Curse

Kijik Oni Hanryuu · Jun 26, 2006, 06:28 AM // 06:28

I am just notcing this but people have listed alot of the semi viable two skill tele-combo's but everyone is listing recall, I dun get it Return does the same thing, but no maintained enchant and it leaves any enemies near you crippled. Why do people like recall so much when return has extra effects and in the long run doesn't use as much energy. Just noticing something.

Kyle · Jun 26, 2006, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Alot easier to click the little box to disenchant than to find a teamate that is a safe distance away and within your aggro bubble and then aggro the skill. Because you wouldnt want to return the to warrior next to you now would you. With recall you know where ur going to end up.

Kijik Oni Hanryuu · Jun 26, 2006, 06:39 AM // 06:39

true true I usually would just search out the one with Mo next to their name, also return might actually be able to be used in a two man farm, just a thought.

ogami_ito · Jun 26, 2006, 09:39 AM // 09:39

Does return work if the team-mate is out of range? like in a large battle? I know that when you use AoD or any other shadow-step skill if you go beyond the range or there is something blocking, you go as far as you can in the direction towards where you started in.

Ruhern · Jun 26, 2006, 01:15 PM // 13:15

You have to be in range of your ally target to use Return. This makes the skill a lot more difficult to use and is not always the most efficient skill to use because of that limitation.

WildmouseX · Jun 26, 2006, 01:58 PM // 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kijik Oni Hanryuu

true true I usually would just search out the one with Mo next to their name, also return might actually be able to be used in a two man farm, just a thought.

alot of times in battle, you and your monk are going to move in oposite directions. putting him outside your range for return. leaveing you searching for a caster in your group that's in range and not getting pounded by a rusher, all while you are getting pounded.

with recall, the enchant will stay untill you and your target are about 2 screens away, like the rest of the enchants. furthermore, when you need to split due to takeing dmg you only have to double-click an enchant that is always located in the same place; unlike with return when your intended target is out of range you have to break concentration and search for someone who is.

recall can also be double cast on your monk and your war. so you can wait for your war to rush in and gather agro, then teleport to him and spike a foe, then drop out b4 any of them switch their agro onto you - like the poor mans version of AoD.

personaly, i like shadow of haste because your garenteed a retreat teleport, without you haveing to worry about clicking on anything - leaveing your full attention to your combo. just set you shadow arts to a level that gives you just enough time to run in and fire off your combo.

chicks boy · Jun 26, 2006, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Acutally i like return better, less energy, easy to use. when ur struck, teleport to ur monk or caster and u survive thus dealing combos to that hoe

Kijik Oni Hanryuu · Jun 26, 2006, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Wild you have a good point, I used shadow of haste when I henched my way wthrough the city. I couldn't use that though I use AoD because I tend to pressure my opponents a little bit. ALso what I like to do is stay in a fight long enough for AoD to recharge then just AoD to my next target. It's kinda fun wehn you jump to somebody who has been watching you and their like "ZOMG How did yu do dat!? Yu didn't tele bak! HAXXORZ!

Lambentviper · Jun 26, 2006, 10:31 PM // 22:31

well for return you could just press V on your keyboard to select a nearby team mate, but i enjoy Recall because you can cast it on every1 in your party!! and then really confuse the wammo chasing you

Kijik Oni Hanryuu · Jun 26, 2006, 10:38 PM // 22:38

my only concern with casting it on everyone is mad enogee degen, it woiuld worjk for distracting mobs in PvE, but wow Viper you brought back my dead topic, oh and Viper I LOVE the avatar did you do that yerself?

WildmouseX · Jun 26, 2006, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kijik Oni Hanryuu

Wild you have a good point, I used shadow of haste when I henched my way wthrough the city. I couldn't use that though I use AoD because I tend to pressure my opponents a little bit. ALso what I like to do is stay in a fight long enough for AoD to recharge then just AoD to my next target. It's kinda fun wehn you jump to somebody who has been watching you and their like "ZOMG How did yu do dat!? Yu didn't tele bak! HAXXORZ!

yes but AoD is a elite. return, recall, and shadow of haste are all regular skills so i was comapring them from their comon point. - i run shadow of haste on my E/A build, along with burning speed - so i can rush in on fire, at unexpected speeds, and add AoE dmg when i get there - then when haste ends at the end of my combo, i finish off with a fireball after the teleport.-- yet i run AoD on my A/N much like you've discribed. each build is going to require a different play style. - but out of all the teleport skills, return has the most disadvantages.

Kyle · Jun 27, 2006, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lambentviper

well for return you could just press V on your keyboard to select a nearby team mate, but i enjoy Recall because you can cast it on every1 in your party!! and then really confuse the wammo chasing you

Pressing V could be bad though. Most of the time the nearby teamate will be the warrior that is rubbing your shoulder. So return just basicly turns into caltrops at that point since your just going for the cripple and not much escape.

Bloodied Blade · Jun 27, 2006, 02:22 AM // 02:22

I don't even have recall on my assassin. I just find that with a little manipulation, return is just as valuable and doesn't cost me a pip of energy regen. I'll try recall though since now I need to revert to a different build.

Kijik Oni Hanryuu · Jun 27, 2006, 03:48 AM // 03:48

^.^ I am happy to see that I get alot of replies from my peers, oh ande guys I got the councillor title *does the happy wootsauce dance*

nitrile · Jun 27, 2006, 10:15 AM // 10:15

When I don't use AoD I prefer to use return, not recall. Simply because it's without the energy drain from keeping it active, and it's not vulnerable to shattering. Although there is the point of view that if your recall enchant is removed you'll be teleported to protect your ally (monk), in reality that shattering mesmer is probably nearer where you were in the first place. While return does need an ally in your standard spell range, I try to always be careful I'm never that isolated, regardless of what build I'm running. Return also has another one of those two-skill in one properties we like about AoD; it's an escape teleport, but it's also a cheaper caltrops.

Advantages:
Return: Can afford to use it in the midst of a battle you don't intend to run from. Relatively fast recharge. Use it while attacking a melee char who is chasing an ally, on that ally to cripple that attacker momentarily. On use, can be used on any ally you like depending on what the situation is - it is more versatile.
Recall: Can teleport you far further; safer in a retreat or other dangerous situation, assuming your ally keeps out of trouble. When there's running involved (in pvp contexts) it can get you around the map many times faster than any run-faster stance could alone.

Disadvantages:
Return: If you have been isolated it is of no use whatsoever. It will not save you from a herd of aatxe or luxons (or kurzicks).
Recall: 1en regen upkeep (may not be an issue depending on your build). Can be shattered unpredictably. Unpredictability is only good when you're causing it. For regular use, is pretty much only useful for escape when the fight is already lost and you find yourself overextended.

They're both potentially very good skills but I'd say they're both for quite different uses.

WildmouseX · Jun 27, 2006, 02:06 PM // 14:06

recall leaves the enchant on your ally, not on you... leaveing it ont your monk, who generaly stays way back from the fight, means that it is more likely that your going to get screwed that way useing AoD, then you are useing recall. - and if your recall is getting disenchanted, that means someone is targeting your monk, so it's best for you to be pulled back to go after the guy that is going after your monk anyway.

and again, you've ignored the big disadvantage of return, and that's hunting through your party list looking for someone in range, that's not getting pounded themselves, while your getting pounded on.

- furthermore, useing return after your combo sometimes leaves you without enough energy to cast it - as you spent it all in attacks. - and while you can use combos to keep your energy up, you sacrifice dmg for that. - recall can be thrown long b4 a fight, so you can fully charge back up and be ready for battle, and as soon as you drop it after your first attack, you get your pip back.

Spura · Jun 27, 2006, 02:13 PM // 14:13

To be frank, if you are rubbing shoulders with warriors, chances are monks are in spell range, because they are healing warriors.

WildmouseX · Jun 27, 2006, 02:16 PM // 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

To be frank, if you are rubbing shoulders with warriors, chances are monks are in spell range, because they are healing warriors.

true, but an assassin should be running around enemy caster lines, not rubbing sholders with wars. that's a death zone.

Spura · Jun 27, 2006, 02:44 PM // 14:44

No real difference in deadlyness. Running in caster lines makes you easy spike target from any offensive casters. Epecially in pve, when shadowstepping to Afflicted monk, you will likely get hit from several elementalists and afflicted rangers will be just a step away from blinding you.

At least in my experience, shadowstepping into caster lines in Pve was more deadly than attacking warriors. Not only was I instantly targeted by caster AI, some melee attackers also went back and attacked me nearly every time.
And for some reason any spells from lvl 28 monsters hurt a lot. Anyone receiving star burst in Raisu palace can confirm that.

Another reason why shadow stepping into caster lines is death wish in Pve is that you go out of monks' range. At least with henchman if you get hit by warriors you get healed, if you teleport too far, you often get spiked before you get healed. I know this is why some people use teleport skills to get back, but I rather go and take down frontlines first, which is not hard to do with some focus fire and AP build.

WildmouseX · Jun 27, 2006, 04:06 PM // 16:06

again everyone sets up and plays their characters a little diferently, what works for me, might not work for the way you play - and vise vera.

i haven't had a problem with the casters singleing me out, but i wait for the fight to start and everyone to pick their agro, takeing out any war's that rush my casters first - then i run in, and teleport out. - i'd suspect the problem of being a big target from shadowsteping in, is from teleporting ahead of your front line b4 the AI has had a chance to target your wars. - in theroy of teleporting assassins, they should be the last to engage in battle.

as far as getting out of monks range goes, i haven't found it to be a problem the way i play, because i get out of dodge as soon as my combo is finished and rarely lose 1/4 (or more) of my health. useing a ranged spell to finish off the target i spiked.

i've found in the way i play, that if the assassin takes out the caster line, it helps the tanks take out the ai tanks faster - less enemies damageing them means they fight more and heal themselves less. also, less healing from the AI monk for ther targets.

however, i also have a AoE build for my A/N that i operate in the front line as a meat tenderiser build. throwing mark of pain on a war, then comboing him and dealing out dmg across their whole line - this drops about 190 dmg across the whole front line, not enough to get a kill but it does make their monk heal all of their wars instead of just the 1 my tank is pounding on. - even with this build though, i drop the big dmg on the front line, then pull out and go for casters after my first assult.

so it does depend not only on how well you watch your self, but also how you approach fights. but to stay on topic; the bottom line is, out of return, recall, shadow of haste, and AoD - return has the most disadvantages, hence why most people don't use it.