Curse

ChaoticCoyote · Jun 12, 2006, 08:00 PM // 20:00

For the most part, I play an archer/beastmaster with a penchant for interrupts. I'm happy with the build, which seems to do well in just about any situation.

My attributes at the moment, having finished Tyria and almost done with Cantha:

Beast Mastery 12
Expertise 9
Marksmanship 15

My usual skill set is:

Barrage (sometimes Broad Head Arrow)
Hunter's Shot
Savage Shot
Distracting Shot
Favorable Winds
Comfort Animal
Charm Animal
(last slot changes between Throw Dirt/Cap Signet/Elemental skill)

My current favorite bows, all found and modified with components salvaged from other bows:

Sundering Celestial Longbow of Defense
Piercing Damage: 14-28 (req. 8 Marksmanship)
Damage +15% (while health is above 50%)
Armor +5
Armor Penetration +20% (Chance 20%)

Fiery Longbow of Marksmanship
Fire Damage: 15-28 (req. 9 Marksmanship)
Damage +15% (while health is above 50%)
Marksmanship +1 (Chance +19%)

Shocking Flatbow of Marksmanship
Lightning Damage: 15-28 (req. 9 Marksmanship)
Damage +15% (while health is above 50%)
Marksmanship +1 (Chance +20%)

Icy Longbow of Defense
Cold Damage: 15-28 (req. 8 Marksmanship)
Damage +15% (while health is above 50%)
Armor +5

I also have Elswyth's Recurve Bow and Stinger in storage.

I'm not very fond of Vampiric Bows (I just don't like the degen), and don't have a need for Zealous. I hear some people claim that Sundering is no good, but in my tests, the Sundering bow does more average damage than the others (on targets with neutral elemental resistance).

So... any suggestions or opinions?

Maria The Princess · Jun 12, 2006, 08:39 PM // 20:39

thats a basic barrage/pet build you got there my friend. nothing special

this build is used by 90% of all rangers everywhere. and the bow set is also bretty much the basic bows you need. just so you know, vamp bow are dealing more damage and its a good idea to have a zealot bow if you ever run out of energy in a bad time.

now the mistake you are making is putting points in beast mastery. the thing with petts is thatr if you are not cariying pet attaks the damage is too small and the pet becomes pretty much a meat shield for you. now, with low or high BM, the armor and hit life points of you pet remain the same. why dont you put points in wilderness survival and grab trall enguent which is a great surviving skill, and dump a few more points in expertise, becuase its just such a great attribute you should always have it at 10 or more

and whats with 15 in marksmnaship?....... if you are a barrager you should have it at 16 for maximum damage

ChaoticCoyote · Jun 12, 2006, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria The Princess

thats a basic barrage/pet build you got there my friend. nothing special

Didn't think it was anything spectacular. The build works well, though I found it myself before reading any guides. I sometimes run a trapper build (dropping the pet skills and adding points into Wilderness Survival), but the build above "just works" with minor changes for different situations.

For example, my secondary is Elementalist, so I sometimes move points into Fire/Water/Air to use the "Conjure" enhancements with my elemental bows.

I also sometimes run with Poison Arrow instead of Barrage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria The Princess

Vamp bow are dealing more damage and its a good idea to have a zealot bow if you ever run out of energy in a bad time.

I've tried Vamp bows and think they're overrated. You don't always have multiple targets to Barrage with Vampire arrows, and some monster block/evade. I prefer to stay away from degen, period.

I rarely run out of energy, and prefer to keep my regen up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria The Princess

now the mistake you are making is putting points in beast mastery. the thing with petts is thatr if you are not cariying pet attaks the damage is too small and the pet becomes pretty much a meat shield for you. now, with low or high BM, the armor and hit life points of you pet remain the same. why dont you put points in wilderness survival and grab trall enguent which is a great surviving skill, and dump a few more points in expertise, becuase its just such a great attribute you should always have it at 10 or more

Expertise at 10 does nothing more for me than Expertise at 9. At 9, I pay 3 for a 5 energy spell and 6 for a 10 energy skill. At 10, it's exactly the same. So to get a good break, I'd need to bump Expertise to 13, and I don't need to. I rarely run out of energy right now (I wear Druid's set).

As for the pet: Fluffy (A Dune Lizard, BTW) is a blocker and enemy-grouper, and he does good damage all on his own. I do sometimes carry a few pet attacks (including a nice one that heals me every time he bites).

I partner most of the time with an excellent monk (played by my daughter), or I take a couple of healer henchies. Given that I rarely die in PvE, I don;t find Troll Unguent all that useful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria The Princess

and whats with 15 in marksmnaship?....... if you are a barrager you should have it at 16 for maximum damage

The difference between 15 and 16 is negligible, and those 20 points I save make a big difference in other attributes.

SparhawkJC · Jun 13, 2006, 01:23 PM // 13:23

Vamp bows are in no way overrated, if anything Sundering is the most overrated mod in Guild Wars. If you're going for DPS which is by the way the only reason for going with either Vampiric or Sundering (outside of E-Peen size), Vamp does at least 4 times the amount of damage of sundering. This is backed up by extensive testing done by the Guru community and if this is applied with Barrage hitting 6 targets the difference becomes even greater. Zealous has already been shown to have a negative gain unless you are using Barrage, I would much rather be using a Vamp bow for pure damage and a poison one as my off set.

If you're going to put that many points into Beast Mastery you might as well give being a Beastmaster a try. There aren't too many skill synergies between Beast Mastery and Marksmanship as such Rangers will either specialize in one or the other. As such, going the pure beastmaster route would give you more bang for the buck regarding your attribute investments. In fact you can take all those points in marksmanship and place them into beastmastery and expertise and switch your bow for a 15 energy staff. Your pet will be doing more damage with the easily spammed pet skills than you would be as a single barrager. A couple pets skills that no beastmaster should go without are Brutal Strike (spammable final thrust), disrupting lunge (spammable interrupt), and Predator's Pounce (cheap extra damage while healing your pet at the same time). On top of that you can choose between a number of awesome BM elites like Heal as One (no need to spec in WS for self heal), Enraged Lunge (an extra 20 damage for cheap cost with only Enraged Lunge recharging with the possibility of adding as much as 80 extra damage with 3 other recharging pet skills), and Ferocious Strike (nice extra damage and you'll be getting 10 energy back at 16 BM).

The reason your build works at the moment is that you've yet to bring it into any high level areas. Once you get farther into the game and into the Elite Missions your monks will be pushed to the limit and as such every little bit of self healing helps to keep you alive and relieves some of the burden on your monks. Also as a ranger you should definitely carry a rez of some kind. Generally you'll be one of the last to die and as such you should pack at least a Rez sig to save a monk and run away before suffering a team wipe.

In short you've got a basic B/P build albeit with some glaring flaws in skill choices and attribute placement. Also on your bow choices you should not be bringing all Longbows and Flatbows. At most you only need one longrange bow for pulling, a Recurve bow for general use, and a shortbow for close combat. I generally put an elemental string on my longbow, a poison string on my recurve, and a vamp string on my shortbow with all fortitude mods. In general defense will mitigate more damage in the long run. However as a ranger I generally don't get hit by physical damage and get hurt more by armor ignoring spells and degen, both of which fortitude protects better against than defense. By the way, marksmanship grips are worthless.

ChaoticCoyote · Jun 13, 2006, 03:13 PM // 15:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by SparhawkJC

Vamp bows are in no way overrated, if anything Sundering is the most overrated mod in Guild Wars. If you're going for DPS which is by the way the only reason for going with either Vampiric or Sundering (outside of E-Peen size), Vamp does at least 4 times the amount of damage of sundering. This is backed up by extensive testing done by the Guru community and if this is applied with Barrage hitting 6 targets the difference becomes even greater. Zealous has already been shown to have a negative gain unless you are using Barrage, I would much rather be using a Vamp bow for pure damage and a poison one as my off set.

I often run a poisoner build, particularly when I'm in a situation where mobs are rare. Barrage is useless when the monsters don't make nice tidy groups...

I'm having better success with the Sundering bow than with Vampiric (was using Elswyth's) . I have plenty of salvaged strings to switch back and forth, but for now, I'll stay with my main bow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SparhawkJC

The reason your build works at the moment is that you've yet to bring it into any high level areas.

You proceed from a false assumption.

I have finished the Titan missions and travelled Fissure of Woe and Sorrows Furnace. Or do you not consider those "high level" areas?

The character has about 300 hours on it, with every Ranger skill and 12 elites. Got screen shots to prove it, if you don't believe my build can do damned good in such places. And no, I'm not just kiting along. A good elemental barrage can be a nasty in places like the Ring of Fire...

Of course, I adjust the build slightly for circumstances; I carry Conjure Flame in some areas, for example, which makes my firebow do considerably more damage than any vampiric. The trick is knowing which elemental damage is best.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SparhawkJC

By the way, marksmanship grips are worthless.

I've come to that conclusion as well.

SparhawkJC · Jun 13, 2006, 04:48 PM // 16:48

My mistake I thought you were in Cantha. That build will get you through Prophecies fine because of the lack of diversity in monster groups and certain exploits (book, keg, whatever). I don't consider any of Prophecies high level areas after going through the Elite Missions in Factions.

ChaoticCoyote · Jun 13, 2006, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by SparhawkJC

My mistake I thought you were in Cantha. That build will get you through Prophecies fine because of the lack of diversity in monster groups and certain exploits (book, keg, whatever). I don't consider any of Prophecies high level areas after going through the Elite Missions in Factions.

So, in your opinion, the only "high level" areas at the Canthan Elite Missions?

I think quite a few people would disagree, including me.

I've played The Deep a couple of times, and didn;t find it all the profitable or interesting as compared to the high-end areas of Tyria. But to each their own. The point is to have fun, isn't it?

SnipiousMax · Jun 13, 2006, 05:59 PM // 17:59

^ The mob diversity is much greater in factions. That is the point Sparhawk was making. Against said groups this build breaks down. B/P builds only really work well in a specific setting. Without proper support... it's mediocore at best.

ChaoticCoyote · Jun 13, 2006, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

^ The mob diversity is much greater in factions. That is the point Sparhawk was making. Against said groups this build breaks down. B/P builds only really work well in a specific setting. Without proper support... it's mediocore at best.

I finished the Cantha campaign last week. I didn't find it more difficult than doing all of the advanced areas of Prophesies. More annoying due to the grinding, yes -- more difficult, no.

I've done The Deep, which I found annoying and unprofitable; Urgoz's place is next on my list.

Against mixed mobs, I generally find Poison Arrow much more useful than Barrage. Of course, that fails against poison-immunes, but most places have nice fleshy creatures I can sicken...

I've run as a pure Interrupter in PuGs, swapping in Broad Head Arrow and the pet interruption (Disrupting Lunge, I believe).

As it is, I'm experimenting with Expertise at 13 (the next major break point after 9) and Melandru's Shot. Maybe Punishing Shot?

SnipiousMax · Jun 13, 2006, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaoticCoyote

I've run as a pure Interrupter in PuGs, swapping in Broad Head Arrow and the pet interruption (Disrupting Lunge, I believe).

As it is, I'm experimenting with Expertise at 13 (the next major break point after 9) and Melandru's Shot. Maybe Punishing Shot?

I've never been fond of playing 'pure interrupt' in PvE. IMO one or two interrupts has always been more than sufficient in any balanced group. There are always exceptions, but I only ever carry one or two interrupts in most cases.

Melandru's Shot has been on and off my skill bar since I've capped it. It is a great skill against mob's where enchants are common. It allows for a energy heavy skill bar, as long as you can find an enchanted foe.