Curse

skreet preacha · Apr 28, 2006, 11:53 AM // 11:53

no, they didnt boost BoTM, imho. and i'm not sure what this 10 cap thing is, i get up to 15-20 minions since the nerf. i heard it maybe a cap on the "type" of minion u use, since i use a mix of fiends and minions. but now, how much health you sac for BoTM is directly tied to how many minions you have, so yeah, its cool to spam if u have like 10 or under, but once u get around 15 minions and above, you sac ALOT of health for BoTM, too much to effectively be trying to spam. :-P

NinjaKai · Apr 28, 2006, 11:55 AM // 11:55

Running is pretty much impossible in Cantha. Only real way is to fight your way through.

B Ephekt · Apr 29, 2006, 10:56 AM // 10:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xpl0iter

People used to compliment me for doing a damage not through a visible army, but through the hp decrease of their bars in my ELE times. Who would not appreciate a good 10 to 15 foe dying at same time in less than 30 sec? Any ele could pull that before AI nerf.

Thats all i gotta say to you for now.

Regardz

Why are you posting this crap in a thread about MMs?

Also, they didn't "nerf" the enemy AI; they improved it to a level it should've always been at. Enemies shouldn't be stupid enough to sit there and die due to AOE damage, it's just not realistic.

suiraCLAW · Apr 29, 2006, 12:51 PM // 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by skreet preacha

no, they didnt boost BoTM, imho. and i'm not sure what this 10 cap thing is, i get up to 15-20 minions since the nerf. i heard it maybe a cap on the "type" of minion u use, since i use a mix of fiends and minions. but now, how much health you sac for BoTM is directly tied to how many minions you have, so yeah, its cool to spam if u have like 10 or under, but once u get around 15 minions and above, you sac ALOT of health for BoTM, too much to effectively be trying to spam. :-P

Give us a screen of those 15-20 minions pls... (because it should be impossible)

Xpl0iter · Apr 29, 2006, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by B Ephekt

Why are you posting this crap in a thread about MMs?

Also, they didn't "nerf" the enemy AI; they improved it to a level it should've always been at. Enemies shouldn't be stupid enough to sit there and die due to AOE damage, it's just not realistic.

A crap ? it seems more like GET ON YOUR FEET AND STOP CRYING enchantment.
No, AI nerf is a term used by many to call the AI update, Just like a cap on MM is considered a NERF.

Here you go: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nerf&r=f
1. nerf 198 up, 12 down

To make worse or weaken, usually in the context of weakening something in order to balance out a game.

Carrying out a huge army and deal every thing mostly on a solo basis is *NOT* realistic from any side as well. And No, i had given an example of the old times which is quite similar to what you have Now.
And why am i on this forum? I never found my self reading any where that other professions are not allowed over this forum. Scroll back, you will find a couple of others who say similar thing to what i have said. Guess you need to check the other threads as well.

B Ephekt · Apr 29, 2006, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

No, AI nerf is a term used by many to call the AI update, Just like a cap on MM is considered a NERF.

Semantics, whatever. I don't consider it a nerf since most people use "nerf" in the context of making things worse. The AOE nerf fixed AI problems, so it was an improvement in my opinion.

Quote:

Carrying out a huge army and deal every thing mostly on a solo basis is *NOT* realistic from any side as well.

I don’t know where you’re basing that it’s “not realistic” on, but I do agree that MMs were overpowered. (And yes, I do play MM pretty regularly.)

Quote:

And why am i on this forum? I never found my self reading any where that other professions are not allowed over this forum. Scroll back, you will find a couple of others who say similar thing to what i have said. Guess you need to check the other threads as well.

I didn’t ask you why you were on this forum… I asked why you kept posting elementalist crap in the MM thread. Sorry, but I didn’t see a context for any of your posts in here, aside the “well my ele used to be able to click a button and kill things, but now it's slightly harder” stuff.

But this is way off topic, so I'll stop now...

Xpl0iter · Apr 30, 2006, 02:13 AM // 02:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by B Ephekt

Semantics, whatever. I don't consider it a nerf since most people use "nerf" in the context of making things worse. The AOE nerf fixed AI problems, so it was an improvement in my opinion.

Naming something positive, doesnt neccessarily means it is going to effect postively. for professions that use meele damage, or projectiles like arrow ( in ur case, both as an MM ) for Rangers, warriors, its all fine, A foe can do this or that, but they cant go away. They wil get hit when they are hit

Hence, to certain professions that deal with foes who STAND in certain area, it affects badly. Hence, considered a nerf.

Quote:

Originally Posted by B Ephekt

I don’t know where you’re basing that it’s “not realistic” on, but I do agree that MMs were overpowered. (And yes, I do play MM pretty regularly.)

By non realistic, what i wanted to say was, an MM can pull through a mission on his/her own without any one's help, beside the fact that, he/she needs a few deaths to begin with.
Once he had few minnions, he nearly was unstoppable, just like you said too

Quote:

Originally Posted by B Ephekt

I didn’t ask you why you were on this forum… I asked why you kept posting elementalist crap in the MM thread. Sorry, but I didn’t see a context for any of your posts in here, aside the “well my ele used to be able to click a button and kill things, but now it's slightly harder” stuff.

But this is way off topic, so I'll stop now...[/QUOTE]
I would have agreed to you about the *elementalist crap* if there was any other example which could be used as a similie. In this case, for Guildwars, there has never been a bigger affect because of an Update than the one that specific profession had. I could consider MM cap next to the update eles considered in past. IF i had any example, that is, if necros have had seen any nerf in past which could hurt an attribute line by such extent, i would have used those examples.
In conclusion, when you have no examples available in terms to relate this specific update with past within this profession's history, you have to broaden your views and look at the bigger picture to find similar situations, HENCE, the *ELE CRAP* was mentioned.

Evilsod · Apr 30, 2006, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by B Ephekt

I don’t know where you’re basing that it’s “not realistic” on, but I do agree that MMs were overpowered. (And yes, I do play MM pretty regularly.)

Overpowered where... people go on about how they needed to be toned down because they could solo areas. We're talking about areas full of shitty low levels enemies. The highest level area i've heard of soloing is Thirsty River, where the enemies are a similar level to us. How many times have you heard of the MM that solo'ed Hells Precipice and Abaddons Mouth? Or of course managed to yield an army powerful enough to overrun FoW and UW alone?

True after going with a B/P team in FoW who all went back to the forge, me (order necro) and the MM went and cleared the beach together, he summoned minions, i helped heal them. Is this overpowered? Not even close, an entire build devoted to clearing a place, its called FARMING when you do it solo.
Are the solo Spider FoW warrior or solo Forest FoW ranger build overpowered simply because it could solo an area? So why the hell do you consider MMs to be overpowered for the same reason?

B Ephekt · Apr 30, 2006, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Overpowered where... people go on about how they needed to be toned down because they could solo areas. We're talking about areas full of shitty low levels enemies. The highest level area i've heard of soloing is Thirsty River, where the enemies are a similar level to us. How many times have you heard of the MM that solo'ed Hells Precipice and Abaddons Mouth? Or of course managed to yield an army powerful enough to overrun FoW and UW alone?

I don't think you read my post. I never mention soloing as a reason for MMs being overpowered, did I? gg

But to answer your questions, most missions in Prohpecies could easily be dominated by a good MM, to the point of reducing the skill required from other players to almost nil. Iron mines, Ice Caves, THK… these are all relatively “high level” missions that were made extremely easy by a good MM. Granted, it was fun to completely take over a mission and make your tanks useless, but it was overpowering.

Now let’s think about SF farming and B/P teams… I can understand why ANet “nerfed” MMs. I believe that Anet wants farming to require skill rather than the some cookie cutter build found on the internet.

Quote:

So why the hell do you consider MMs to be overpowered for the same reason?

I can’t answer that since you decided to put words in my mouth, but I did explain why I thought they were over powered. Honesty though, I could care less if you agree or why you don’t.

Samueldg · May 01, 2006, 04:46 AM // 04:46

Ive gotten through quite a bit ( all the city stuff and the kurzick areas ) so far with a MM and 7 henchies...

with the mob spacing its not hard to carry 6+ fiends from one to the other.. ..

im spending more time summoning instead of upkeep and with an earth ele henchie the wards do a good job protecting me while im spaming henchies..

yes veritas pretty much sucks at this point but you are still a powerful build with minions and fiends... ( with the cost of minions to 15 now you get a LOT of ene from them dieing and blocking for the fiends.. ref soulreaping 9-11.. thats a good thing)

get cha · May 30, 2006, 10:54 AM // 10:54

I think ANET is trying to make assassins actually wanted in parties. Or to bring us down to the warrior's level. You guys decide

unholy guardian · May 30, 2006, 11:00 AM // 11:00

dude.. mm is still great. Almost everything drops a corpse is factions, without the cap you could probably have like 100 minions lol, espcially in these challange missions

Xenophon Ualtar · May 30, 2006, 02:13 PM // 14:13

MM is still a viable stratagy. Just now it takes , dare I say it, more skill to do. IMHO it doesn't take great amounts ok skill to be able to raise 15+ minions and wander around killing stuff. However, it takes more skill and thought to get 10 minions and keep them alive.

xenoranger · May 30, 2006, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenophon Ualtar

MM is still a viable stratagy. Just now it takes , dare I say it, more skill to do. IMHO it doesn't take great amounts ok skill to be able to raise 15+ minions and wander around killing stuff. However, it takes more skill and thought to get 10 minions and keep them alive.

No joke.
10 Minions (or 9 + 1) are difficult to keep alive. But if you can do it, it's sweet to see the numbers fly as they kill. Also, remember that you can use Golem as a tank. Golems are great for PvE, but in PvP and AB, becareful for people like me who just want to steal yours =p

Nivrax Deathbringer · May 30, 2006, 07:48 PM // 19:48

I don`t know, why most people think its a nerf (weakening). MM is now IMO even more powerful. Look at my Self-sufficent MM build to see what I`m talking about. With AotL + Blood Rnewal you can spam BotM (that heal ALL minions) and never run out of health. And if you REALLY want Flesh Golem, just take it and 9 Vamps. I`m replacing my minions rarely (they are nearly industractible with that healing), the only thing destroying them in large number are AoE spells and explosions from Afflicted.

xenoranger · May 30, 2006, 07:57 PM // 19:57

I second...

Minions are much more powerful. They can't be zerged like before, but they do a great job on keeping them useful. Infact, Cantha has corpses all over the place. I have yet to see a location where you can't use minions.