Curse

Sab · Jun 09, 2006, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella

Short version:yes.
Long version: hell yes.

Fine print: you need all the enemies to be bunched up, you need hexes on your one tank, you need 20+ energy on one foe, and perhaps a spell or two to interrupt. Not to mention that the rest of your team needs to know how to spike.

Eaimirth Etaivella · Jun 09, 2006, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Just a skill to interrupt and 2 hexes, no problem.
2 shatter hex=240
2 energy surge=160
1 cry of frustration=44
bottom line=444

I'm sure the rest of the group, or a ss necro, can come up with the rest of the damage. This spike takes no longer than 5 seconds.
SS dps ratio=first 2 seconds 41~dps+stance usage, after first 2 seconds 81 dps +stance usage
assuming the enemies have 550 hp~ it will take about 7.5 seconds for them to hit the floor. Half the time of conjure's duration...from 1 ss. We can take another for the group of casters/rangers/whatever if you like. Although a tank can get them all bunched up quite easily I might add.

Sab · Jun 10, 2006, 02:38 AM // 02:38

I keep forgetting the Prophecies context in which you're discussing. In Factions:

- Most of the time you'll be facing a balanced group (e.g. 2-3 melee, 2-3 ranged, 2-3 casters/healers)
- They'll be spread out
- Many races don't rely on hexes, or when they do, two NPCs you're often forced to take with you (Mhenlo and Togo) will remove the hexes before you do
- Gathering aggro isn't straightforward - enemy mobs tend to go for different targets

Those are cases where conditional damage fails, and simple degen excels.

Eaimirth Etaivella · Jun 10, 2006, 03:04 AM // 03:04

If anyone can remove a hex before a mesmer they must have crazy psychic skills >.>
I agree that the AI is better in factions; and that enamies are more aggressive if you will in their assults; but in the beginning missions that I played it could still be controlled.
Yet; even if they spread out, killing a single target will prove more effective than damaging several as it most always will. PvE monks do not care about pressure, nor do they attempt to deal with it.
"Aggro-backlash" as I like to call it, still exists as the primary AI attack program. A target enters aggro range; casters/rangers will approach target and attack target just within shooting range. However "direct" class units will run past the aggro'er for about 1 aggro circle; hence the dubbing of "backlash". If they find new targets; they will latch onto these targets and focus attack on them, if not, they will return their attack to the aggro'er. Once this has been accomplished, the aggro'er should move towards range group one, usually the closest to him/her and will allow the fastest killing. Two benefits as always.

Conditional damage is fine; just as long as either choice is a bad one. I would like to note that phantasm is a conditional skill as well; it must stay the duration of the hex.

Sab · Jun 10, 2006, 05:09 AM // 05:09

Yes, spike damage is good, and degen can assist in doing that. You can apply degen to off-targets which lowers their HP, and make spiking them that much quicker after the called target is dead.

And technically every skill is conditional. I was referring to the highly conditional spells, namely Shatter Hex, which requires a hex on your tank to function, and Cry, which requires the target to use a skill and needs you to interrupt it (not to mention that Cry's damage is pathetic, and should be used only for AoE interrupting). Having degen stay on a target for its duration is much less conditional than that, and even if it is removed prematurely (or the target dies), the degen has still done part of its job.

Avarre · Jun 10, 2006, 08:14 AM // 08:14

Not to mention that spikes are less effective in cantha with mobs that hard res, packs of Jade mesmers that spam power return on everything, ritualist mobs, etc.

Using all energy in a conditional manner is excessively ineffective, especially as Jade knights don't care about surges when they're coming to unleash triplechop-cyclone spike on your team (possibly the most co-ordinated mob packs ever, esp. with chained dragon stomps right after that).

Eaimirth Etaivella · Jun 10, 2006, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Using all energy in a conditional manner is excessively ineffective, especially as Jade knights don't care about surges when they're coming to unleash triplechop-cyclone spike on your team (possibly the most co-ordinated mob packs ever, esp. with chained dragon stomps right after that).

When I played factions the tank method I described worked very well vs the jades; maybe it was just the beginning jades or maybe it was fixed. Someone fill me in on that if they could.

I'm not mentioning "spike damage" just quick damage; there is a difference.
If we had 1 warrior and 7 mes-those 7 mes could easily cast e surge and kill the entire opposing group. Sure it would need to be well coordinated, possibly vent, but it could work...been done actually. My point being is that degen is necessarly ineffective due to "the target must be alive x amount of time" clause, and the damage could be put to better use on the called target, rather than the mesmer just damaging enemy units at random.

But if your group can't call targets...and they cannot coordinate damage for some silly reason, and everything is a chaotic blitz cause vent went down and both monks just died and the dog outside the window will not shutup the power went out and the only reason you are online is because you're using a laptop and the neighbor's internet is still up and you are using their hotspot instead of your by some happenstance and the whole thing doesn't make sence at all and the chaos is overwhelming and you cannot concentrate on squat and the same thing happened to all the other group members as well...

Then blind random damage assisted with MoP might be useful; but only in chaotic scenarios in pve(like that mentioned above; exaggerated alittle bit though, maybe some pugs...)

Avarre · Jun 10, 2006, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella

.
If we had 1 warrior and 7 mes-those 7 mes could easily cast e surge and kill the entire opposing group.

7 eles could do that too... or 7 necros with DE... or 7 rangers... or 7 rits with gaze / rift... or 7 wars with triplechop... or 7 monks with signet... sorry assassins, nobody likes you.

Quote:

cause vent went down

You use vent while grouping normally? Cancel that, you need vent in pve at all?

Eaimirth Etaivella · Jun 10, 2006, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Sucks to be an assassin primary.
Meh makes fow clearing more tolerable.

Avarre · Jun 10, 2006, 03:11 PM // 15:11

I'd doubt that, after clearing fow with 3 people we were raving lunatics on chat, having voice at that time would have been... odd... your eardrums can only take so many 'ZOMG ORLY!!' after all

Eaimirth Etaivella · Jun 10, 2006, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Hey all mesmer fow groups on vent ftw!

Avarre · Jun 11, 2006, 07:54 AM // 07:54

1 heal 1 prot 1 tank 1 dom 1 illu 1 interrupt/dom 2 nuke.

Works

Lotsa other stuff possible though.

Eaimirth Etaivella · Jun 11, 2006, 01:34 PM // 13:34

Actually ours was much more simple;
one tank-must be stupid...
one mesmer running spell breaker-must be really stupid...
Everyone else-bring energy surge rofl
-and arcane echo
-and arcane mimicary

6x2x2=24 surges or 24x80=well decent non-flee-triggering-aoedamage =/

SpeedyKQ · Jun 15, 2006, 08:48 PM // 20:48

One important difference between the two continents is the bosses. In Tyria, hexes last half as long on bosses, but bosses cast at normal speed. In Cantha, hexes run for the full duration but bosses cast twice as fast.

So interrupt heavy builds are better in Tyria, and hex heavy builds are better in Cantha. I enjoy Cantha more for this reason, but it is a matter of taste.

Also, in Cantha you get to buy your skills WHEN YOU WANT THEM instead of waiting through 2/3rds of the game, and to me this is a big plus.

Avarre · Jun 16, 2006, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella

Actually ours was much more simple;
one tank-must be stupid...
one mesmer running spell breaker-must be really stupid...
Everyone else-bring energy surge rofl
-and arcane echo
-and arcane mimicary

6x2x2=24 surges or 24x80=well decent non-flee-triggering-aoedamage =/

Energy surge is stupid.

You could just play a me/e and have hugely higher dps, rather than building a damn shrine to surge and making everyone run it. Esp as your build has no monks, and clear disregard to the capabilities of a mesmer tank (which aren't really that restricted tbh).

Francis Demeules · Jun 16, 2006, 02:09 AM // 02:09

For me, E-Surger Mesmers in PvE is a little... useless. Not every monsters have 64 high energy though.

Eaimirth Etaivella · Jun 16, 2006, 03:27 AM // 03:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Energy surge is stupid.

You could just play a me/e and have hugely higher dps, rather than building a damn shrine to surge and making everyone run it. Esp as your build has no monks, and clear disregard to the capabilities of a mesmer tank (which aren't really that restricted tbh).

Firstly if you notice I said 6x...which means that there are two unaccounted for persons who did not use surge.

Secondly off I never said we all surged the same target; with "within the area" aoe range we really don't have to.

Thirdly; we did this for fun, it was highly successful, so who really gives a damn? We sure don't, we had fun, and most importantly it worked.

Avarre · Jun 16, 2006, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaimirth

Actually ours was much more simple;
one tank-must be stupid... [Why?]
one mesmer running spell breaker-must be really stupid... [And is]
Everyone else-bring energy surge rofl [..zz]

Show me those unacounted people, hmm?

Don't try the 'we had fun so it was good' point either, because it won't stand up to anything. Else IWAY haters would have died out a lonnng time ago.