Curse

Wretchman Drake · Jan 31, 2006, 05:24 AM // 05:24

Mesmer (secondary doesn't matter, pick Warrior if you want to be left alone a bit (IW))

Attributes:
Fast Casting: 15
Inspiration Magic: 16

Rogues Armor

Spells:
1.) Arcane Echo
2.) Energy Drain {E}
3.) Energy Tap
4.) Ether Lord
5.) Drain Enchantment
6.) Spirit Shackles
7.) Ether Feast
8.) Rez Sig

STRAGETY: Cast Arcane Echo, and cast Energy Drain twice on a monk, so in less than 3 seconds, that's already 20 energy gone.

Then add the finishing touches with Energy Tap and Ether Lord. At this point, you should start focusing on another target because in less than about 5 seconds the monk has been rendered completely useless. Not only that, but you should constantly be up at near full energy if not already! Next target, the Ranger!

Rangers without energy are pretty much done. Just Spirit Shackles them, and keep sapping their energy until Ether Lord comes back. Cast that on the Ranger with Spirit Shackles, and at this point you can go check up on the monk.

In case Warriors ever charge you, just throw up Spirit Shackles and perhaps Arcane Echo Ether Feast and you should be fine.

This build will be tweaked for near perfection.

Lady Lozza · Jan 31, 2006, 05:42 AM // 05:42

This is rather similar to the build I use, the main difference being that I mix some dom. spells in:

1. Arcane Echo
2. Energy Burn
3. Signet of Weariness
4. Signet of Humility/Arcane Conudrum/*
5. Ether Lord
6. Energy Drain {E}
7. Ether Feast
8. Res

I play around with spot #4, sometimes I take Power Leak.
The only problem of course, is BiP, however I've found that most teams do not have a battery in the arena - which bothers me somewhat when I play my monk :s

Vaga · Jan 31, 2006, 10:37 AM // 10:37

How are you draining 20 energy with no points in dom magic? If thats a typo won't you be shutdown incredibly easy with almost no fast casting?

Siliconwafer · Jan 31, 2006, 11:17 AM // 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wretchman Drake

STRAGETY: Cast Arcane Echo, and cast Energy Drain twice on a monk, so in less than 3 seconds, that's already 20 energy gone bye bye. HOLY ****!!!

Then add the finishing touches with Energy Tap and Ether Lord. At this point, you should start focusing on another target because in less than about 5 seconds the monk has been rendered completely useless. Not only that, but you should constantly be up at near full energy if not already! Next target, the Ranger!
<snip>
I love this build because it's almost fullproof. So many things you can do to totally change the outcome of the battle. As long as your team can dish decent damage, you should win. Best part, it's the quickest and most efficient shutdown build. I mean come on, shutting down a monk completely in 5 seconds is pretty nice to do, especially when they're useless for about 20 seconds or so.

Oh, dear me.
In all reality, only the most inexperienced of monks will fall victim to this combo. Truly. You sap the monk's first energy pool of ~40 energy. What then? What if the monk switches to +15/-1 energy focus item(s), as any self respectable PvP monk should have-and then cast something like OoB? In this case, the monk is not shut down at all.

Personally, I would expect a competent monk to be shut down for 1.5 seconds MAX after you finish casting Ether Lord. Certainly a tad annoying, but hardly an uber shutdown build.

With your build, you cannot keep a monk on low energy. E-Drain and E-Tap have huge cooldown times (30s), which makes it very undesirable to have only one (two if you count the Arc.Echo) copy of them on a build.

With this sort of aim, combined with this sort of build, you should be aiming at keeping a monk at low energies. Focus swapping-ignoring the fact that half of the CA monks don't know what this means-will fool this beast for sure.

Maybe before the E-Drain/E-Tap skill balance, this would have worked. But definitely not now. I'm sorry, but Lady Lozza's build, IMO, is better.

Avarre · Jan 31, 2006, 11:31 AM // 11:31

Works better with Domination line imho... considering eDrain is not only less powerful, it does no damage to the target. If you've got the monk 240 hps down (echoed surge and burn), then that has to be healed back up, out of their energy pool. And mind wrack... I wouldn't try playing edenial without mindwrack (again, they have to heal out of their dwindling energy, or they die). Also to note is that Echo Weariness gives an AoE -20 energy, and with mantra of inscriptions as well you can do this quite fast.

Get mantra of inscriptions and signet of humility in there, that will shut down a monks OoB permanently at 12 insp or higher, and also does helpful little things like removing a warriors eviscerate, turning an IW mesmer into a little prissy with a sharp stick, and often devastating most builds.

Thats not to say the build won't work, with shackles and draining this would play merry hell with rangers and warriors, but then what... you can't do anything to them. In CA, I wouldn't trust a party to be able to capitalize on the low energy of a char (thats assuming they dont have maintainance to counter it), and in higher than CA, monks aren't clueless. Worst case, you shut down a monk and they just run away until they have energy again.

Crimson Eyes · Jan 31, 2006, 12:44 PM // 12:44

impossible to have 16,16 as u need the headgear which gives you +1 to the attribute u want 16 with.

Burakus Lightwing · Jan 31, 2006, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaga

How are you draining 20 energy with no points in dom magic? If thats a typo won't you be shutdown incredibly easy with almost no fast casting?

Inspiration magic= big time energy denial

Burakus Lightwing · Jan 31, 2006, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siliconwafer

With this sort of aim, combined with this sort of build, you should be aiming at keeping a monk at low energies. Focus swapping-ignoring the fact that half of the CA monks don't know what this means-will fool this beast for sure.

Maybe before the E-Drain/E-Tap skill balance, this would have worked. But definitely not now. I'm sorry, but Lady Lozza's build, IMO, is better.

I will agree with keeping at low energy. However, I did see this build in use first hand, by Wretchamn himself and it is very very good. The Monk(s) were uselss as well as many Rangers.
This IS a support build.
Personally I prefer Wretch's over Lady's. No Enchantment removal in Lady's? and you like it better? Mesmer should shut down a monk and that includes getting rid of enchantments. Plus with inspiration that high it is nice energy renewal for you to cast more energy sucking spells with. I know you'll counter that enchantments can be thrown back up..at the cost of depleting an already depleted energy pool. Maybe you are an Uber monk who can handle having low energy. But really now, how long will you last with little energy and at least 2 others pounding on you?

holden · Jan 31, 2006, 03:47 PM // 15:47

"At this point, you should start focusing on another target because in less than about 5 seconds the monk has been rendered completely useless.

Rangers without energy are pretty much done. Just Spirit Shackles them, and keep sapping their energy until Ether Lord comes back. Cast that on the Ranger with Spirit Shackles, and at this point you can go check up on the monk.

In case Warriors ever charge you, just throw up Spirit Shackles and perhaps Arcane Echo Ether Feast and you should be fine.

I love this build because it's almost fullproof.

Best part, it's the quickest and most efficient shutdown build.

I mean come on, shutting down a monk completely in 5 seconds is pretty nice to do, especially when they're useless for about 20 seconds or so.

Have fun with the build! I know I did the first time I shut down that monk. 5 seconds, boom, USELESS! Such a good feeling

[/QUOTE]"

spirit shackles wont help you against an adrenaline ran warrior.
-20 energy wont shut down a monk. the monk will not be 'useless' for 20 seconds
this is not the most efficient shutdown build. it's not almost fullproof.

you can't just say those things wretchman. if you do people will read your build.

'In case Warriors ever charge you, just throw up Spirit Shackles and perhaps Arcane Echo Ether Feast and you should be fine'

Wretchman Drake · Jan 31, 2006, 03:52 PM // 15:52

thats great if this build doesnt shut u down, but if u want, i can stay on yoou sapping all of your energy the whole day, not just 5 seconds. thats only if i need to multitask. i used this build many times to make a statement, most monks ARE useless once i take their energy

agentblade · Jan 31, 2006, 05:43 PM // 17:43

i'm really interested to know how this build can work.. with E-drain the max u can drain each time is 10 so in the first few seconds of the battle u drain 20 energy, with tap another 10, so 30, ether lord means they will be locked down at 2 pips of energy... how does tat shut the monk down for 20 seconds?

plus have u met with interrupt rangers who spam interrupts? if so how can u say u will not be interrupted..

also with the huge recharge on drain it makes it tough to keep monks constantly at 0 energy..

last question, have u fought with monks using Offering of Blood (OoB) before?

I'm just curious to know how u made it work because on paper this build cannot work against good monks.

Wretchman Drake · Jan 31, 2006, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by agentblade

i'm really interested to know how this build can work.. with E-drain the max u can drain each time is 10 so in the first few seconds of the battle u drain 20 energy, with tap another 10, so 30, ether lord means they will be locked down at 2 pips of energy... how does tat shut the monk down for 20 seconds?

plus have u met with interrupt rangers who spam interrupts? if so how can u say u will not be interrupted..

also with the huge recharge on drain it makes it tough to keep monks constantly at 0 energy..

last question, have u fought with monks using Offering of Blood (OoB) before?

I'm just curious to know how u made it work because on paper this build cannot work against good monks.

none of wat u said has even happened. yea OoB helped them for like 2 seconds, then they waste their own energy and i sapp it. hey u dont like build u dont gotta play it u can use watever shutdown u want but this one has had the best luck in random arenas

holden · Jan 31, 2006, 07:43 PM // 19:43

this build just won't steal enough energy. you'll get 20 with the first two e drains and if you're lucky enough to get that slow energy tap off you'll add another 8 or so. so lets just say 30 energy stolen from the monk. then what? what skill does this build have to really put the monk over the edge of no return after you steal 30 energy? the monk will still have 15 to 17 energy left.

ether lord is a bad skill and doesn't deserve to be on a mesmer's bar.

e drain and e tap both have a 30 second recharge. you wont see them for a while.

you could remove his enchantment and gain yourself some more energy.

you could heal yourself.

im not flamin you bro. you put out some wild statements that just aren't true.

"This has to be one of the best Energy Denial builds ever if played and managed right."

hazmat · Jan 31, 2006, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Thanks for sharing your build.. This looks like not a bad support build for gvg. Not particulary heavy hitting as far as energy denial goes but has some annoyance factor.

There's a lot of cooldown time inbetween those spells, including the cooldown of a-echo. Also as much as useful as ether lord is, I don't really see where this fits unless you are casting it at 30 energy or something. Lack of at least one interrupt could be an issue - spose that's not a big deal.

I'd give it a 6/10.

Siliconwafer · Jan 31, 2006, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Ok. Let's take a look at how much energy this build can sap, then.
E-Drain. 9 energy/30 seconds
Arc. Echoed E-Drain 9 energy/20+30 seconds
E-Tap. 6 energy/30 seconds
Ether Lord. 9s at -3 energy pips.

Assume a monk at 40 energy. Assume that the monk uses OoB at 10 blood (+16e/15s)

You go through the chain. 9+9+6=24 energy sapped. Nine seconds after, the monk is at -3 energy regen.
4 pips of energy regen is 1.3 energy per second.
1/3*9s=3 energy gained while Ether Lord Effect lasts.
1.3*21s=27.3 energy gained until E-Drain+E-Tap used.
Add in the two OoB's you use during a 30 second timeframe: +22 energy.
27.3+3+22=52 energy by the time you're ready to do your second chain, which, btw, is not as effective as your first.

This is a hypothetical situation, of course, but it's just to illustrate how the long cooldown times on your energy denial spells will allow a monk to heal consistently through your casts.

In practice, you go through that. 24 energy sapped. A monk still has 16 energy. They cast OoB. +11 energy. They have 27 energy after you've gone through your combo. Not to mention the fact that one should always bring hex removal into anywhere you're going, so I would expect the time of that ether lord would be the time it takes to cast veil and click it off. 1.5 seconds.

holden · Jan 31, 2006, 09:34 PM // 21:34

but even if the monk doesn't remove ether lord, big deal. ether lord is just terrible. energy won't be a problem for this build until you use ether lord. at 12 inspiration it takes ALL of your energy and you'll get about 9 energy back over the next 9 seconds. all to make your foe lose another 9 energy over 9 seconds.

awful

Burakus Lightwing · Jan 31, 2006, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Sillicon- Does every monk use OoB? I don't see that many Mo/N myself. Now in that cool down time what is monk doing? running in circles from the War. or Ranger pounding on him/her? ok let's say they are. But now their energy pool is relatively depleted. What are they casting to keep themselves or thier team alive while they run and wait for that energy to recharge?- This is a SUPPORT build. I think the flamers are missing the point. As support to a dmg dealer it frees up 1-2 people to go after another target. A monk casting through that energy denial will be heavily burdened to heal themselves AND their team.
Holden I think you just enjoy flaming Wretchman- not the first time i've seen this.
If you have an issue with his exuberance and 'wording' over finding a build that worked well for him, well relax. Would you prefer that he say 'A good support energy denial build that can be used in CA/TA' ? As for Ether Lord, matter of opinion. Everyone has a skill bar they like, and Lady also had E.L. on the skill bar, so Wretch isn't the only one to find a use for it. Sillico mention OoB but I'm sure a number of monks would rather not use their Elite slot for this. Skill sets work for different people.
Agentblade- interupt Rangers- yes they can hit ANY spell caster, so what. I do too when I play a Ranger. Is that a good reply to any caster build though? I can certainly go into any caster build post on this forum and reply- interupt Ranger - done. Common now. Plus this build with fast casting at about 13 can and has seriously messed with more than a few Rangers. Play a Ranger with no energy and see how far you get...not very. Yes Interupt spammers are tough to beat, but this is a CA/TA. so let's say TA, well what happens if that other interupts spammer on his team is on you and he hit you with spirit shackles? will your monk remove the hex? or his he saving his own a$$.
Too many what if's here.
I'm not trying to be a jerk but if you see something that can be tweaked then post a suggestion.

I think Energy Tap can be removed and with just a few points in Illusion you can throw conjure phant. on that 'spell caster' or ranger and let make them work that much harder while they're losing health and have little energy. Plus with 13 fast cast it'll be hard to interupt conjure at that point.

Wretchman Drake · Jan 31, 2006, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by holden

but even if the monk doesn't remove ether lord, big deal. ether lord is just terrible. energy won't be a problem for this build until you use ether lord. at 12 inspiration it takes ALL of your energy and you'll get about 9 energy back over the next 9 seconds. all to make your foe lose another 9 energy over 9 seconds.

awful

maybe we can all group up in team arenas and u can see how badly i shut down the monks.

people! this build on paper is not appealing, so dont do that math!

JUST go play it and try it! YOU have no idea of how builds are truly played until you do so yourself. get that thru your thick headed skulls (im not naming anyone, but you should know who im talkin about).

i NEVER EVER give a review to a build that I have never tried yet. that makes for horrible, unreliable reviews. Cmon ppl copy this build and try it for the arenas because all of this "cool down" stuff NEVER happens with me. you just don't know how to play it, thats all. just practice it because on paper its a different thing, but playing it, totally new ballgame.

u think monks r sooooo uber in random arenas? wow, have you pvped lately?

Wretchman Drake · Jan 31, 2006, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burakus Lightwing

Sillicon- Does every monk use OoB? I don't see that many Mo/N myself. Now in that cool down time what is monk doing? running in circles from the War. or Ranger pounding on him/her? ok let's say they are. But now their energy pool is relatively depleted. What are they casting to keep themselves or thier team alive while they run and wait for that energy to recharge?- This is a SUPPORT build. I think the flamers are missing the point. As support to a dmg dealer it frees up 1-2 people to go after another target. A monk casting through that energy denial will be heavily burdened to heal themselves AND their team.
Holden I think you just enjoy flaming Wretchman- not the first time i've seen this.
If you have an issue with his exuberance and 'wording' over finding a build that worked well for him, well relax. Would you prefer that he say 'A good support energy denial build that can be used in CA/TA' ? As for Ether Lord, matter of opinion. Everyone has a skill bar they like, and Lady also had E.L. on the skill bar, so Wretch isn't the only one to find a use for it. Sillico mention OoB but I'm sure a number of monks would rather not use their Elite slot for this. Skill sets work for different people.
Agentblade- interupt Rangers- yes they can hit ANY spell caster, so what. I do too when I play a Ranger. Is that a good reply to any caster build though? I can certainly go into any caster build post on this forum and reply- interupt Ranger - done. Common now. Plus this build with fast casting at about 13 can and has seriously messed with more than a few Rangers. Play a Ranger with no energy and see how far you get...not very. Yes Interupt spammers are tough to beat, but this is a CA/TA. so let's say TA, well what happens if that other interupts spammer on his team is on you and he hit you with spirit shackles? will your monk remove the hex? or his he saving his own a$$.
Too many what if's here.
I'm not trying to be a jerk but if you see something that can be tweaked then post a suggestion.

I think Energy Tap can be removed and with just a few points in Illusion you can throw conjure phant. on that 'spell caster' or ranger and let make them work that much harder while they're losing health and have little energy. Plus with 13 fast cast it'll be hard to interupt conjure at that point.

You are truly full of undeniable wisdom, Burakus. FTW Burakus!

As I said, just be quiet and try it to prove yourselves wrong. This is random arenas. Not to say I also used this in Team Arenas for an hour and rendered multiple targets useless. Too many what if's. You know what I always hear for many enchantment carrying builds? REND ENCHANTMENTS! PWND!11!!!!!!1!!!1

Every build I suppose has an opposite or destroyer, and I belive this build's biggest threat is a full adrenaline based warrior.

holden · Jan 31, 2006, 10:21 PM // 22:21

jesus. i believe wretchman to be a younger person. so believe me, i'm not flaming him and it's nothing personal.
but there are a lot of younger persons playing this game and they deserve to know both sides of the story. does the guild wars community really want the next generation of mesmers carrying around ether lord? thinking that this is the best way to deny energy?
if i posted a build and said things like 'quickest and most efficient shutdown build' or 'one of the best Energy Denial builds' i would expect someone to let me know when i was way off base.
i appreciate you sticking up for wretchman. but if you put a build on this forum you're opening it up for criticism.

this build isn't very good. ether lord is terrible. if you can do the math and prove me otherwise please do.

ill wash wretchman's dog