Curse

Undead Preacher · May 12, 2006, 07:30 AM // 07:30

K frst of all I have used an MM build to beat factions with henches. Since the so called MM nerf with the max minions of 10 I prefer to summon 1 Flesh Golem + 9 Bone fiends...

my question is this.... besides the Flesh Golem are Bone Fiends still the minions of choice or are the new vampric horrors better...

Also PLZ, and I said PLZ... stop complaining about this nerf... its over and not going to change.... just evolve with it. I'm also seeing several MM's claiming to have been able to control 80 minions...LMFAO, get real.. even in MF that many are never controlled By 1 Person!

Yes I think that V. Sacrifce was slaughtered with the nerf and Yes I obviously think that if I could still have 20-30 minions I would obviously be more powerful... but I still own with no problems with 10... especially with my daddy mack golem leading the crew! So I would just like people opinions on my other 9 minions

IMO
Bone Fiends > Bone Horrors
but are Vampric Horrors > Bone fiends???

My Current Build:

N/Mo

Attributes:
Death Magic: 16
Soul Reaping: 13

Skills:
1) Flesh Golem{e}
2) Animate Bone Fiends
3) Animate Vampric Horrors
4) Deathly Swarm
5) Death Nova
6) V. Sacrifice
7) Blood of the Master
8) Rebirth

- Cast Death Nova on your Flesh Golem before you replace him... do it often and its some nice AOE damage.
Nothing like sitting there with a detenator... oh yea

Basically I was running 1 flesh golem and 9 fiends... now i'm running 1 golem... and as many vamprics as i can, casting fiends when its recharging!

I walked through factions with absolutely no problems.... not solo, henches all the way!

Suggestions
20/20 wand and 20/20 offhand (fast cast/ recharge) ~KCP~
Bloodstained Boots and +energy armor

here's my weapon setup... but the one KCP suggest is a better choice! just my preference

Another Plus about Factions.... new skins for Bloodstained boots... bout time ty anet
The ones I got are just 1.5.... but MM isn't my primary build!

Kcp · May 12, 2006, 07:41 AM // 07:41

Vampiric horrors can heal you pretty decently. A lot of people hate them due to the 15 second recharge. I have no idea what these people are using itemwise ( wand, offhand.)

I use the 20/20 weapon crafter max death wand with the 20/20 cesta. I dont even notice waiting on recharges. Sometimes you get the insta cast / recharge minions which is great. I don't care about +1 skills. I wouldn't sacrifice one of the 20/20's for a 20% chance at a 1 lvl higher minion......but thats just me.

Flesh golem, 4-5 vampiric horrors, and the rest fiends in the backlines plows thru the enemies. Those crazy damage dealing earth ele's in factions can give you problems as can some of those lvl 28 spirit rift casting ritualist bosses. But other then that factions with MM necro was child's play.

Let people hate on the MM. They are wasting their breath just like the ele's after the aoe update ( and they are still crying and hating on the necro.)

Undead Preacher · May 12, 2006, 07:45 AM // 07:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kcp

Vampiric horrors can heal you pretty decently. A lot of people hate them due to the 15 second recharge. I have no idea what these people are using itemwise ( wand, offhand.)

I use the 20/20 weapon crafter max death wand with the 20/20 cesta. I dont even notice waiting on recharges. Sometimes you get the insta cast / recharge minions which is great. I don't care about +1 skills. I wouldn't sacrifice one of the 20/20's for a 20% chance at a 1 lvl higher minion......but thats just me.

Flesh golem, 4-5 vampiric horrors, and the rest fiends in the backlines plows thru the enemies. Those crazy damage dealing earth ele's in factions can give you problems as can some of those lvl 28 spirit rift casting ritualist bosses. But other then that factions with MM necro was child's play.

Let people hate on the MM. They are wasting their breath just like the ele's after the aoe update ( and they are still crying and hating on the necro.)

thank you KCP... Advice from you is always appreciated

Rion · May 12, 2006, 12:54 PM // 12:54

Frankly people are weak of mind and cringe at the mere thought of change. A lot of people have run with an old reliable build for MM for a long time and to change that is inconcievable.

As KCP said, let them hate. They're wasting their breath.

All the more corpses for me.

Cymboric Treewalker · May 12, 2006, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Hmm... may have to start a Factions Necro after reading this...

MelechRic · May 12, 2006, 01:11 PM // 13:11

I'm just going to reiterate the sentiments in this thread. I've MM'd all the way through factions with zero problems. I go with Golem, fiends and horrors. The horrors are only there to exploit a corpse if I have no other alternative.

MM is still the "easy button" when it comes to PvE.

BTW: where is that 20/20 wand?

EDIT: Forgot that there's a level 28 Elementalist boss in Jade sea... that guy will rock your MM, but I think he could rock most things besides an interrupt ranger.

HawkofStorms · May 12, 2006, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Rt/N with points in spawning for a MM is pretty sweet too. I didn't think it would be until I saw a guildie run it. Even with only 12 in death magic, the health gain on on your summoned creatures still helps a ton.

Carinae · May 12, 2006, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undead Preacher

my question is this.... besides the Flesh Golem are Bone Fiends still the minions of choice or are the new vampric horrors better?

The recycle time is too long, the energy cost is too high, the dps is too low, and the health comes to me not the minion.

VHorrors = not very good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undead Preacher

I'm also seeing several MM's claiming to have been able to control 80 minions...LMFAO, get real.. even in MF that many are never controlled!

I don't know how to break this to you, but pre-nerf MM's could indeed have 80 or more minions up at one moment. Corpses can be generated far more quickly in PvE than in PvP. Much much faster.

Pre-nerf, minions lived for 6 minutes without trying very hard. Assuming a constant supply of corpses and no energy issues then you can raise 120 horrors/fiends during that time and that's without Bloodstained Boots. With BSB, it's 160 during the same time period. (That's 320 Bone Minions!)

Now, realistically, losses from degen and combat plus energy issues on the MM prevented one from hitting the ceiling. But 80-100 horrors/fiends was definately attainable.

EDIT: I forgot to include the aftercast delay. So, here's the corrected numbers:

Without BSB: 96 fiends/horrors
With BSB: 120 fiends/horrors

zulu123 · May 12, 2006, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kcp

I use the 20/20 weapon crafter max death wand with the 20/20 cesta. I dont even notice waiting on recharges.

This is interesting. I was under the impression that the crafters only crafted focus items for casters. Are there also wand crafters in Factions?

Jade_Onyx · May 12, 2006, 05:04 PM // 17:04

I've always loved MMs and I never sticked with one build (went ranger, war...that one didn't really work...was interesting using different skills then the old standard raise raise GoR VS raise raise raise...). As for the Vampiric minions...I have found that the skill takes too long to recharge during a fight (i dont like having lots of skills on my bar that take forever to recharge...and yes 15 seconds for me is forever...). I actually don't mind the nerf since it allows me to remove VS (I find that its kinda useless now since you can renew your minions once you reach 10) and add in some other corpse spells (well of profane FTW). It also allows me to death nova all my minions now and just spam the rez horros for mass explosions hehe. Now to heal my minions I just use BotM and heal area for my health. Every group I've been in so far has at least mentioned how 'awsome at MMing' I am (strange that they notice it more with 10 minions then when I had 20+ pre nerf...). Anywho, just my two cents. By the way, the build I am using right now is horrors, fiends, golum, BotM, heal area, tast of death, death nova, well of profane (or anything really, depends on the group and the area).

Kcp · May 12, 2006, 06:47 PM // 18:47

20/20 wands can be crafted at the 15k armor cities in each territory. They cost 5 plat.

With 20/20 wand and a 20/20 focus a 15 second recharge is nothing on vampiric horrors

I find it nice that the horrors heal you and not themselves. Why do I say this? Because spamming botm with 10 minions is a nice chunk of life. If running 9 vampiric horrors that sac is regained in a short period of time w/o any outside healing. They regularly hit in the 30's-40's........thats 30-40 health you gain each attack totally nullifying the life you lost healing each one individually for +122 with Botm. It will put less strain on your monk in your group as well.

Ya there will be times the faster recharge doesnt kick in. Toss a bone fiend in the mix when this happens. You don't need ALL your minions to be melee.

I said in another post that myself and 2 of my buddies each using a necro carved a nice chunk thru ferndale with NO monk or anyone else in the group. I had no outside source of healing except vampiric horrors, no taste of death , soul feast, or consume corpse. Spammed BoTm when needed, and was quickly refilled by their life steal.

Dog on them as much as you want. They work perfect IMO.

Grafalcon Darkeyes · May 12, 2006, 08:10 PM // 20:10

The Way I Do My MM is I use bone fiends and vamp horrors when ever one of ems not recharging i just throw one up then heal it is hard for the healer :P lol but o well :P
I Think There Was Nothing Wrong With The Nerf Except The V-sacrifice if They Wouldnt of Nerfd that then It would of Made It alot Easier For the sacrif part and for the healer's
but thats what the call adapting to certain situations

Dr. Fire · May 12, 2006, 10:05 PM // 22:05

I am using 1 Flesh Golem, 8 Fiends, and 1 Bone Horror. I use the Bone Horror as my Death Nova Bomb. Taste of Death detonates him, and heals me. In Factions there are a lot of foes, so it is no problem making more minion bombs. I also carry 8 points in Healing prayers which gives me 110 heal with Heal Area. So, I stand in the middle of my fiends and alternately cast BotM and HA, Minions and I stay alive nicely. Works great and Vamp Horrors aren't needed.

Undead Preacher · May 12, 2006, 10:43 PM // 22:43

This is what I'm currently using from a weapons crafter in an explorable area... I would prefer 20-40% recharge but this works for now...

Scourage of Death · May 12, 2006, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Could KCP and Undead Preacher plz share their build...I have been using a N/Rt and havent found it extremely usefull thus far and was wondering what you guys are using

Undead Preacher · May 12, 2006, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scourage of Death

Could KCP and Undead Preacher plz share their build...I have been using a N/Rt and havent found it extremely usefull thus far and was wondering what you guys are using

I'll post mine a little later tonight... taking care of my fire breathing daughter right now... 6 months old and she already runs the house!

Scourage of Death · May 12, 2006, 11:55 PM // 23:55

lol that sucks hf and ill wait for that post

Dark Tykane · May 13, 2006, 02:57 AM // 02:57

With the recharge wand and offhand Vamp horrors are definately better without a question. The only thing that I saw is wrong with them is when mixed with bone fiends....Sometimes they get cought on the fiends and your horrors are all useless because they can't move.(In most small areas this is a problem e.g. places like Skyway) I'm not Luxon but when I did the Luxon pre-mission (whatever you want to call it) there was so much open space that I plowed through with fiends and vamps and it only took a few minutes to kill the kracken.

Undead Preacher · May 13, 2006, 03:25 AM // 03:25

updated with my build... its nothing uber... but its all i needed to beat factions with no problems.

its edited into my OP

oh... the one difference is i used bone horrors instead of vampric... but the vampric eliminated my need for a self heal!

Scourage of Death · May 13, 2006, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Ty man...Only thing i change is the veratas(dont find it usefull anymore)...BTW where do you get the new bloodstained boots and is there a place to change your armor to factions yet(I wanna change my 15k rly bad lol)?