Curse

Wretchman Drake · Jan 31, 2006, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by holden

jesus. i believe wretchman to be a younger person. so believe me, i'm not flaming him and it's nothing personal.
but there are a lot of younger persons playing this game and they deserve to know both sides of the story. does the guild wars community really want the next generation of mesmers carrying around ether lord? thinking that this is the best way to deny energy?
if i posted a build and said things like 'quickest and most efficient shutdown build' or 'one of the best Energy Denial builds' i would expect someone to let me know when i was way off base.
i appreciate you sticking up for wretchman. but if you put a build on this forum you're opening it up for criticism.

this build isn't very good. ether lord is terrible. if you can do the math and prove me otherwise please do.

ill wash wretchman's dog

the problem is that your idiotic critisicm doesnt make sense, thats what. you are blindly misleading readers to thinking this is a horrible build. just screw off if you are gonna be a ***** about any of my builds. I know they perform well and thanks to them that I have my 125,000 faction, and half of that was in the summer, when you got like 5 faction for killing things, and i havent had my own computer in 3 months.

Avarre · Jan 31, 2006, 11:28 PM // 23:28

You say you can shut down any monk with your insp energy drain build. That's fine, but I can do the same with my dom build, and kill them with it at the same time. If the monk swaps to -5e wep and a shield, they have essentially 17-22 energy that you cant touch, if they time your spells.

As I said before, if you mirror this build with domination, the first salvo would cause the reults of :

40 energy drained : 24 energy drained
240 damage. : no damage

I'm not even counting lord because it will be removed with CoP or whatever in <2 seconds.

And once spells recharge, the mindwrack-spam begins. You'd run out of energy, sure, but after the first round you don't need that much and its BETTER to burn slightly slower (wrack burn wrack surge etc...) for more spell damage.

In any case, after your first salvo you can only use Tap and Drain once in 30s while stuff is recharging. That won't make a monk blink... Drop some insp, get some dom, and sub in SoWeariness...

holden · Jan 31, 2006, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wretchman Drake

the problem is that your idiotic critisicm doesnt make sense, thats what. you are blindly misleading readers to thinking this is a horrible build. just screw off if you are gonna be a ***** about any of my builds. I know they perform well and thanks to them that I have my 125,000 faction, and half of that was in the summer, when you got like 5 faction for killing things, and i havent had my own computer in 3 months.

and i havent had my own computer in 3 months

Wretchman Drake · Feb 01, 2006, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

You say you can shut down any monk with your insp energy drain build. That's fine, but I can do the same with my dom build, and kill them with it at the same time. If the monk swaps to -5e wep and a shield, they have essentially 17-22 energy that you cant touch, if they time your spells.

As I said before, if you mirror this build with domination, the first salvo would cause the reults of :

40 energy drained : 24 energy drained
240 damage. : no damage

I'm not even counting lord because it will be removed with CoP or whatever in <2 seconds.

And once spells recharge, the mindwrack-spam begins. You'd run out of energy, sure, but after the first round you don't need that much and its BETTER to burn slightly slower (wrack burn wrack surge etc...) for more spell damage.

In any case, after your first salvo you can only use Tap and Drain once in 30s while stuff is recharging. That won't make a monk blink... Drop some insp, get some dom, and sub in SoWeariness...

i can see where you are going with this. however, my buddy plays a build like urs, dom and insp, and i think he just in the end does a little bit more dmg and i suck out a little more energy

Avarre · Feb 01, 2006, 12:15 AM // 00:15

It all evens out after they burn their last bit of energy to try and heal themselves

Vaga · Feb 01, 2006, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Hes using all these spells to deny about the same amount as would have been done using domination, althought the domination spells have a much faster recharge & deal damage. Apart from this, with many other energy denial builds you have room for some other skills like consume corpse, windbourne speed....

The fact is this is just a mediocre energy denial build and not "one of the best Energy Denial builds ever"

You can see he has barely thought it out by saying he has 16 fast casting and 16 inspiration...you cant have both. Best you can have is 15 of one 16 of the other, which means you have -150hp from sup runes compared to domination energy denial builds that use no superior runes other than vigor.

Wretchman Drake · Feb 01, 2006, 02:39 AM // 02:39

well then forgive my c0ckiness. yea it needs work, but its a start for me. ill make it uber, ull see.

Neo-LD · Feb 01, 2006, 03:02 AM // 03:02

Good monks swap to empty hands (or better yet, negative energy focus) and wait out the combo, then switch back, OoB, and come out the other end with ~25 energy. Keep in mind, all of your draining spells arent even half way recharged yet and you are at ~0 energy because you just used ether lord. Who got energy drained, anyways?

Well, thats what would happen if you tried that combo on me or any other veteran monk, but against an average kid your build should do fine...outside of the fact that it deals 0 damage.

Tarot Ribos · Feb 01, 2006, 03:17 AM // 03:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wretchman Drake

...in random arenas

And that explains all. Any half-brained build does well in random arenas.

Yeah, and then there's the whole thing about this not actually keeping someone shut down... Energy Trap, Drain, and Ether Lord all have obscenely long recharge times. And Spirit Shackles only works if they attack. Last I checked, most monks don't need to attack.

Adrenaline warrior runs up to you. You Spirit Shackle him, and he's now down to zero energy. That still doesn't stop him from going Penetrating Chop-> Cleave -> Dismember -> Axe Twist -> Penetrating -> Cleave again on you. And that's not even the best axe build possible.

Point is, you can drain a whole bunch of energy off, make people mad and target you, and then you're screwed. You have no damage sources in this build.

Two April Mornings · Feb 01, 2006, 03:22 AM // 03:22

i tend to pack along guilt/shame - those are good while u r taking away the nrg.
Ether Lord FTW though, my fav. skill

agentblade · Feb 01, 2006, 05:30 AM // 05:30

I'm still curious how u can keep multiple targets drained of energy the whole day as u so mentioned.. and someone is wise just because he supports your point? That's very narrow minded don't you think?

How can u say the recharge doesn't happen when the fact is it does? every skill has a recharge.. and 30 secs even with the 20% chance of recharge being halved is long.

Ether lord without a cover hex wun work.. it's a hex and most monks will just remove it..

I think the biggest flaw in ur build is that you based it on lousy monks. Lousy monks doesn't need to be shut down cos they will die easily even without a shutdown.. The point of shutting down a monk is because he is good at healing his team mates and u need to stop him from doing what he does.

Making builds to counter lousy monk builds is very bad.. you're not exploring ur fullest potiential. When u make a build make it such that you can counter good players/builds. Only then can do say u're good..

I have a feeling ur build is pre mesmer nerf, it was then that e-drain and e-tap were the uber e-denial skills, thus the nerf.. but I'm not a wise person so I never will know will i?

ps: I'm not flaming u, just that ur statements have just been ridiculous most of the time..

agentblade · Feb 01, 2006, 05:35 AM // 05:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wretchman Drake

well then forgive my c0ckiness. yea it needs work, but its a start for me. ill make it uber, ull see.

regarding a "uber" build.. i have bad news for u.. There is NO such thing as an uber build.. If u do find a uber build it's best to keep it to urself cos Anet will nerf it down the moment some build is uber.. think e-drain, smiting, etc..

The point of GW if u haven't already known is not in the builds alone but rather in the skill of the players and more importantly the teamwork of the team.. u can be a super uber player but if ur team members suck to the core u have no hope of winning.. think War Machines, they used normal builds but how can they win? it's in the way they communicate with each other, the way they support and move.. it's more than the build that makes a player uber..

Wretchman Drake · Feb 01, 2006, 05:41 AM // 05:41

in uber, meaning good, not "OH THIS BUILD PWNS13H123 U S-0 HARD N STUFF LIKE IT BEST BUILD ARGHHHHHHH"....

...i just meant it can do some good. we'll see.

agentblade · Feb 01, 2006, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wretchman Drake

in uber, meaning good, not "OH THIS BUILD PWNS13H123 U S-0 HARD N STUFF LIKE IT BEST BUILD ARGHHHHHHH"....

...i just meant it can do some good. we'll see.

oh..so it can do some good only? hmm..not so good as u made it sound earlier on suddenly..

Try this build..
FC 9
dom 16
Insp 11 (or so..)
1. mind wrack
2. energy surge
3. energy burn
4. shame
5. signet of weariness
6. signet of humility
7. mantra of inscription
8. rez

U can kill and suck his energy at the same time.. kinda like killing two birds with one stone..

But just so that I'm not being biased or what I'm going to try out ur build to see for myself how it performs when i have the time.

Lady Lozza · Feb 01, 2006, 06:40 AM // 06:40

EDIT: I should probably read the full page before posting

My bad

I'm sure I've posted it in another thread somewhere but the point of using e-drain in most builds is e-lord.
Now I know a lot mesmers don't like it, but I have found e-lord quite useful in certain situations.

Avarre · Feb 01, 2006, 07:55 AM // 07:55

For domination builds, elord is counterproductive as you want them to regen a little energy so that your burns hit harder.

My build (posted on forum before)

11 + 1 + 3 dom
11 + 1 insp
10 + 1 fast cast

Energy Burn
Energy Surge {e}
Signet of Weariness
Signet of Humility
Leech signet
Mantra of Inscriptions
Mind Wrack
Res sig.

14 Dom gives -10 burns, 12 insp gives permanent elite lockdown and decent recharge on signets. Works for me

agentblade · Feb 01, 2006, 02:09 PM // 14:09

For energy denial there are a variety of ways to do it from what i've seen..

One is the surge-burn route where u burn off their energy, doing dmg as u go along..

Two is the Panic-malise-ether lord build where u dun drain their energy but u prevent them from regaining it..

Three is the signet route which is similar to the surge-burn build but uses signets instead..

I guess all three are equally useful and really depends on how u use it. Why pple dun like panic-malise-ether lord is because they are hexes and good monks know how to easily remove hexes. that can be countered with having a hex team build where the monk is stacked with so many hexes it's impossible to remove. Another counter to this build is weapon swapping, which some pple say u put mind wrack in to make the monk think twice about dropping their energy to zero..

I guess it all works, just a matter of how u use ur spells and how u fit in ur team..

I'm trying to come up with new ways of denying energy.. kinda bored with surging all the time

sno · Feb 04, 2006, 09:00 PM // 21:00

I find shutdown to be much more effective against monks.. Using drain enchant>backfire>parasitic bond (or arcane conundrum, but thats a ~1s cast)>shame and then interupting whatever hex removal he has will effectively shut down almost any monk for quite awhile. He'll be all reved up and ready to heal when your backfire comes back, and you can start the cycle all over again. Since this combo only requires 4 skills, I usually run it with a bunch of interupts (P.Block ftw.) I usually use pblock more on the eles or necros though, since it's nearly impossible to pblock boon prots, and they won't be useless without 1 attribute, although most ele's or necros will stick mostly to one attribute. I also played around with glyph of renewal as the elite, which worked out nice, but I prefer P.Block.