Curse

Bleaked · May 20, 2006, 07:46 AM // 07:46

First thread in a while, be gentle

OK, so I've been playing around with a certain combo I've had my eye on
since FPE - Auspicious Incantation/Inspired Enchantment. 15+ total Energy every 35s for an enchant remove - decent right? Allowable by the fact that IE doesn't respond to the increase in cooldown time that's one of AI's major drawbacks. Which seems kinda wrong (Should 0+30=30, not 0?)

Turns out the spell is even funkier than that. I tried adding in Mantra of Recovery {E} to assauge the still long recast on AI, but it has no effect - still takes 35s to recharge after, although it should be reduced to ~17.5s by MoR...

And for the record, the combo series, specifically, was, at 12/12 for both attribs, AI(-5ene) + IE(-10+13, +18 more when AI triggers) + MoR(-10 ene) = 6 energy total, a productive way to keep MoR up with 12 possible attribs still available for another bunch of skills with some positive ene left over. MoR was also intended to allow use for AI/IE every 20s, identical to its own cooldown time, with AI ready at aforementioned 17.5, so it can be cast in advance. But it doesn't work =/ Try it for yourself...

Anyways, my question is - do you think ANet should fix these things? Or should they just fix one? After all, without a complex use like this to define such a complex skill, AI is a pretty useless. But if they "fix" the no-recharge/no-ill-effect problem, AI becomes useless again.

Personally, I just hope ANet fixes it soon, one way or another. I wanna know for sure whether or not my little brainchild is a stillborn or the monster I wish it to be

Also, feel free to post thoughts for the skill combo itself. i.e. blinding praise, denunciations of hatred, questions, ideas to improve...

fatboyslimerr · May 20, 2006, 12:24 PM // 12:24

I imagine AI might be an idea for necro or elemental using 15-25 enery cost spells. Say you used suffering (curses hex) which costs 15 energy, AI would cause you to gain 37 energy - 5 for cost of AI = 32 energy which is pretty damned good. Although that means a long recharge, surely 30 energy every 30 seconds or more is worth it. But wait till you check this beauty out. Say you cast maelstom, after AI, that would gave you... wait for it... 62 energy - 5 for AI = 57. Say you have 70 energy and you cast AI then maelstom, you have 40 energy left, but you will gain 62 which is absolutely loads.

A more practical use for this skill would be using it with drain enchantment.
AI + Drain Enchantment = 15 energy cost but say drain enchantment gives you 19 energy if you drain an enchantment, you will lose 15 from using AI and DE but gain 19 +25 = 46

This skill could therefore be extremely affective and will recharge in 10 seconds

- possibly better than using it with inspired enchantment.

Just thrown some ideas at ya. (I like the AI+DE idea though and I might even use it some time). It could be great for a monk.

Sab · May 20, 2006, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Psst...Auspicious Incantation + Arcane Echo = free echo with no recharge drawbacks

(you heard it here first

)

Eaimirth Etaivella · May 20, 2006, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Same thing for inspired's; but I like this better...

fatboyslimerr · May 20, 2006, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Luxa, fantastic idea plus neither are elite so you can quite happily use AI and arcane echo on a rather costly elite and use it twice

. Also AI could possibly be in the only conjure nightmare build lol. You wouldn't have to worry about energy but long recharge of AI (equal to energy cost - 25 seconds) might be a problem.

Eaimirth Etaivella · May 20, 2006, 02:55 PM // 14:55

I thought of a build using conjure nightmare but then reconsidered when I found Mantra of Persistence rank 16+phantom pain+illusion of pain+random cover hex infinitely more powerful. 20seconds of 10 degen=400damage+deepwound after 20seconds=usallly dead opponent.

I tried the same thing with nightmare; but encountered energy problems.

Bleaked · May 20, 2006, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Slimer, I like the way you think but, your math is a little off: to cast a spell with AI, you also need to subtract the cost of the spell itself. So, -5 for AI, -15 for Suffering: + 37, which puts you at a balance of +17 energy total, not quite as much.

As for AI+DE, I thought of that too. But AI adds 30s to DE's cooldown, making it 25+30, or 55s >< Not sexy, especially considering net gain is -5 + -10 + 18 + 20 = 23. Which you could probably roughly do with casting DE alone (20-10+20-10 = 20 net gain over 50s), and you'd still have a spare skill slot left.

So, in conclusion, AI really isn't worth it in a lot of these applications...with perhaps the exception that I've derived in my last post. Admittedly, with spells with already short cooldowns that you only expect to use every 30s or so, AI might be worthwhile, but I've been trying to focus on mesmer-only applications. After all, its OUR skill ><

And as a quick note on degen....IoR+Conjure Phantasm = happy. Gotta be my fave Ill combo to date.

Oh, and yes, kudos on the Echo app, it looks solid.

fatboyslimerr · May 20, 2006, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Eaimirth, if using illusion of pain, you'd better be careful because when it ends, if foe is still alive, their in for one hell of a heal on your behalf, which is why I don't think its that great. I also agree with bleaked, Phantasm+IoR is a great combo but I'd throw phantom pain in there too just to get -10 degen (as well as mantra of persistance). Must be the best single target degen. If they remove hex, they get deep wounded, if they attack they take damage.

Bleaked, I wonder if the AI+DE combo might benefit from MoR. As in the +30 seconds recharge, total of 55 seconds would recharge 50% faster because of MoR. Meaning 27 recharge which is what it is normally, roughly. But its such a potentially great enemy gain combo, it should be thought about in a bit more I reckon, and i'll be testing it later hopefully.

Eaimirth Etaivella · May 20, 2006, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Well I think of it as a RA build;
Little hex removal

But the cool part is...
Illusion of Pain and Phantom Pain both last 10(x2) seconds.
Thus (7+3 {as we are using inspiration magic due to degen does not stack above 10 and we get a more powerful persistence)) degeneration for 10x2 seconds or 400 damage.

In addition we will be casting Phantom Pain first (which I admit I would like not to, but in this case we do) so that it triggers deep wound while it leaves.

Thus just before Ipain triggers Ppain triggers giving that; 400+deepwound effect. This *should* kill the target.

However if it does not kill them for some awkward reason; there are the "perks" that we have for running high inspiration magic. First off; Ipain degen is only 7; netting only 140 heal for the 280 damage that it caused. However this 140 heal is reduced by deepwound (yay) for 140x.8 or 112 instead. So we still net a 280-112 net damage for the spell or 168 damage. This nets out for 16.8 damage per energy point; which isn't as good as flare but it still isn't 0 either.

I have looked deep into this spell and I {hopefully =p} know what I'm doing. Healing of course throws this combo into hell however -.- RA only =/

Hella Good · May 20, 2006, 08:34 PM // 20:34

I am so confused by AI, I haven't even bothered trying it out. What's that thing about AI + echo again?

Eaimirth Etaivella · May 20, 2006, 08:45 PM // 20:45

AI increases the skill that was "sac"ed for its duration by a whole bunch, but since echo has a "fixed" recharge this is negated.

Same is true for
Aracane echo
Echo
Inspired Enchantment
Inspired hex
The clones of the two above skills
Some that I may have overlooked.

fatboyslimerr · May 20, 2006, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Hella it basically means you get free arcane echo, it doesn't cost any energy.
Cast AI + Arcane Echo then echoable skill/spell. -5e for AI - 15e for Arcane Echo but you gain 37e but arcane echo has an additional 15 second recharge (now 45 seconds). Net gain of 17 energy. I don't think this combo would work with Echo {E} though since you'd only gain 12/13 energy.

Themis · May 20, 2006, 11:41 PM // 23:41

It's all true about this combination, but, in my opinion, it is counter-productive for a Mesmer.

As a Mesmer i need to control casting, especially casting times. All spells have FIXED post-activation delays (about half a second). The more skills you use, the more these delays are stacked. And i have noticed that Echoing AI (or echoing anything, for that matter) slows down greatly overall reaction times. And i don't like that. I don't care about getting a free spell, if it comes to use it out of time...

Renegade ++RIP++ · May 21, 2006, 08:00 AM // 08:00

doesn't blackout or psychic distraction neuter this recharge?

meaning you use auspiceous incantantion on an expensive skill (25 energy) then use a blackout or a psychic distraction and 8 secs later you can reuse your auspiceous incantation and your expesnive skill. Or am i wrong in this?

Hella Good · May 21, 2006, 08:07 AM // 08:07

If it really does that, it's probably an unintended glitch that is going to be fixed. Are you sure it works like that?

fatboyslimerr · May 21, 2006, 08:31 AM // 08:31

I once thought that blackout recharged all your recharing skills when your skills got disabled. IT DOESN'T.

Themis, using AI+Arcane Echo with fast casting would be similar to a low FC mesmer. Not the end of the world, just not to your style. It would sucks about the +30 second recharge but I'm sure this combo could be used with MoR. Still I'm not convinced sacrificing 30 seconds on the recharge just to get a slight energy gain + an echoed skill is a good plan. I think AI would best be used with something like inspired enchantment/revealed enchantment because I wonder how the +30 second seconds affect these spells and if it does so it now has 50 second recharge. Not the end of the world because you don't exactly need to spam these skills and the energy gain would be pretty nice.

Renegade ++RIP++ · May 21, 2006, 08:56 AM // 08:56

well never tried it out, but it would seem quite intentional seeing that it does neuter rechargetimes.

Themis · May 21, 2006, 09:18 AM // 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr

I once thought that blackout recharged all your recharing skills when your skills got disabled. IT DOESN'T.

No, it doesn't, but Blackout doesn't stop skills' recharging. That is, if a spell needs 6 seconds recharge and you cast it immediately before Blackout, it will be ready to cast when you exit BO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr

Themis, using AI+Arcane Echo with fast casting would be similar to a low FC mesmer.

Exactly, i'm a FC-addict

Good point though for inpired-anything spells. But then, if it comes srictly to energy management :
if you cast AI before an 5-energy spell, you gain... just 4 energy from AI,
and if you cast it before a 10-cost one, you get 13 energy...

... every 35 seconds ? For 10-cost spells, it's just as good as eTap.

No, in fact i think this spell is good only for spells/stances which recharge faster than the end of their effects (and are expensive) : Panik, perhaps ? (EDIT: it works with spells only, doesn't fir Mantra of Persistence).

fatboyslimerr · May 21, 2006, 10:21 AM // 10:21

hmmmm AI Panic

Yeh I like FC and my favourite MoR/p.leak has 14 fast casting

I can out interrupt anyone muhahahaha, except perhaps hella good and his PD build.

Renegade ++RIP++ · May 21, 2006, 11:06 AM // 11:06

i can't interrupt squatt... except when i'm really watching for it then i can consistently get 2 sec ones... but faster hell no