Curse

Yukito Kunisaki · Jun 12, 2006, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Is it just me or is assassin now [with nerfs] the most unproductive character come late game pve?

[I'm hoping it's just me...]

Earlier on, when 4 hit combos where worth it since you don't die in 2 hits, I used:

Black Lotus Thrust, Horns of the Ox, Falling Spider, Twisting Fangs
if things got to mobby
Black Lotus Thrust, Iron Palm, Falling Spider, Death Blossom
[hex of choice was the nicely spammable siphon speed or parasitic bond]

I had to have these combos to barely kill lvl 15-17 monsters...

Now, come Kaineng mainland, assassins DO NOT HAVE TIME TO DO FOUR SWINGS...

Apparently, PuG or henchies leading the way, the ai knows 3 things...

1, assassins suck balls
2, their easy to kick, like balls
3, they keel over, like well, getting kicked in the balls, easily...

In late game battles [and smart pvp], is it the unfortunate truth that we HAVE to stick to the normal: Lead Attack, Off Hand Dual strike, combos? There's no longer time to hang around for even ONE EXTRA ATTACK... Omfg.

[glad I'm leaving mmorpgs for a while to dive back into fps like DoD and CS 1.6]

This nerfbat is making me sick...

For now, I THINK this may be a worth while build if you can get all the skills for it. Check this...

A/N

16 Dagger Mastery
9 Deadly Arts
9 Shadow Arts
8 Critical Hits

Iron Palm
Falling Spider
Twisting Fangs
Siphon Strength {E}
Critical Eye
Critical Defenses
Plague Touch
Res Signet

Definitely not a soloist, you'll have to rely on your monk's effort to keep you alive as you blast your foes into the dirt. I pray that the Crit Eye, 16 dagger, Siphon Strength, combo generates enough crits for Critical defenses to not suck. though for some odd reason, I doubt it.

The idea is PvE Degeneration on the opening target call. Run like a punk, wait for recharge, and repeat. There is no longer room for error and the tele skills all suck ass now....

Are assassins doomed to the level of total mediocrity?

They have a blend of caster and warrior, but both of the latter does their jobs 10480298349012743x better!

Killmur · Jun 12, 2006, 05:36 AM // 05:36

I hear ya. I gave up on assasins. With just their skills they suck due to energy constrictions. I was messing around in PvP Build Mode and a A/W with axe and criticals can kick ass BUT you end up with wasted energy. Hell with War skills ontop of a Assasin Prime you can make a killer tank but there are not many powerful War based energy guzzling attacks or tactics skills to take advantage of the wasted energy.

"Are assassins doomed to the level of total mediocrity?"

You maybe right. I feel Assasins are the Factions equivalent of the Prohp Ele.

Crim_Vos_Telvannis · Jun 12, 2006, 05:43 AM // 05:43

I've tried, seriously TRIED to play an assassin. I just can't.

Every time I find myself in a fight, I think "Jeez...I could be a warrior, do way more damage, take way less damage, and actually get into groups."

Granted, assassins are basically melee mesmers, not another warrior...but still, I could play a mesmer for basically the same effect, and be able to stand back and not get as completely melee raped so quickly.

If you're fighting a low to no armor enemy, then assassins are actually quite fun. Otherwise, I just play my warrior.

"Are assassins doomed to the level of total mediocrity?"
I think you hit it pretty dead on here. ANet balanced Sins pretty well for PvP, but at the cost of almost all PvE usefulness.

Killmur · Jun 12, 2006, 05:47 AM // 05:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crim_Vos_Telvannis

I've tried, seriously TRIED to play an assassin. I just can't.

Every time I find myself in a fight, I think "Jeez...I could be a warrior, do way more damage, take way less damage, and actually get into groups."

Granted, assassins are basically melee mesmers, not another warrior...but still, I could play a mesmer for basically the same effect, and be able to stand back and not get as completely melee raped so quickly.

If you're fighting a low to no armor enemy, then assassins are actually quite fun. Otherwise, I just play my warrior.

Exactly! I tried to make my R/A go from using a bow to daggers but I found my R/W War Prime can out class a R/A Assasin Prime anyday of the week. Quite saddening considering the daggers are maxed at 7-17 and axe is maxed at 6-28. Hell my W/Mo can outclass a R/A Assasin Prime and a A/X just as well. I find assasins are good early on but yea later into the game they just endup dying alot. I am a certified witness to watching many assasins die later on in Factions.

XvArchonvX · Jun 12, 2006, 05:56 AM // 05:56

Unfortunately I have to agree. My beef with assasins isn't so much their lack of offense, so much as their lack of defense. Almost everytime I join a group that has an assasin in it, the assasin is the first or only person to die. Espcially when fighting the afflicted, it's just a matter of time until a couple soul explosions make assasins drop like flies. They really have become little beyond glass cannons.

I have only played my assasin to a limited extent and have generally used him as a A/R using barrage with sharpen daggers, but still can't help that a ranger with full marks is a lot more useful and does more damage.

In PvP, I can see a ranger having some merit since they really perform best on single targets where they might have the advantage of out damaging the opposition before taking too much damage themselves, but that's about it.

I really hope A-net buffs Assasins somehow soon

/signed

(oh, btw, I found that repeating strike really is best for making a combo last longer when facing tough opposition. Try that if you are still ahving problems running out of attacks before your opponent dies.)

Siren · Jun 12, 2006, 07:33 AM // 07:33

Funny how I can drop most regular targets with my Assassin even faster than a good, solid PvE Warrior can...there is no huge secret to being effective with Assassins, folks.

Like that rubbish about Assassins needing four attack skills? And then also not having enough time to go through Lead, Off-Hand, Dual? That's just absolute garbage right there, because I can easily list half a dozen VIABLE builds right here, right now, that allow an Assassin to bypass a hell of a lot. It just takes careful and strategic build design. You'd be surprised just how much explosive power you can pack into four skills...especially when those four skills aren't all attack skills...like they're just Off-Hands and Dual attacks...what else...

Oh, and I fail to see how someone having only playing their Assassin "to a limited extent" and doing nothing more than playing a wannabe Ranger has any credibility in a discussion about the actual worth of a well-played Assassin, because I am a well-played Assassin, and provided I'm not eating or drinking during combat, I can make a huge difference, because I know what I'm doing, because I've spent more time constructing builds and devising new strategies as they relate to combat flow and target switching. Playing "to a limited extent" will never open up the game like that for you.

Last but certainly not least, what are people smoking here? Skills suck due to energy constrictions? Do people even know what build design is anymore? Not once have I ever run into energy problems once I figured out my Assassin's capabilities. They have amazing energy management, and the only reason 15E skills look scary to someone is because they have no fecking idea how to build their character so that they'll have a constant stream of energy coming in.

~Siren

fallot · Jun 12, 2006, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

tele skills all suck ass now....

Er.. why now ? The only change I recall is the inability to teleport greater than radar distance (something you can only do by cancelling AoD) and a slight increase in AoD recharge. Everything else is the same.

Killmur · Jun 12, 2006, 07:58 AM // 07:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siren

Funny how I can drop most regular targets with my Assassin even faster than a good, solid PvE Warrior can...there is no huge secret to being effective with Assassins, folks.

Like that rubbish about Assassins needing four attack skills? And then also not having enough time to go through Lead, Off-Hand, Dual? That's just absolute garbage right there, because I can easily list half a dozen VIABLE builds right here, right now, that allow an Assassin to bypass a hell of a lot. It just takes careful and strategic build design. You'd be surprised just how much explosive power you can pack into four skills...especially when those four skills aren't all attack skills...like they're just Off-Hands and Dual attacks...what else...

Oh, and I fail to see how someone having only playing their Assassin "to a limited extent" and doing nothing more than playing a wannabe Ranger has any credibility in a discussion about the actual worth of a well-played Assassin, because I am a well-played Assassin, and provided I'm not eating or drinking during combat, I can make a huge difference, because I know what I'm doing, because I've spent more time constructing builds and devising new strategies as they relate to combat flow and target switching. Playing "to a limited extent" will never open up the game like that for you.

Last but certainly not least, what are people smoking here? Skills suck due to energy constrictions? Do people even know what build design is anymore? Not once have I ever run into energy problems once I figured out my Assassin's capabilities. They have amazing energy management, and the only reason 15E skills look scary to someone is because they have no fecking idea how to build their character so that they'll have a constant stream of energy coming in.

~Siren

Nice assumption that I am a wannabe ranger and that I played a limited bit of assasin. I have three rangers. I am rather good with the Ranger class. I have also played assasin since I got Factions 2 days after it came out. I have played GW for nearly 6 months. Do not assume that someone like me is limited and a wannabe. I know how to play this game and I know how to make builds. I actually have gotten rather good with creating builds that suit me. As for assasin I do not like dealing with the energy issues or the skills. I have no hatred towards assasins whatsoever. I just have a few problems with the energy and slight armor issue.

Siren: Did you play assasin alot during FPE? I have a hunch that might be why you are so good with assasin. I never really got into the whole FPE myself.

Sidenote: I think the other reason besides energy and armor is that I treated assasin like it was a Mesmer or Monk class. I could not get into either classes. I even tried Rit and just could not get into it after a while. I guess I am more into choosing easy to use classes like Ranger, War, Ele and Necro. With those classes I can easly put together a stellar build. With Assasin it just seems like way too much work.

Siren · Jun 12, 2006, 08:18 AM // 08:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killmur

Nice assumption that I am a wannabe ranger and that I played a limited bit of assasin. I have three rangers. I am rather good with the Ranger class.

You didn't even get what I was saying. You're trying to play your Assassin like a Ranger. That's why you're just a wannabe Ranger. If you want to rock out a Bloody Barrage build, play a primary Ranger. Don't try to play A/R and then cut down Assassins because you aren't having the same kind of success that the Bloody Barrage build has had...and there have been one or two people here who have come up with diabolically effective A/R builds, by the way.

Quote:

I have also played assasin since I got Factions 2 days after it came out. I have played GW for nearly 6 months. Do not assume that someone like me is limited and a wannabe.

Okay, so explain to me how if you and I have been playing Assassin for the same amount of time chronologically, how in the hell am I able to rock out my Assassin with a variety of builds and you apparently can't even get past energy management? Given that, in concluding that you're limited, inexperienced, and a wannabe (even though had you read my post carefully, you'd see I was using that word in a different context)...I didn't assume anything. I made a very sensible and relevant observation.

Quote:

I know how to play this game and I know how to make builds. I actually have gotten rather good with creating builds that suit me.

Obviously you haven't if you've written off Assassins after having limited playtime with them--and within that limited playtime, playing them as a Ranger rather than a hit-and-run multi-target kill machine. And I say MULTI-target for a reason. Assassins are single target killers who get in, assassinate one enemy, then get out to wait for skill recharge?

Not with some of the builds I've created. And I'm keeping them close to my vest.

Quote:

As for assasin I do not like dealing with the energy issues or the skills.

There are no energy issues when you've constructed a build properly. I have no idea what you're even trying to say there regarding skills, by the way. What, do you have an issue with skill recharge? Cost? I can guarantee you that I've worked around 95% of skill cost/recharge problems with my Assassin.

Quote:

I have no hatred towards assasins whatsoever.

Who said anything about hatred? I think you're just a douchebag who hasn't actually learned the profession. lol. Is that an unreasonable assessment? What, just because I don't think you've attempted to understand the dynamics of the profession, I automatically am accusing (whether explicitly or implicitly) you of being a "hater"? What are you talking about? lol

Quote:

I just have a few problems with the energy and slight armor issue.

Issues that become largely non-existent when you've got a deeper understanding of the profession. The only times I've got armor issues are when Ele bosses can nuke the entire party for upwards of 400 damage in one shot. But most stuff in the party dies from that kind of shit, and if Warriors don't die, they're hurting. A lot.

Quote:

Siren: Did you play assasin alot during FPE? I have a hunch that might be why you are so good with assasin. I never really got into the whole FPE myself.

I played an Assassin during the FPE, yeah, but they've changed so much that most of what I taught myself during FPE became a loose, basic foundation. Everything that I know now, however, is what I've learned, taught myself, and refined since Factions launched. Which means that nobody has any excuse for not being able to be effective (and in my case, very bloodily efficient) with an Assassin. If I figured out some neat tricks to unlock more of the Assassin's potential...anyone can.

EDIT:

Quote:

Sidenote: I think the other reason besides energy and armor is that I treated assasin like it was a Mesmer or Monk class. I could not get into either classes. I even tried Rit and just could not get into it after a while. I guess I am more into choosing easy to use classes like Ranger, War, Ele and Necro. With those classes I can easly put together a stellar build. With Assasin it just seems like way too much work.

So...if it's just laziness...why would you even bother posting here, trying to pass off your assessment as remotely relevant or reasonably informed, when you really can't be bothered to learn a "deeper" profession?

JR · Jun 12, 2006, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Less flaming.