Curse

rangersaurus · May 30, 2006, 09:45 PM // 21:45

I did a search to see if people had tried to do signet based mesmer and i saw a few that were pretty cool so I thought I would try one out with some alterations. So here's the build:

Mesmer/Monk
Level: 20

Fast Casting: 12 (11+1)
Inspiration Magic: 14 (10+4)
Smiting Prayers: 10

- Mantra of Signets (Inspiration Magic)
For 24 seconds, the next time you use a Signet, it recharges immediately.
Energy:15 Cast:0 Recharge:30

- Mantra of Inscriptions (Inspiration Magic)
For 86 seconds, your Signets recharge 48% faster.
Energy:10 Cast:0 Recharge:20

- Signet of Humility (Inspiration Magic)
Target foe's elite skill is disabled for 15 seconds.
Energy:0 Cast:2 Recharge:20

- Leech Signet (Inspiration Magic)
Interrupt target foe's action. If that action was a Spell, you gain 14 Energy.
Energy:0 Cast:0.25 Recharge:45

- Signet of Judgment [Elite] (Smiting Prayers)
Target foe is knocked down. That foe and all adjacent foes take 55 holy damage.
Energy:0 Cast:2 Recharge:25

- Bane Signet (Smiting Prayers)
Target foe takes 46 holy damage. If that foe was attacking, he is knocked down.
Energy:0 Cast:2 Recharge:25

- Purge Signet (Monk other)
Remove all Hexes and Conditions from target ally. You lose 10 Energy for each Hex and each Condition removed.
Energy:0 Cast:3 Recharge:20

- Holy Veil (Monk other)
While you maintain this Enchantment, any Hex cast on target ally takes twice as long to cast. When Holy Veil ends, one Hex is removed from target ally.
Energy:5 Cast:0.62 Recharge:12

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I only have prophecies, so I didn't have access to factions skills though I will mention some variations that might be possible using this build. I did this in PvE but haven't tested it in PvP, so I can't say how well this would work in 4v4 or GvG.

The basic idea is to have mantra of sigs up almost all the time, and then to be able to cast intrrupts like leech sign, bane, and sig of judgement quickly. purge can help clear of conditions, and holy veil is for hexs which takes a burden off your monks. of course you can use mend ailment or inspired hex if you prefer. I think purge works better then mend ailment because this isn't a very energy dependent build so losing energy for each condition isnt huge at least in pve plus it is a "monk other" skill so no need to put points into protection, but again do what you feel most comfortable with.

obviously you might ask why have mantra of sig and mantra of inscription. i found that if i was using mantra of sigs and got hit with skills like distracting shot or disrupting chop which disable it, it significanlty hindered the effectiveness of the build, and having inscriptions as a backup is a god send.

Variations: For pvp, you could switch out sig of humilty for sig of weariness if you want to do energy drain on spell casters (signet of disrutption can help too). If you already have someone focusing on knockdowns, then drop bane and judgement for distortion (to avoid melee) and use keystone sig (which would allow you to drop mantra of inscriptions and still be effective if mantra of sigs is disabled and fill in inscriptions with something else of your choosing). another variation is to use sig of midnight to replace judement if you prefer. hex eater sig could be used instead of holy veil though you may have to move into harms way to use it. lastly, a monk might be able to use this sort of build that spams sig of rejuvination, sig of devotion, and boon signet, the two mantras, leech signet/distortion, mend ailemnt/purge, and holy veil (mesmers wouldn't be able to effectively use the divine spells). Sorry for the crappy grammer and lack of capitalization, I will fix it in a bit.

Any thoughts? I realize that there are many spells that can counter signets, so please don't list them off. Rather constructive criticism such as possible possble skill variations would be appreciated.

Eaimirth Etaivella · May 31, 2006, 12:05 AM // 00:05

2 skills that I would suggest
Succor
Holy Wrath

Would dump the mantras and SoJ for Keystone

Hella Good · May 31, 2006, 12:22 AM // 00:22

I would rly like to see a new take on this. The Smiting thing is getting old. We got given some wonderful and amazing new Signets. I don't see them here. No cookies for you.

Eaimirth Etaivella · May 31, 2006, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

I would rly like to see a new take on this. The Smiting thing is getting old. We got given some wonderful and amazing new Signets. I don't see them here. No cookies for you.

Admit it; succor/holy wrath are the best things signets have going for them. I am personally interested in succor and I think it could be a big player in high level pvp. The fact that you redirect mp regeneration while having signets which ignore mp activation barriers makes for an interesting combination. The fact that you deflect succor's downfall to void and give free hp regeneration is frosting as far as I can tell. With a few interrupts; knockdown, healing, etc. signets I can definatly see it playing a role in gvg=however we have yet to see how.

Personally I think it will likely fall under a monk/mesmer build, but thats just me forcasting stuff. (due to healing signets/more powerful damage signets if holy wrath...more powerful holy wrath, etc.)

Francis Demeules · May 31, 2006, 01:01 AM // 01:01

Holy Wrath
Retribution
Mantra of Inscription
Keystone Signet (E)
Unnatural Signet
Leech Signet/Signet of Disenchantment
Signet of Disruprtion
Rez/Signet of Humility

Why having all these energy for nothing? Using Holy Wrath/Retribution

Hella Good · May 31, 2006, 03:45 AM // 03:45

The nrg you don't use, you can invest in 25 nrg skills. It doesn't have to be HWrath. And it doesn't have to include Smiting.

Eaimirth Etaivella · May 31, 2006, 03:55 AM // 03:55

Still looking deeply into succor, divine favor/healing prayer linked signets.

Kriel Drache · May 31, 2006, 02:20 PM // 14:20

I've actually made and used a Signet build before and it worked pretty well. Here it is:

Domination: 14
Inspiration: 12

Mantra of Signets
Signet of Disruption
Leech Signet
Unnatural Signet
Signet of Weariness
Signet of Humility
Ether Feast
Keystone Signet

makosi · May 31, 2006, 02:23 PM // 14:23

I think that would work well with an Oath Short ranger/mesmer too. They have better defence, higher armour and energy isn't an issue. Mantra of Signets would cost very little with a decent amount of Expertise and a +5 energy weapon would also help.

rangersaurus · May 31, 2006, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Since Hella seems to want something besides smiting here is a damage/degen build I thought up using a Me/N.

Mesmer/Necromancer
Level: 20

Fast Casting: 11 (10+1)
Inspiration Magic: 15 (11+4)
Blood Magic: 10

- Mantra of Signets (Inspiration Magic)
For 25 seconds, the next time you use a Signet, it recharges immediately.
Energy:15 Cast:0 Recharge:30

- Mantra of Inscriptions (Inspiration Magic)
For 90 seconds, your Signets recharge 50% faster.
Energy:10 Cast:0 Recharge:20

- Signet of Agony (Blood Magic)
Sacrifice 10% maximun Health and suffer from Bleeding for 25 seconds. All nearby foes take 33 damage.
Energy:0 Cast:0.75 Recharge:15

- Barbed Signet (Blood Magic)
Sacrifice 8% max Health. You steal 46 Health from target foe.
Energy:0 Cast:2 Recharge:20

- Life Transfer [Elite] (Blood Magic)
For 10 seconds, target foe suffers Health degeneration of 6, which you gain as Health regeneration.
Energy:10 Cast:1.3 Recharge:30

- Life Siphon (Blood Magic)
For 20 seconds, target suffers -2 Health degeneration, and you gain +2 Health regeneration.
Energy:10 Cast:1.3 Recharge:2

- Leech Signet (Inspiration Magic)
Interrupt target foe's action. If that action was a Spell, you gain 15 Energy.
Energy:0 Cast:0.25 Recharge:45

- Distortion (Illusion Magic)
For 5 Seconds, you have a 75% chance to "evade" attacks. Whenever you evade an attack this way, you lose 4..2 Energy or Distortion ends.
Energy:5 Cast:0 Recharge:5

Basically, cast Agony and Barbed to deal damage, then use life transfer/siphon to self heal, you could also use wither/malaise for energy degen instead. No points in illusion since putting points into into it would only decease the energy lose by distortion by 1-2 pts which doesnt seem worth it. Obviously this doesn't have the condition removal that the previous build had.

Here's a slight variation:

Mesmer/Necromancer
Level: 20

Fast Casting: 11 (10+1)
Inspiration Magic: 15 (11+4)
Blood Magic: 10

- Vampiric Gaze (Blood Magic)
Steal 46 Health from target foe.
Energy:10 Cast:0.65 Recharge:5

- Mantra of Inscriptions (Inspiration Magic)
For 90 seconds, your Signets recharge 50% faster.
Energy:10 Cast:0 Recharge:20

- Signet of Agony (Blood Magic)
Sacrifice 10% maximun Health and suffer from Bleeding for 25 seconds. All nearby foes take 33 damage.
Energy:0 Cast:0.75 Recharge:15

- Barbed Signet (Blood Magic)
Sacrifice 8% max Health. You steal 46 Health from target foe.
Energy:0 Cast:2 Recharge:20

- Unnatural Signet (Domination Magic)
Target foe takes 15..63 damage. If that foe was a Spirit, this signet recharges instantly.
Energy:0 Cast:1 Recharge:40

- Keystone Signet [Elite] (Inspiration Magic)
All of your Signets except Keystone Signet are recharged. All of your non-Signet skills are disabled for 5 seconds.
Energy:0 Cast:2 Recharge:30

- Leech Signet (Inspiration Magic)
Interrupt target foe's action. If that action was a Spell, you gain 15 Energy.
Energy:0 Cast:0.25 Recharge:45

- Distortion (Illusion Magic)
For 5 Seconds, you have a 75% chance to "evade" attacks. Whenever you evade an attack this way, you lose 4..2 Energy or Distortion ends.
Energy:5 Cast:0 Recharge:5

More damage from the unnatural and keystone is in so we can drop inscriptions, then vamp gaze to heal after using the barbed/agony sigs. Any thoughts?

I still think a monk (I know this is a mes forum but I think it is worth mentioning) using boon sig, sig of devotion, and sig of rejuvination with the two mantras, leech signet/distortion, mend ailemnt/purge sig, and holy veil would be pretty bad ass. If anyone tries this let me know.

Keep the discussion going. =)

EDIT: Forgot to switch attribute points for the last build, unnatural sig needs points in domination. Just adjust to your tastes.

CrispyCritter · May 31, 2006, 03:06 PM // 15:06

A couple notes on signet mesmers: You tend to get owned by interrupt rangers, and you operate really well under Quickening Zephyr. Half recharge on skills that don't cost any energy is win.

14 Domination
13 Inspiration

Keystone Signet {E}
Signet of Weariness
Signet of Humility
Signet of Disenchantment
Purge Signet/Hex Eater Signet
Leech Signet
Mantra of Inscriptions
Res Sig.

Hella Good · May 31, 2006, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrispyCritter

A couple notes on signet mesmers: You tend to get owned by interrupt rangers, and you operate really well under Quickening Zephyr.

Interrupt rangers don't like Distortion and QZ, although definitely an interesting suggestion, is rarely worthwhile in a team situation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rangersaurus

Since Hella seems to want something besides smiting here is a damage/degen build I thought up using a Me/N.

Nice. How exactly do you expect to use the Agony Sig btw? It's area is nice but you need to be pretty close to your target and that bleeding lasts quite some time- you should think of ways to get rid of it. Plague Touch, or Plague Sending, or Plague Sig might prove useful. Also Dark Aura and Agony Sig work very well together, spreads your attributes too thin though.

I'll think of something myself, just too busy packing/unpacking (I'm moving).

holden · May 31, 2006, 07:59 PM // 19:59

mantra of inscriptions
sig of midnight-blind
plague touch
sig of agony-bleeding

thats the meat of the build really and the only way to do any damage. which aint much.

then add whatever.

leech sig should probably be in there.
i like sig of humility. it sucks to lose your elite.
since you wont be doing much damage anyway, unnatural sig could be very helpful vs spirits.
but i think the hex eater sig is useful as well.

something i've been trying to play out is a mesmer/ass with
sig of midnight
sig of shadows
sig of malice
mantra of inscriptions

i get stuck here. many ways to go but they all end up doing not much damage and not much utlility. i'll keep on it

Mystic Memory · May 31, 2006, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Why is fast casting so high in all of your builds? I dont think holy veil is worth pumping 12 into fc :P

Quote:

found that if i was using mantra of sigs and got hit with skills like distracting shot or disrupting chop which disable it

How does interrupts disable a stance? Does mantra of sigs go away if your signet is interrupted?

Quote:

mesmer/ass

Did anyone else almost fall off their chair laughing?

Hella Good · Jun 01, 2006, 01:37 AM // 01:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystic Memory

Did anyone else almost fall off their chair laughing?

No.1 When you quote some1 can you pls include their names so that the less patient of us can know who you are talking about w/o reading the whole thread?

No.2 What's wrong with Mesmer/Assassin? I think it is a wonderful combo.

@holden: I like the idea of Sig of Midnight and Sig of Shadows/Malace. It does feel a bit wasteful tho. I mean Sig of Midnight works best with Plague Touch and the likes (so you get 2 blinds out of one use) but then having Sig of Shadows and maybe like Unnatural can actually make for some nice damage.

Real question with a Sig build is:

1) What are you going to do with the energy you have managed to preserve through Sig use?

and I also think a non-sig hex remover would be nice (for the rare occasions people bring stuff like Panic and Ignorance).

Avarre · Jun 01, 2006, 01:49 AM // 01:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

No.2 What's wrong with Mesmer/Assassin? I think it is a wonderful combo.

They were laughing at the mesmer/ASS part of it. Use Sin, A, or Asn to denote the secondary

Lots of mesmer signets, make use of them especially Unnatural, since with keystone you might as well get some damage off with it

Eaimirth Etaivella · Jun 01, 2006, 03:22 AM // 03:22

However I think the signet build that emerges will be a mo/me instead of a me/whatever...solely due to more powerful healing signets and succor. That or a more powerful holy wrath.

BaconSoda · Jun 05, 2006, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Succor really isn't that strong, unless used to cancel out vamp in GvG (tried it, worked wonderfully, 2 W/Mo or R/Mo put it on each other). Holy wrath is also really energy straining, even with ur saved energy by using signets. I suppose that the enregy is for the mantras & purge signet usage(since you can remove all, and drains 10 for each condition/hex. Lets be glad they took that off Danika[Healer Henchman]), and with Holy Wrath you wouldn't have enough energy in the arenas to use the mantras.

Eaimirth Etaivella · Jun 05, 2006, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaconSoda

Succor really isn't that strong, unless used to cancel out vamp in GvG (tried it, worked wonderfully, 2 W/Mo or R/Mo put it on each other). Holy wrath is also really energy straining, even with ur saved energy by using signets. I suppose that the enregy is for the mantras & purge signet usage(since you can remove all, and drains 10 for each condition/hex. Lets be glad they took that off Danika[Healer Henchman]), and with Holy Wrath you wouldn't have enough energy in the arenas to use the mantras.

The point of succor is that your entire bar is not reliant on energy; while you are able to redirect this energy to allies who are more "needy" of this energy. (as they will benefit from having less energy management skills and you will benefit for having more signet energy non-reliant skills {keystone signet}, it might still be possible to use mantra of signets etc. however (ether signet))

Holy Wrath is powerful because we don't care about energy at all, we are going to cast this on 4 people (like above) and simply forget about it. Possibly 2 people; if we want to use retribution in addition to wrath.

Hella Good · Jun 05, 2006, 03:25 AM // 03:25

Maintainable enchantments are interesting but I'd rather think in terms of 25 nrg skills when creating a Sig build not something that will have questionable benefits.