Curse

Atilladude · May 18, 2006, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Yea i know, plenty of threads about this in the past, but I'm still not quite sure. I've invested a bit into swords, however that's nothing i can't avoid by selling my victo's blade and it's damn health degen. Swords are so simple, deep wound, gash, final thrust, and throw in some power attacks and galrath slashes and you've done some damage. Axes look a bit more complicated (relative to swords) and look better for damage and in situations where i'm farming and such. I like swords, but i've never been fully convinced, should i just get a really good sword (my victo isn't exactly the best green weapon ever) or should i invest in a good axe and a crapload of axe skills and give it a whirl?

Donut Zeke · May 18, 2006, 12:13 AM // 00:13

I just made this decision a few days ago, and I chose the axes. They are much more fun and actually can be a little of a challenge. Plus you have to make decisions on the spot instead of just clicking the same buttons in the same order..

Snow Board Guy · May 18, 2006, 12:17 AM // 00:17

yes i have switched to axes. Higher damage output (use high axe mastery = WAY higher than swords)+ axes look kooler

Atilladude · May 18, 2006, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Yea, i'm getting a bit bored with swords, i'll keep my spares but goodbye Victo!

The Real Roy Keane · May 18, 2006, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Keep it man. It's one of the better greens.

fatboyslimerr · May 18, 2006, 02:54 PM // 14:54

They are both good. Just different.

Swords are good in the right context, e.g. sever (bleed) can provide really useful cover or degen stacked up with poison or disease or something. Plus the new sword skills and elites look pretty good, like sun and moon slash and dragon slash {E}. Sword skills on the whole cost less adrenaline and I think they attack slightly faster (this can be tested using frenzy) however they, overtime do less damage than axes. People underestimate Final Thrust. Its soooo good. With lots of sword points it does like +70 dmg if foe is below half health, add that onto about 15 = about 95 damage. This will basically finish someone off (in PvP) in one hit, giving them less of a chance to be healed.

Axes on the other hand or more flexable and work with a greater number of builds. They definitely do more damage over time and Eviscerate {E} is simply superb (still on about PvP). Axes aren't really more complicated (if by complicated you mean by some of their skills only taking affect if they are deep wounded -- then please don't ever try being a mesmer

). If you use frenzy in a build with axes, your DPS will be much greater than a swordsman using frenzy. Also axes now have 2 area attacks, cyclone axe and triple chop {E} which I imagine will be great for PvE (I don't PvE anymore).

Just depends what you want really but I prefer swords for PvE (due to degen from bleed + final thrust) and axes for PvP (do the most damage and are just generally great fun + chaos axes look awesome. Although there are some great swords builds in PvP.

Its all about context

Mournblade · May 18, 2006, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Great answer fatboyslimerr! The only thing I would add is that a warrior should be flexible to take advantage of all builds. I keep three swords, three axes, a hammer, and a bow on hand just to be ready for as much as possible.
(carry a spare sword to hold when not fighting - that avoids the vampiric degen)

Yukito Kunisaki · May 18, 2006, 04:00 PM // 16:00

The axe elite, Eviscerate {E}, is undoubtedly the best weapon elite in the game for a warrior.

No other warrior elite does THAT much damage and lands a deep wound at 16 weapon mastery.

What kind of makes this the suckage... is that no matter how hard anyone tries to fight using logic and math, Eviscerate {E} is the most devastatingly efficient warrior skill for damage in the game.

Don't argue with me, I'm just following Ensign's advice. I'm too lazy to do THAT kind of research on something as trivial as a game, however...

yeah, Eviscerate makes axe warriors the executioners of this game...

I'd say that Axes do more damage than hammers in that regard...

Zui · May 18, 2006, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Check out the thread about elementalists in Gladiator's Arena(first post), there are figures for non-skill dps vs 60 al targets. Gives you a perspective on the damage aspect.

On another note, Victo's Blade is quite good.

fatboyslimerr · May 18, 2006, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Victos blade (or any vampiric weapon) + frenzy, or now-a-days beserker stance + on your knees + vamp weapon basically means your stealin' more health, making -1 health degen more worth it and increasing your DPS. When I played W/N using life siphon and life transfer {E} it was logical to use victos. Something I learned though, degen sword + frenzy means you die pretty easily lol.

Cash · May 18, 2006, 06:31 PM // 18:31

i think swords and axes have their own uses, but i find swords to be more useful overall. theyre slightly faster and deal out conditions like theres no tomorrow. swords and ViM simply shine together, and there are tons of farming builds based around this- hydras, griffs, minos, imps, etc, etc.

that said, axes definatly have their uses too- higher damage, eviscerate, and cyclones synergy with some monk skills to name a few.

as a general rule in PvE, ive found that if the majority of your targets are "fleshy" (subject to bleeding), go with swords. against others (jades, skeletons, phantoms), axes are better suited for the task.

i personally use both, depending on what im doing, and i doubt i could limit myself to using only one of them.

Warskull · May 18, 2006, 07:12 PM // 19:12

1) Selling your victos blade would be flat out stupid. It is the best possible sword you could get. 15>50%, 3/1 Vampic, and +30 HP is argueably the best sword out there, the only real competition are +5 armor mods or zealous mods (only in specific builds too.) Ignore what you hear in Lion's Arch, sundering is still a weak mod. If you use sundering you are banking on it triggering during a spike, it is poor DPS. In fact you will gain more DPS by switching to an ebon weapon most of the time.

2) Sword and Axe aren't as simple as you think. They both have many intricacies. The strength of axe is that it very easily applies deep wound (the best condition in the game.) It can also output some strong DPS and has a strong set of adrenal skills. However sword doesn't need an elite, while axe is decidely weaker without an elite. They are really a choice of playstyle. It is probably easier to play a really good axe warrior than a really good sword warrior, though.

Some sword combos:
Sever, Gash, Final or Sever, Gash Quivering (brutal spikes)
Dragon Slash, Sun and Moon Slash, Galrath Slash (good dps)

Some axe combos:
Eviscerate, Executioner's, Penetrating
Cleave, Penetrating, Penetrating

Quote:

Victos blade (or any vampiric weapon) + frenzy, or now-a-days beserker stance + on your knees + vamp weapon basically means your stealin' more health, making -1 health degen more worth it and increasing your DPS. When I played W/N using life siphon and life transfer {E} it was logical to use victos. Something I learned though, degen sword + frenzy means you die pretty easily lol.

Part of it could be that your warrior is just really badly built.

Atilladude · May 18, 2006, 08:06 PM // 20:06

With the build i'm using, the health degen has no logic becaused i'm not stealing enough health. I'm not abandoning swords altogether, I still have an FDS and a really good purple Gladius. I traded my victo for a really nice axe, once i get more money, i'll get an even better one. Currently I'm trying to get to copperhammer so i can get cleave and spam the carp (yes carp) out of it. Once I get all my skills straightened out, I'll head back to precipice so i can make better use of eviscerate.

Katari · May 18, 2006, 09:18 PM // 21:18

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Something I learned though, degen sword + frenzy means you die pretty easily lol.

When using frenzy, you get a net gain in health from using a vamp weapon. In any case, -1 degen should not have been your cause of death.

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Sword skills on the whole cost less adrenaline and I think they attack slightly faster (this can be tested using frenzy) however they, overtime do less damage than axes.

Lower critical hit damage is what gives swords a lower DPS. Swords attack at the same seed as axes.

fatboyslimerr · May 18, 2006, 09:40 PM // 21:40

W/N -- frenzy means you take double damage, -1 health degen means u lose 2 health a second. If your gettin' bashed a bit and being degened this can add up. Otherwise this build is great (not badly built, was just pointing out you gotta be careful using frenzy like you do in any build).

Cleave is pretty poor. Stick with Eviscerate {E}.

I'm pretty sure (and if there isn't a difference its due to lag) that swords are tiny bit faster and its only noticible when using things like frenzy, as in in 8 seconds you may hit one extra time or something not even worth boring with lol.

Also I'd forgotten about critical hits. This is important and its what gives axe their better DPS. Its also why Eviscerate can sometimes hit for huge amounts of damage 90+ or something.

Usually, in most cases, I think axes are better but this is mainly due to the lack of decent sword elites. But with factions and mainly Dragon Slash {E}, this could change. Dragon Slash does + xx damage (decent amount) and gives you adrenaline, meaning you'll be able to use it again sooner as well as your other adrenaline attacks. This possibly means higher DPS than axe warrior if you can use damaging adrenaline attacks more often. Just an idea.

Katari · May 19, 2006, 12:42 AM // 00:42

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Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr

W/N -- frenzy means you take double damage, -1 health degen means u lose 2 health a second. If your gettin' bashed a bit and being degened this can add up. Otherwise this build is great (not badly built, was just pointing out you gotta be careful using frenzy like you do in any build).

Yes, you do take more damage with frenzy. That has nothing to do with degen from vamp. When hitting a target with a normal attack speed, there is no net health loss. There, it's in bold. Can't miss it. There is a net health GAIN when you're using a vamp weapon with IAS. that mwans you leech more health than you loose from degen.

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I'm pretty sure (and if there isn't a difference its due to lag) that swords are tiny bit faster and its only noticible when using things like frenzy, as in in 8 seconds you may hit one extra time or something not even worth boring with lol.

It's not worth bothering with, because swords and axes attack at the same speed. If you think swords are in some way faster, well, you're wrong.

In PvP, swords have the best attack chain that dosn't include an elite. So if you want to use "Charge!", Auspicous Parry, or Bull's Charge, etc... then go with swords. That changes in PvE, because Cyclone Axe is a decent PvE skill too. Dragon's Slash looks like a nice PvE skill, but not so much for PvP, because of how poorly it interacts with Final Thrust.

Yukito Kunisaki · May 19, 2006, 05:35 AM // 05:35

Cleave is good if your enemies use plague touch
[[freakin' jade scarabs, gah]]

But aside from that, Evis is better... Getting Plagued just before you land killing blow [freakin' comp knows how to read the skill before you even land the damn condition], cleave rips them in half

fatboyslimerr · May 19, 2006, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Katari, I said if you care to look, that if your getting degened by hexes or conditions that an extra arrow of degen hurts and your no longer such a good tank if your taking double damage. So basically don't use frenzy for PvE.

There's no need to take out a fresh can of 'na your clearly wrong' when its not even that important to the post. Frenzy applies to any warrior build and I know the health gain makes up for the -1 health especially if using frenzy but if you think about someone spammin' skills which set you on fire, lets say your on fire for 10 seconds. Over 10 seconds -1 (from sword) and -6 (from being on fire = 140, and warriors aren't know for their healing. Do not use frenzy and healing signet at the same time lol..

Simple summary
Swords = less damaging than axes or hammers, same speed as axes but good for conditions: bleed, deep wound and cripple.
Axes = More damaging than swords (due to higher damage range plus more chance of critical hits) and more damaging skills e.g. Eviscerate and Executioners.

Katari · May 19, 2006, 06:31 PM // 18:31

The extra arrow of degen dosen't hurt, because as long as you're hitting things, it's as if you have no extra arrow of degen on you at all. Hitting a target with a regular attack speed steals as much health back as you would loose. Sure, it would hurt if you're not hitting things with the vamp weapon, but then you should weapon swap anyway.

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Axes = More damaging than swords (due to higher damage range plus more chance of critical hits) and more damaging skills e.g. Eviscerate and Executioners.

Axes have the same chance of getting a cit hit as swords. And yes, you were wrong before, because you implied that swords were somehow faster.

Warskull · May 19, 2006, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr

There's no need to take out a fresh can of 'na your clearly wrong' when its not even that important to the post. Frenzy applies to any warrior build and I know the health gain makes up for the -1 health especially if using frenzy but if you think about someone spammin' skills which set you on fire, lets say your on fire for 10 seconds. Over 10 seconds -1 (from sword) and -6 (from being on fire = 140, and warriors aren't know for their healing. Do not use frenzy and healing signet at the same time lol..

Simple summary
Swords = less damaging than axes or hammers, same speed as axes but good for conditions: bleed, deep wound and cripple.
Axes = More damaging than swords (due to higher damage range plus more chance of critical hits) and more damaging skills e.g. Eviscerate and Executioners.

It is because you are clearly wrong and continue to provide players with bad information.

As said all weapons have the exact same critical rates. The DPS difference between axe and sword is minimal over time. The criticals just hurt more when the land. Sword vs Axe is all about which skill chain you want.

Vampic weapons give -2hp/second degen no matter what, the only time it changes is if something pushes you past 10 degen, then the vampic weapon doesn't matter anymore (you would still be at 10 degen if you took it off.) You just about break even with a max vampic sword or axe at normal attack speed (small fractional gain.) The only time vampic causes you to lose health is when your attacks are blocked, evaded, missed, or your attack speed is reduced. Even in this case the health loss is quite minimal. Vampic is a top tier mod. Just because sundering costs more doesn't mean it is good. The old sundering was .1 dps, practically the same as a blank weapon.

There are plenty of IAS skills in PvE you can utilize other than frenzy. Tiger's fury is quite popular on warriors in PvE. You don't need frenzy in PvE either. Good players can use frenzy quite successfully in PvE though. Warriors don't have to be tanks and are far better as damage sources.

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With the build i'm using, the health degen has no logic becaused i'm not stealing enough health. I'm not abandoning swords altogether, I still have an FDS and a really good purple Gladius. I traded my victo for a really nice axe, once i get more money, i'll get an even better one. Currently I'm trying to get to copperhammer so i can get cleave and spam the carp (yes carp) out of it. Once I get all my skills straightened out, I'll head back to precipice so i can make better use of eviscerate.

Save your money, wait until you beat factions, then select the vampic axe at the end. FDS is really not a very good sword, it looks shiny but a lot of PvE monsters are resistant to fire damage. You are just gimping your damage. The reason why selling your Victo's Blade is bad is due to the fact that it is the best green sword you can get your hands on and better than most of the swords PvE players put together. Turn on observer mode some time and count the victos blades that the top guilds run. If you see a sword warrior he likely has one. You would have been better just using a max damage axe you found until you could put together a proper axe.