on steriods idea there. but I have with The Sundering Shadow Bow and penitrating attack. (sure I got him in the back, but hey, his back was to me)

Also If u really wanna spend half the battle casting stuff, just go R/Mo and cast Judges Insight on yourself and sunder away.

Iskrah · May 17, 2006, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

Say what u will, but I ve never done 174 dmg to a Afflicted warrior with that Dual Shot on steriods idea there. but I have with The Sundering Shadow Bow and penitrating attack. (sure I got him in the back, but hey, his back was to me)

Also If u really wanna spend half the battle casting stuff, just go R/Mo and cast Judges Insight on yourself and sunder away.

Actually Judge's Insight doesn't last very long (I think it's 14 seconds with 8 in Smite, 16.66 seconds with 20% enchant, which is alright but my point is that it's no different).

Got a screenshot for that 174 dmg with JI, Sundering string and penetrating attack all at the same time on that mob? Which happens once every 5 times you have a critical (which itself happens every 5 times at best)? I haven't made the math, seems like a pretty big number that should be calculated, but I'm just saying it's not enough of a proof for your build to be the best.

Basically you're saying that the best setting is the one-hit wonder, not taking into consideration odds of the statistical "anomaly", peak. But I'd say that most people would take consistency over one-hit wonders. That's why your setting is neither the most efficient or the best energy-wise (certainly not). It's good enough to be of some use in PvE, it's not random, but we're discussing why people are stacking up different options to make their damage optimum.

By the way, I haven't read anywhere neither have I experienced that hitting someone in the back was helping in GW. By I'll assume you were kidding.

You seem a bit monomaniac about Armor Penetration. I'm 99% sure you were using 10/10 sundering strings before.

mighty xxl · May 17, 2006, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheetum

actually RtW is up to 10 damage, 15 per arrow or 30 total armor-ignoring damage. FW (favorable winds) adds another 6 per arrow. Kindle arrows is even more then RtW (up to 25 per arrow if Wilderness attribute maxed out with sup rune, but somewhere around 20 is more reasonable). elementalist secondaries can add conjure flame for quite a bit more stacked on to the kindle.

FW(6) + kindle(20) + conjure flame(10) + vampiric bow string(5) = +82 armor ignoring damage per dual shot, +41 per quickshot [e], normal shot, or needle shot while dual is recharging. 4-5 rangers running this build and u have a pretty deadly spike team

some even prefer zealous over vamp since this is a fairly heavy energy drain especially since you really dont have many points to spare for expertise. with zealous its a bit less damage but u can deal it for a longer sustained duration.

That make me laugh so hard

+82 armor ignoring damage lol
Reason: Kindle and Conjure do fire damage. Higher armor means less damage. Try that combo on a ranger and u shall see that u will not get +82 dmg armor ignoring. Not to mention if u find one with drakescale armor

SnipiousMax · May 17, 2006, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iskrah

By the way, I haven't read anywhere neither have I experienced that hitting someone in the back was helping in GW. By I'll assume you were kidding.

Hitting in the back scores a critical hit. That's why you don't turn tail and run from Eviscerate Spikers.

Things like Elevation also affect damage....but its kinda fickle and hard to test and come up with a definate amount....