Curse

{integral} · Feb 05, 2006, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Cleave, an elite axe attack you capture in the Southern Shiverpeaks, progresses in exactly the same way as Power Attack, a skill you acquire in Old Ascalon.

Cleave: At 0 Axe Mastery, you hit +10 damage.
At 12 Axe Mastery, you hit +26 damage.

Power Attack: At 0 Strength, you hit +10 damage.
At 12 Strength you hit +26 damage.

The only discernible differences between these skills are: Power Attack can be used with any melee weapon, and Power Attack costs 5 energy and has a 4 second recharge, while Cleave uses 4 adrenaline.

My question is this: Why is Cleave an elite skill when you can get what is basically the same skill for much less effort?

Dodo The Extinct · Feb 05, 2006, 03:26 PM // 15:26

It is supposed to go with the other axe attacks that costs adrenaline.

I think it was nerfed or something.

Draken · Feb 05, 2006, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Well energy is in short supply on a warrior and adrenaline is not plus if you useing frenzy or any IAS skill it will speed up adrenaline gain. Not saying this is a great skill but the consistant damage over time is high enough to gain it elite status.

True Vengeance · Feb 05, 2006, 03:45 PM // 15:45

not to mention, adding more attribute points into your weapon mastery rather than strength is more beneficial dmg wise.

Cleave being axed based, makes it more convenient.

Mr D J · Feb 05, 2006, 04:00 PM // 16:00

adrenaline is so easy to gain with frenzy/flurry and its only 4 adrenaline so u can spam it and with lots of axe mastery, it deals lots of dmg

Skuld · Feb 05, 2006, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Yep, adrenaline makes it an elite version of executioner's strike

Rogmar · Feb 05, 2006, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skuld

Yep, adrenaline makes it an elite version of executioner's strike

Add Deep Wound to the "elite version of executioner's" and make it cost only 3 more adrenaline and you have Eviscerate...
This skill needs a big fix.

audioaxes · Feb 05, 2006, 05:22 PM // 17:22

cleave is very good in pve

glountz · Feb 05, 2006, 06:19 PM // 18:19

I'd rather use Battle Rage (speed + huge adrenalin boost) to launch Exec/PEnet/Dismember more often than cleave than to use sprint and cleave.
It deserves to get a little more damage output for an elite.

zoozoc · Feb 05, 2006, 06:24 PM // 18:24

really cleave isnt underpowered in any sense, its just that deep wound is so powerful. If you look at it dmg wise, cleave is a spammable high dps skill and eviscrate is more of a spike kinda skill, but then since deep wound is so overpowered it totally blows cleave away.

Mandy Memory · Feb 06, 2006, 05:43 AM // 05:43

so now deepwound is overpowered?

haha, i think you just meant powerful. but anyways eviscerate/pen/executioners will outdamge cleave/pen/executioners plus you get a deepwound and it comes in a nasty spike instead of a steady flow

tafy69 · Feb 06, 2006, 06:45 AM // 06:45

Yeah deep wound is really amazing condition, +100 virtual damage anyone?

Sinborn · Feb 06, 2006, 07:54 AM // 07:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by tafy69

Yeah deep wound is really amazing condition, +100 virtual damage anyone?

If you feel really cruel, you toss on scourge healing along with it. I couldn't imagine how futile it would be to try and heal that poor, unfortunate soul who has to experience such. . . such subversion!

Poison Ivy · Feb 06, 2006, 07:58 AM // 07:58

It costs only 4 AD, which makes it...good.

Savio · Feb 06, 2006, 08:33 AM // 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mandy Memory

so now deepwound is overpowered?

haha, i think you just meant powerful. but anyways eviscerate/pen/executioners will outdamge cleave/pen/executioners plus you get a deepwound and it comes in a nasty spike instead of a steady flow

Actually, Cleave + Pen + Exe outdamages Evi + Pen + Exe. In the following article, pre-Cleave buff, Cleave outperforms Evi by 0.01 damage; dunno by how much better Cleave does now.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=49874

But higher DPS is irrelevant as spike damage > DPS, so Eviscerate and Deep Wound win hands down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poison Ivy

It costs only 4 AD, which makes it...good.

No, because it means it drains adrenaline from the rest of your adrenaline skills, which means you can't use other adrenal skills as much. So combos like the ones above are hampered by spamming a low Adrenaline skill.

kvndoom · Feb 06, 2006, 08:42 AM // 08:42

When I first capped Cleave, I ran it with Penetrating Blow on my skillbar. Cleave was always ready first (duh!) and did considerably more damage. Next mission PB wasn't even on my skillbar. To make Cleave a non-elite, Penetrating would just have to be removed from the game. Both of those as non-elites would be redundant, with one being so much better than the other.

RotteN · Feb 06, 2006, 08:52 AM // 08:52

cleave is an elite for the obvious reason you shouldn't be able to combine both continuous high DPS and very good spike damage on your skillbar.

evi+cleave+exec = overpowered

Former Ruling · Feb 06, 2006, 01:45 PM // 13:45

With no Adrenal help test the Dmg on Cleave+Exe and Evi+Exe over about a minute.

Cleave will outdmg it by far dmg wise, and even outrank it little with Deep Wound factored in.

But in PvP that doesnt matter - Its about how much dmg you can set on in a short amount of time. This is why Evi "owns'"cleave - it does more dmg in the first attacks.

Cleave is much more effective (IMO) in PvE.

tafy69 · Feb 06, 2006, 07:26 PM // 19:26

how about buffing cleave so it cant be blocked or evaded? would make it very usefull then eh

Rajamic · Feb 07, 2006, 10:56 AM // 10:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by lunchbreak

Cleave, an elite axe attack you capture in the Southern Shiverpeaks, progresses in exactly the same way as Power Attack, a skill you acquire in Old Ascalon.

Cleave: At 0 Axe Mastery, you hit +10 damage.
At 12 Axe Mastery, you hit +26 damage.

Power Attack: At 0 Strength, you hit +10 damage.
At 12 Strength you hit +26 damage.

The only discernible differences between these skills are: Power Attack can be used with any melee weapon, and Power Attack costs 5 energy and has a 4 second recharge, while Cleave uses 4 adrenaline.

My question is this: Why is Cleave an elite skill when you can get what is basically the same skill for much less effort?

There's one other big difference: Only Warrior-primes can get any worthwhile use out of Power Attack, since it is Strength-based.

Elites aren't ususally elite because they are great skills. Typically, it is either that it is a more powerful version of a normal skill, or that it combines with some other skill too well (resulting in both skills getting tagged).

My guess is that Cleave + Battle Rage is way too powerful for a pressure build. You could use Cleave every other swing with that, and each swing would be 1.33 seconds apart. There'd be almost no downtime on this ever. Every other attack being +26 or more would be beastly.