Curse

Eaimirth Etaivella · May 20, 2006, 06:55 AM // 06:55

I'm not saying it is a bad skill; I never said it is a bad skill. I'm saying it is in need of another buff to make it on par with other skills that already exist.

Themis · May 20, 2006, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Sorry, it took me sooo long to answer (got lost in Jade sea

)...

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr

This is strictly for HA (my MoR/p.leak build is still my favourite for GvG)

Right. Not recommended in GvG, 'cause depending on a spirit compromises teams' agility.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr

but if I was using MoR + Spirit of Failure + Distortion then the rest of e-denial skills, can anyone think what attributes might look like. Remember I need high fast casting (at least 11) to use MoR effectively.
14 domination
12 fast casting
9 inspire
5 illusion ?? -- that was a complete guess I dunno if its too many points.
Any idea ??

Distortion levels are at 3, 8 and 13 illusion, making you lose respectively 3,2 and 1 energy/hit.

Alternative configuration (to the one you stated), is :
FC 11 (+1)
Illusion 8 (+1)
Dom 14 (mask+3)
Inspi 10 (+1)

this makes your gain 1 more energy/hit from SpiritOfFailure and lose one less from Distortion. But you lower 1 lvl to FC (not a big deal, even for MoR).

fatboyslimerr · May 20, 2006, 10:42 AM // 10:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Themis

Sorry, it took me sooo long to answer (got lost in Jade sea

)...

Right. Not recommended in GvG, 'cause depending on a spirit compromises teams' agility. -- Spirit ???, which spirit, do you mean spirit of failure ?

Distortion levels are at 3, 8 and 13 illusion, making you lose respectively 3,2 and 1 energy/hit.

Alternative configuration (to the one you stated), is :
FC 11 (+1)
Illusion 8 (+1)
Dom 14 (mask+3)
Inspi 10 (+1)

this makes your gain 1 more energy/hit from SpiritOfFailure and lose one less from Distortion. But you lower 1 lvl to FC (not a big deal, even for MoR).

That was just some crappie HA build I was thinking of that would be good to put up a decent fight with a warrior (or at least a decent defense against one). What you on about spirits for when I mentioned MoR/P.leak. I now actually offically think MoR/p.leak (and energy management) is the best skill combo known to man, in my opinion (don't flame because you think its shit, its probably just because you can't use it and you keep running out of energy).

If they made MoR cost 5 energy it wouldn't make that much difference to me because I posted earlier that energy really isn't a problem although you think it would be. As long as I can keep up MoR constantly, then drain enchant and e-tap + shame (if pimped out recharges) are plenty to keep my energy pretty high.

As for the statement MoR isn't being used by the top guilds, I would say that non of their mesmers have found a liking to it or found a good way of using it to benefit their team etc etc. The build I use it in is pure e-denial where as most top guilds mesmers have e-denial + things like blackout and gale (saw iB's mesmer using a great blackout gale combo). I dunno if they're thought of one mesmer able to deny 2 monks at once. Although as we've mentioned earlier diversion and blackout aren't that great for this build and most top guilds prefer using these skills.

Eaimirth, how can you compare 2 totally different skills which have 2 totally different uses. And since this is the mesmer forum and you've even admitted that SQ is crap for a mesmer, and since there's no ranger/mesmer build which would greatly benefit from SQ while still doing the same job as a mesmer (e-denial) why do you insist on continuing. If you want to compare for example an interrupter ranger vs an interrupter mesmer using SQ and MoR respectively then we might have a serious conversion but otherwise, no thanks.

Eaimirth Etaivella · May 20, 2006, 01:19 PM // 13:19

I sence a challange; (the build my guild used with that combo was for healing spring/vengence spam in hoh, but whatever)

I will formulate a build.

fatboyslimerr · May 20, 2006, 02:10 PM // 14:10

SQ vs MoR guild face off ??
Bit like a dance off with B-Boys and hip hop tunes except using arrows and mind domination

Eaimirth Etaivella · May 20, 2006, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Ugh; not really a fan of modern music. But hey its not my analagy =p

Still working on the build; going to be hard to top my healing spring+vengence build...man it totally rocked hoh with springs going off every 7 seconds and vengence comming every 14.

Of course I'm heavily going for distracting shot spam; yet still wondering how energy management is going to work out.

Themis · May 20, 2006, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr

Spirit ???, which spirit, do you mean spirit of failure

No, sorry for not being clear, it was about Greater Conflagration + Mantra of flame combination : in GvG it's not worth trying it, it doesn't work well (because ov agility etc). It works fine in HA.
Spirit of failure is (almost) essential when using Distortion.

fatboyslimerr · May 20, 2006, 05:15 PM // 17:15

lol ok I get ya now. I think spirit of failure is great energy management (in GvG) if your team also has a necro hex spammer so it isn't easily removed. You can cast MoR and quickly cast it on 2/3 warriors (recharge is now 5 seconds) then get down to some serious energy denial

If you also combine MoR/Spirit of Failure with something like blurred vision or reckless haste (team mate necro or ele using these skills) on 2 or 3 warriors then you'll never have any energy problems ever again meaning sweet p.leaking every 10 seconds without worrying about energy.

Does anyone know if 20% chance for half spell recharge mods stack with MoR meaning p.leak would have a 5 second recharge, shame would have 7.5 second etc etc. You can imagine the awesomeness on whatever skill you get that 20% chance on.

(Also this is quite a fun post, especially with eaimirth generally disagreeing with anything anyone says, even modern music)

Eaimirth Etaivella · May 20, 2006, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Yes they stack.
Same for all weapon+stance scenarios.

IE if you have restore life @ 4 seconds with FC; and have a 40% chance for half casting time via weapons; there is a 40% chance for a 2 second ressurect.

fatboyslimerr · May 20, 2006, 10:44 PM // 22:44

did I say about casting times lol. I was on about RECHARGE and MoR stacking. Dunno why you went on about restore life 40% blah blah blah for ??
I use willcrusher with 20% chance of halving Domination spells recharge. Does this stack with MoR ???? Example, Shame (+MoR) recharge is 15 seconds + willcrusher recharge mod = 7.5 seconds. Thank you very much.

I seriously doubt they do stack because that could be some serious spell spammin' otherwise. Its hard to test this also due to only 20% getting the mod and its hard to notice when ur focusing on constant power leakage.

Themis · May 20, 2006, 11:03 PM // 23:03

I'm almost sure they do stack. I'll try and test it as soon as possible. And if you have the chance (or the gold needed) to buy a 20% recharge wand AND a 20% recharge chakram, well... you have a 40% chance of halving Domination skill recharge

(they both exist at the Factions end-of-game merchants).

No, i don't think they could allow any continuous spamming. Main problem will rather be energy management...

fatboyslimerr · May 20, 2006, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Awwww but I like my willcrusher soo much, how could I possibly switch to a wand and a chakram

You underestimate Drain Enchant + E-Tap energy gain with their new pimped recharges, Energy really isn't a problem. If it is stop using MoR temporarily.

Themis · May 20, 2006, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Me too i like my Willcrusher

But when it comes to 40% recharge, i (sometimes) decide to switch temporarily. Hoping that nobody printscreens me !!!

lol

Well, what i meant is that with half the spells recharging at 25% of time, while the other half is at 50%... it's even harder. Half of skills activated MUST be energy management.

Dragannia · May 21, 2006, 01:16 AM // 01:16

Actually, 20% and 20% stacks to 36%.

fatboyslimerr · May 21, 2006, 08:35 AM // 08:35

How'd you figure that out Dragannia, I'm not saying your wrong because I dunno but I'd be interested to know how it works.

I wouldn't be seen dead with a wand and a chakram, if I can't use my willcrusher I might as well retire from mesmering. (call me silly but hey I like to look like I might be able to control someones mind with a big scary stick) !!

Themis · May 21, 2006, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Thanks for correcting me, Dragannia. I'll try to be more precice :

In fact there are two possible stackings :

1. stack chances to get half recharge times
2. stack recharge bonuses

Assume you have MoR on, and a 20% mod :

In case 1 : no benefit (100% already due to MoR)
In case 2 : 20% of spells recharge 25% faster, 80% of them recharge 50% faster.

Assume you have two mods of 20% recharge :

In case 1 : 36% chances to get half recharge
In case 2 : 4% of spells have 25% recharge, 32% have half recharge, rest are normal.

Assume you have MoR on plus two mods of 20% recharge :

Case 1 : no benefit (100% already due to MoR)
Case 2 : 4% have 12,5% recharge, 32% have 25% recharge, rest have half recharge.

I bet it's case 2 that should reflect reality.

What if... · May 21, 2006, 08:45 AM // 08:45

Wow, I wasn't expecting the thread to last this long, but I'm enjoying reading all your comments and the discussion in general (I'm also enjoying Crispy's Aegis + MoR build

). Keep it up everyone.

fatboyslimerr · May 21, 2006, 08:47 AM // 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Themis

Thanks for correcting me, Dragannia. I'll try to be more precice :

Assume you have MoR on, and a 20% mod :

In case 1 : no benefit (100% already due to MoR)
In case 2 : 20% of spells recharge 25% faster, 80% of them recharge 50% faster.

I bet it's case 2 that should reflect reality.

Just a tad confused by this. Are you saying the mod is for a 25% faster recharge because I thought willcrusher had a 50% faster recharge do dar. Even if it is 25%, how do you get to 80% recharge 50% faster ??

Themis · May 21, 2006, 09:37 AM // 09:37

sorry, i meant 25% of the initial recharge time (75% faster). I should pay more attention while writing...

As for the 80% left, it's due to MoR, in this example.

fatboyslimerr · May 21, 2006, 01:17 PM // 13:17

So you wanna explain more clearly. Say I use Mantra of Recovery, and I've got 20% wand and 20% chakram. Don't these chakrams offer half recharge time. So say we use shame and it triggers MoR, recharge is now 15 seconds, then mod gets triggered thats 7/8 seconds recharge. So 40% chance for an 88% faster recharge. I think you get to 88% by working out 8 seconds is about 10 and shames original recharge is 30 its about 1/3 or 33.33% add that to 50% from MoR = 88% - roughly 80% -- is that right ??