Curse

Themis · Jun 03, 2006, 09:08 AM // 09:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella

Conjure Phantasm gives a bad name to pve mesmers imo)

I wasn't aware of this... can you please explain ?

Francis Demeules · Jun 03, 2006, 02:06 PM // 14:06

If its about spamming ONLY this skill, ok. But Phantasm can be great in many combo with Image of Remorse (-8/-9 degen). Dont forget if the foe attacks, IoR do some dmg like WW at the same time.

Eaimirth Etaivella · Jun 04, 2006, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Yep; to me spamming a skill means a skill to use while all of your other skills are recharging. Now Images of Remorse is a great skill to spam; on multiple targets. Its low energy; likely one of the most if not the most damage to energy spell in the game.

However; conjure phantasm is expensive, low damage to cost ratio, and offers no immediate gain. If you need more than one "spam skill" you should have your head examined. The point of a spam skill is to do something while your other skills are recharging, Images is great, Wastrel's great, needing two skills to accomplish the single purpose of a spam skill is a waste.

I would sooner take a fc mesmer over a conjure phantasm spammer; at least the fc offers immediate gain.

Francis Demeules · Jun 04, 2006, 05:25 AM // 05:25

Phantasm expensive?

Let see........ mmmhhhhhh... ah yes... conjure Nightmare. 25 energy for a -8 and last the same time as Phantasm.

Phantasm + IoR = -9 (lvl 13) and cost only 15 energy.

Anyway, I'm not a "Everyone Big Phantasm Spammer".

I know IoR so good if we compare Phantasm, but its easy to create something with it anyway.

Eaimirth Etaivella · Jun 04, 2006, 06:30 AM // 06:30

Heh comparing a bad pve skill with a very bad pve skill does make it look somewhat flashy; but why anyone would need two spam skills, one of which does horrid dps due to short duration of pve enemies, expensive cost for said duration, and offers no immediate gain...

Not really fond of degen in pve for this exact point really. Enemies just shouldn't live that long.

Dragannia · Jun 04, 2006, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Conjure Phantasm is a bad damage skill, but a very good cover hex. IoR has too short a duration to be a good cover hex. It's a bit on the expensive side, however, but with enough energy management you should be able to sustain it.

Eaimirth Etaivella · Jun 04, 2006, 07:50 AM // 07:50

How is IoR a short duration skill...? It has a duration that matches Conjure's at half the energy cost. Very easy to keep up and to spam; and it is good to spam for the damage bonus as well so it has decent efficiency at doing so. Practically every illusion build out there should have this skill; can't really think of a reason not to. Heck I can even see IW running it =/

Too long a cast time for a cover hex if thats what you ment though.

Avarre · Jun 04, 2006, 08:03 AM // 08:03

Quote:

It has a duration that matches Conjure's at half the energy cost.

This is the part where you remember you don't have factions and stay quiet.

At 16 illu, its 10s IoR and 15s conjure.

While not matching conjure, if you're running persistance its still a good cover hex and lasts a fairly long time.

Eaimirth Etaivella · Jun 04, 2006, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Yet if you are running them both at rank 8 for a spammable skill (IoR) and a powerful defensive stance (distortion) they are equal.
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Images_of_Remorse
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Conjure_Phantasm
/sigh Avarre trys to nick-pick another arguement...
Regardless at 16 illu it should add 50 (55 actually)or so damage if they are attacking which at 10 hp/sec of degen should make the damage equal(or IoR wins by 5). However you could use MoP to increase the duration of Conjure etc. thus increasing the dmg/mp ratio of conjure more than IoR but IoR still blows CP out of the water regardless.

Cover hexes need to be two things; cast fast, cost little. Conjure doesn't cost as little as I would like but IoR doesn't cast as fast as I would like. However I would take IoR over conjure simply due to the versitality of IoR.

Kriel Drache · Jun 04, 2006, 09:54 AM // 09:54

Okay, I'm probably going to catch a LOT of flak from my Mesmer brethren for this... I am personally partial to Illusion of Pain. Now before you start coming after me with illusionary torches and pitchforks, hear me out. I have used this in PvE and PvP and with the right skills to complement it, it can play a big part in taking down almost anything. It's actually a key skill in the build I'm currently using which has some people cussing me out by the second or third time it kills them. Don't hurt me Avarre!

Avarre · Jun 04, 2006, 09:58 AM // 09:58

Problem with pain is that by the end of it, it has had no effect. It also removes the power of all other degen sources such as conditions etc. If removed prematurely, it causes even more trouble.

I'm sure it has SOME use... but not one that it couldn't be replaced with phantasm+remorse for.

Kriel Drache · Jun 04, 2006, 10:05 AM // 10:05

That's why I bring along a large number of other skills to complement it like Mantra of Persistence so I can cast it again before it runs out and a bunch of cover hexes like Images of Remorse, Clumsiness and Ineptitude which they'll have to wade through to get to it. It's main weakness is against Contemplation Builds. I mostly put it in to at least partially counteract regen from Healing Breeze, Troll Unguent, Shadow Refuge and the like so they don't make any headway with the healing.

I Gotcha i · Jun 04, 2006, 10:20 AM // 10:20

Mesmers own in PvE/PvP, we have a bad rap because stupid people play mesmer badly...U can hench ur way through all of guild wars with a mesmer and usually your better off with henchies then the pugs that think mesmers suck anyways...Empathy/Backfire or SS/Empathy/Backfire is more than enough in PvE....If groups wont accept you dont cry about how good mesmers are, grab the healer hench and forget about the w/mo that called u a noob....if you cant hench with a mesmer using backfire ,empathy , power drain and enchant drain + whatever other dom skills u want the w/mo was right.....u are a noob

Dragannia · Jun 04, 2006, 10:45 AM // 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Gotcha i

Mesmers own in PvE/PvP, we have a bad rap because stupid people play mesmer badly...U can hench ur way through all of guild wars with a mesmer and usually your better off with henchies then the pugs that think mesmers suck anyways...Empathy/Backfire or SS/Empathy/Backfire is more than enough in PvE....If groups wont accept you dont cry about how good mesmers are, grab the healer hench and forget about the w/mo that called u a noob....if you cant hench with a mesmer using backfire ,empathy , power drain and enchant drain + whatever other dom skills u want the w/mo was right.....u are a noob

It's not that simple. Try any high level missions, using those skills you mentioned. Most of the time, the henchmen simply can't heal enough, since everyone (with the possible exception of Redemptor Karl) have horrible builds.

Eaimirth Etaivella · Jun 04, 2006, 01:10 PM // 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Gotcha i

Mesmers own in PvE/PvP, we have a bad rap because stupid people play mesmer badly...U can hench ur way through all of guild wars with a mesmer and usually your better off with henchies then the pugs that think mesmers suck anyways...Empathy/Backfire or SS/Empathy/Backfire is more than enough in PvE....If groups wont accept you dont cry about how good mesmers are, grab the healer hench and forget about the w/mo that called u a noob....if you cant hench with a mesmer using backfire ,empathy , power drain and enchant drain + whatever other dom skills u want the w/mo was right.....u are a noob

/agree it is entirely possible to play a mesmer all the way through pve, THK bonus and killing Glint included, with henchies.

However we now have this great new thing called duel (which will get nerfed for some reason I swear...)so we can easily kill wammos(for sake of pride =p); just feedback their enchantment use mantra of persistence crippling anguish phantom pain conjurephantasm/images of remorse and they lose. Energy tap, whatever to prevent excessive cop use, wammos are not noted for their energy pool (not that I have ever dueled a wammo and have actually seen this skill used, it should be, but never is) bring ignorence with enough points in it to perma counter heal sig and a few interrupts~ you win. Game over no possible builds that they could have can beat you. Wammo bites the dust.

Doesn't get you the group; but stops their mesmer hate flame and gives you some self esteem back.

Avarre · Jun 04, 2006, 01:16 PM // 13:16

Don't bother with ignorance, complicate ftw! Interrupt AND signet disable = gg warrior.

And just for the record, THK is easier with hench than with real players 95% of the time. Especially as mesmer... Perfected armor? Ineptitude. Demetrios? Diversion.

Francis Demeules · Jun 04, 2006, 01:41 PM // 13:41

If ppl complain to be stuck at THK, its because they generally have a problem (Rage Quitter, Lack of communication,etc). As the time passes, ppl ask Tank, Monk, Nuker, MM and SS now. I rarely see asking the other professions (Mesmer, Ranger and other Elemantalist type).

Eaimirth Etaivella · Jun 04, 2006, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Don't bother with ignorance, complicate ftw! Interrupt AND signet disable = gg warrior.

And just for the record, THK is easier with hench than with real players 95% of the time. Especially as mesmer... Perfected armor? Ineptitude. Demetrios? Diversion.

Some of us don't have factions =/
Nice idea with the interrupt on complicate; although ignorence will stop their cast as well (if it hits before sig goes off)

I Gotcha i · Jun 04, 2006, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragannia

It's not that simple. Try any high level missions, using those skills you mentioned. Most of the time, the henchmen simply can't heal enough, since everyone (with the possible exception of Redemptor Karl) have horrible builds.

I fully henched both sides of GW using only those skillz...if the henchmen cant heal ur targeting the wrong enemy's first.......

Eaimirth Etaivella · Jun 04, 2006, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francis Demeules

If ppl complain to be stuck at THK, its because they generally have a problem (Rage Quitter, Lack of communication,etc). As the time passes, ppl ask Tank, Monk, Nuker, MM and SS now. I rarely see asking the other professions (Mesmer, Ranger and other Elemantalist type).

Wonder if there will be a day and age where groups are formed from one of each profession.

Yet (how I see it)
Henchies obtain 2 monks, one pro and one healing
-PuGs want 2 monks, one pro and one healing
Henchies get 2 tanks
-PuGs want 2 tanks
Henchie mesmer sucks
-PuGs think mesmers suck
etc.