Curse

Banebow · Oct 11, 2005, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Well, I have been using a spike damage KD warrior in competition arenas for a while now, and figured I would post a comparision between aftershock and holy strike, the two skills that a spike hammer warrior would consider for his damage spike (if he or she intends to use one, rather than just hammer attacks).

Please keep in mind that this is not here to tell you which is better, mearly to compare the two and let everyone make an educated choice. (and, of course, tell you which I prefer

)

I normaly run with 10 in the attribute linked to the skill (smiting prayers/earth magic)

So first, the Pros:

Aftershock:
Large damage to low-armor targets.
Area-of-Effect.

Holy Strike:
Same damage to all targets.
Small aftercast.
5 energy cost.
Short cooldown.

Cons:

Aftershock:
10 energy cost.
Horrible aftercast.
Long cooldown.

Holy Strike:
Fairly small damage.

As you can see, aftershock has more downsides than Holy Strike, and fewer good things about it. However, the downside of Holy Strike can more than make up for this, because as a spike warrior, dps is a big deal, and aftershock makes a wonderfull final-hit spell, doing (at my attribute spread) 44 more damage than Holy Strike, 79 + 45 compared to 40 + 40. However, if you can chain knockdowns fast enough, then the 8 second cooldown on holy strike will suddenly become a great thing indeed, as you will be able to use it much more often. This is also due to it costing 1/2 as much as aftershock.

What it comes down to is this: Do you want to risk not killing the target with your spike, but saving some energy and being able to get right back to attacking, or do you want to stand a better chance of killing your target, but not being able to spike as often and not being able to follow through the spike with a strong attack? Or perhaps you want neither, and will go 16 hammer 13-14-15 strength.

My preference is Holy Strike, because the hammer swing after it usualy does about 40+ damage, and gives me one strike of adrenaline, so it makes up for aftershocks punch, and I can spike more often for less energy. I doubt I will go back to aftershock, except to continue comparisions of the two, or if my guild had a strange combo to try. Plus, with 10 smiting prayers, you can delve deeper in to the smiting skill line and see if there is anything in there to aid you. Scourge Healing anyone?

Thoughts? Comments?
-Banebow

stefan16 · Oct 11, 2005, 07:10 AM // 07:10

Yes, since holy strike was buffed its a nice skill, i tried it also works great, also its armor ignoring offcourse

But now there another skills called Smite that does less damage but costs 10E, they need to buff those skills also.. have a look its funny how weird powerefull this smite skill is compared to the other who were not buffed

[FnG] Lazz · Oct 11, 2005, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Personally I use Aftershock and Whirlwind. This is because aftershock does additional damage when enemies are knocked down

Of course the downside is that 1. the combination of both skills takes 20 energy (which for a warrior, isnt good) and 2. Having to have an extra skill equiped just to make aftershock work more effectively means one less space on your skillbar. Though if anyone has any better idea's I'd like to hear them

entropy · Oct 11, 2005, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Aftershock only if running earth shaker which is da bomb now. 70 dmg to many targets is worth it. Otherwise holy strike ftw

.

stefan16 · Oct 11, 2005, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by [FnG] Lazz

Personally I use Aftershock and Whirlwind. This is because aftershock does additional damage when enemies are knocked down

Holy strike also does additional damage vs knocked down ftw

Banebow · Oct 11, 2005, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Quote:

Personally I use Aftershock and Whirlwind. This is because aftershock does additional damage when enemies are knocked down

If you are using aftershock on a warrior, you are usualy a hammer warrior, and one using knockdown skills like hammer bash, which knocks down.

smurfhunter · Oct 12, 2005, 01:34 AM // 01:34

i barely have time since i use crushing blow

.__.

idk id say aftershock is better simply because you spend the attributes in something more usefull to your team, for example you can take a ward against foes.

maybe

NatalieD · Oct 22, 2005, 10:04 AM // 10:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

i barely have time since i use crushing blow

.__.

The idea is to go Devastating Hammer -> Crushing Blow -> Hammer Bash -> Aftershock.

(Substitute Earthshaker, Heavy Blow, and/or Holy Strike depending on preferences.)

Banebow · Oct 22, 2005, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatalieD

The idea is to go Devastating Hammer -> Crushing Blow -> Hammer Bash -> Aftershock.

I actualy prefer Devastating Hammer -> Crushing Blow -> Mighty Blow -> Hammer Bash -> Aftershock/Holy Strike. The speed boost from frenzy provides a fast enough attack rate to fit this in, if you are using stoneskin gauntlets.

Zenoi X · Oct 26, 2005, 10:25 PM // 22:25

They both have their advantages, however I'd personally go with Holy Strike. Holy Strike is not as good as Aftershock is, however smiting has always worked good with my warrior (Judge's Insight, Shield of Judgement, etc.). Don't simply think about which single skill is better, think about which skill type goes best with knockdown. Smiting does use a lot of energy, however, so earth magic might be better. It's all circumstantial.

Banebow · Oct 26, 2005, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zenoi X

Smiting does use a lot of energy, however, so earth magic might be better.

For earth, however, you will probably be running expensive wards, so they both cost fairly heavily on the warrior.

NatalieD · Oct 27, 2005, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banebow

For earth, however, you will probably be running expensive wards, so they both cost fairly heavily on the warrior.

Why would you use wards on a pvp warrior? You're going to be running all over the place...

The Muffen Man · Oct 27, 2005, 04:45 PM // 16:45

This is what I use with my hammer warrior and its pretty effective half the time I dont even get a chance to use aftershock cause they are already dead

rez, wild blow, sprint, frenzy, devastating hammer, crushing blow, HEAVY BLOW (at 15 hammer it gives + 30 and knocks down thats in combination with dev hammer) if using a different elite then hammer bash, aftershock and a zealous upgrade I never runout of energy unless Im interrupted by those pesky rangers but then I bring wild blow to end there stances and to end tf axe warriors stance as well is pretty funny actualy rez and wild blow never leave my skill bar
wild blow is great

entropy · Oct 27, 2005, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Bah heavy blow is pretty bad. Its a conditional knockdown and usually conditions are removed pretty quick so your pretty screwed if its gone.

audioaxes · Oct 27, 2005, 11:34 PM // 23:34

and hammer bash is so much better because omg it knocks me down with no extra damage im going to die

entropy · Oct 28, 2005, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Yea it does what its supposed to do whereas heavy blow doesn't much of the time. And WTF are you talking about? Are you trying to solo monks now?
Really knockdowns aren't even about damage. If I could create a hammer warrior that knocked down 4 times in a row but with no dmg I would do it. Its about actually knocking them down NOT dmg. Axes outdamage hammer's by far so go with them if you want to do extra dmg. You don't seem to get that.

NatalieD · Oct 28, 2005, 05:31 AM // 05:31

But it's not just about knocking them down. If all you cared about was disabling them, you'd be better off as a mesmer. Hammers are for disabling and damaging. Kind of in between mesmers and axe warriors.

audioaxes · Oct 28, 2005, 07:19 AM // 07:19

uh yes you still need damage if you want to break the treshhold for the kill. If someone randomly knocks me down with hammer bash i lol, get up, and carry on with my business.
now lets see about this situational condition that makes heavy bash so worthless:
so you do devastating -> crushing -> heavy..... do you know how many times someone actually removed the weakness before i hit them with heavy? I never even remember seeing this happen so ill say less than 3 times out of 100 combos. So is ditching the crucial extra damage of heavy blow for hammer bash just to remove the very small chance someone is going to remove weakness in less than 2 seconds?
ok now...the second argument..... so somehow your devastating hammer misses. This is not the end of the world. So what if you could still do a hammer bash you missed a crucial knockdown in your combo. The monk will just get up. And besides whatever enchant/hex/stance that had you miss devastating will most likely still be ineffect when you do hammer bash so you may still miss that anyway.

The Muffen Man · Oct 28, 2005, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioaxes

uh yes you still need damage if you want to break the treshhold for the kill. If someone randomly knocks me down with hammer bash i lol, get up, and carry on with my business.
now lets see about this situational condition that makes heavy bash so worthless:
so you do devastating -> crushing -> heavy..... do you know how many times someone actually removed the weakness before i hit them with heavy? I never even remember seeing this happen so ill say less than 3 times out of 100 combos. So is ditching the crucial extra damage of heavy blow for hammer bash just to remove the very small chance someone is going to remove weakness in less than 2 seconds?
ok now...the second argument..... so somehow your devastating hammer misses. This is not the end of the world. So what if you could still do a hammer bash you missed a crucial knockdown in your combo. The monk will just get up. And besides whatever enchant/hex/stance that had you miss devastating will most likely still be ineffect when you do hammer bash so you may still miss that anyway.

The man speakes wisdom

lyra_song · Oct 28, 2005, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Unless the player is using an anti-knockdown stance, its almost impossible to remove the weakness in time to prevent the knockdown from heavy blow unless its a seperate monk using mend ailment. Even then, ill knock you out of your stance.

In random arena (where theres less chance of a monk), getting caught with devastating usually means that its the end. Knockdown, weakness, deepwound, then another knockdown as soon as you get up and then aftershock. If you survive that, i usually save a 5 energy cost attack to finish you off with wild blow (guranteed critical).

on topic:

Im gonna go experiment with holy strike thanks to this post