Curse

Rajamic · Feb 04, 2006, 10:35 PM // 22:35

I think the best idea so far is to just let Exhaustion continue into negative. That way weapon/offhand switching won't let them instantly erase exhaustion. It would at least limit the frequesncy at which warriors (or anyone else for that matter) could use it.

LaserLight · Feb 06, 2006, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Gale does indeed need a knocking, but it seems that there are other ways one could deal with it. Running Mo/W with Balanced Stance would work, and who cares about Tactics being a sub-par line. If it has one skill you need, it's the line for you. Just run Divine Favor, your choice of Healing/Protection, and Tactics. Hell, would probably make a great secondary Monk, using Charge! for mobility enhancement, Balanced Stance to evade Gale lockups and the like, and enough healing to get by. Sure, kinda focused on evading only a single char type, but as has been stated, the current generation of Gale Axemen are truly too powerful for the game's good. They've got one of the most effective point interruption skills in the game, vicious damaging capabilities, and the ability to hunt down whatever they want virtually without fail. Too much for me, thanks.

tafy69 · Feb 06, 2006, 06:40 AM // 06:40

monks with balanced stance is really crappy, maybe if they buffed it so the recharge was same as the effect it would be worth it.

kvndoom · Feb 07, 2006, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarot Ribos

Or... how about this fix for Gale?

Just have the knockdown time relative to the amount of Air Magic invested.

That could allow Air Ele's more of a benefit from the skill, but warriors less so. Not that Gale War's are badly overpowered. But, in the event a change is made, I like the idea of tieing the skill more closely to its attribute line.

That's the BEST idea I've seen for it yet. You'd have to have the full 12 in Air to get 3 seconds, 6-11 only gives you 2. Maybe even have that little "pause" after casting like the Rangers get with interrupts. Then it's still useful, but not so desirable that no one wants to run anything else.

Glasswalker · Feb 13, 2006, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvndoom

That's the BEST idea I've seen for it yet.

I disagree entirely. If you make this of variable length, Warriors will simply carry Stoneskin Gauntlets and increase it thus. Other classes will be at a disadvantage. The thing to do is to allow exhaustion to go negative. The skill at that point is effectively 15E. Few warriors can sustain more than 2 before becoming handicapped (having 7 useful skills and 0 Energy). Putting Sympathetic Visage on one such Warrior would completely shut them down for the legitimate duration of Exhaustion.

With Elementalists, there is the option of buying extra storage, and with other casters, there is greater energy recoup and better foci/primaries as far as additional energy goes. This is less of an issue with them. I would dare say that with the exception of Warriors and Rangers, Exhaustion was factorred into the cost.

If I am reading things properly though, it seams that changing to a lesser focus, then back will cure you of 5+ Energy of exhaustion. That is broken no matter what the skill.

LightningHell · Feb 14, 2006, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Stoneskin Gauntlet doesn't increase Gale knockdown time.

And really did you need to triple post? :P

Poison Ivy · Feb 14, 2006, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Nurf everything FFS! NURF NURF NURF!

Nurf the 55 hp, nurf gale, nurf Swirling Aura, nurf this nurf that.

The only thing that should be nurfed is the creater of this thread :P

Renegade ++RIP++ · Feb 14, 2006, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

Stoneskin Gauntlet doesn't increase Gale knockdown time.

And really did you need to triple post? :P

It will if you decrease the knockdowntimer. Gauntlets increase the time with 1 second but only as long as it doesn't go beyond the 3 second line.

Its the reason why backbreaker doesn't get affected by stoneskin gauntlet either.

darkMishkin · Feb 14, 2006, 02:18 PM // 14:18

What about making exhaustion removal relative to pips of energy regeneration? Warriors should obviously not be getting the same effect from exhaustion as casters. 1/2 as much energy regen should mean recovering from exhaustion at half the speed.

This could be continued further if not the natural energy regen (2 for W, 3 for R, 4 for casters), but modded regen could be taken into account. This would lead to nice (largely necro) combos of Blood Ritual / Blood is Power / Peace and Harmony / Melandru's Resilience being used to quickly clear exhaustion in exhaustion heavy builds. Also this enables the use of Wither / Malaise to counter such a build, as removing pips of regen would increase the time the caster was exhausted.

This could be a really interesting change to the mechanics of exhaustion.

Makkert · Feb 14, 2006, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Marauder

Gale should not be nerfed, because it's not Gale's fault.

This logic is beyond me.

Quote:

if you're nerfing Gale, you're only hurting other classes using Gale.

Well, this logic I can follow. But should a nerf hurt everyone? Me thinks not.

Quote:

Axe warriors are still free to use whatever high-energy skills out there to hurt or annoy casters. Then people will yell "nerf those" again, not realizing where the problem really is.

You don't see many sword/hammer warriors using Gale because exhaustion will reduce their damage output a lot by preventing them from using their favorite spammable skills (irresistable blow, seeking blade etc.). But axe warriors are in the unique position because their high damage skills don't use energy, so exhaustion means nothing to them. So solution should be making some axe skills costing energy instead of adrenaline, then they will have to think twice before using skills that cause exhaustion and limit their damage output.

An interesting uptake, but I think the trouble lies mostly with a lack of counters and the fact that Exhaustion is basicly bypassed. And I'm afraid Chapter 2 isn't helping much in the counter options department. If exhaustion would go into negative, that would be a nice first step. Your suggested change is a big one, and i'm not convinced it would solve the issue tbh. In any case we'll see what the skillbalancing will bring soon.

Darkpower Alchemist · Feb 14, 2006, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Nerfing? Skill balancing? Skill changes? All these fall into the same vein as with the IWAY situation.You can't find a way to stop it,so down its power levels,or make it do less than what it does now."Nerfing" the spell does no justice to the Air spell lineup,since it is rather sparse and underpowered at low lvls anyway. Also, Gale, like its air spell brethren,are basically solo opponent based,making teamwork more needed than ever before. How about covering the downed monk/spellcaster with an interupt on a warrior,giving him a chance to recover?It's the typical way of thinking that is the cause of the problem.One track teamplay always leaves the spellcasters in 1 on 1 situations with warriors.We all know that warriors outmuscle,and take more damage than any spellcaster can take,but we always seem to leave them to fend for themselves."Oh,he can heal himself while I take out the monk!" "I deal alot of damage,so all he has to do is hold out until I'm done with their monk!" This way of thinking is so backwards,that it is sickening.Why doesn't a team work with a buddy like system? Have a Spiker stay near or at least watch the monk's back.Keep close and protect your healers,and Gale won't matter as much.Nerf the spell,and another way emerges.Their should never be a time where the monk is so far away from his teammates that he can not at least be defended properly.Dual W/E Gale Axemen in a team, working together, cover each other,so why not a spiker ele and the monk?I believe that a monk should always carry a smite,for self defense purposes. Should it deal damage? I believe so.The monk's partner/Protector should then use the exact spell we are disgusing,Gale,to stop the warrior,or another that will be effective in whatever build the ele is running.Maybe the ele is a smiter in disguise,then he could cast SoJ on the downed monk,causing the warrior to get one hit before being knocked on his duff,and the monk gets up and does his running thing,that ele can then use a spell like lightning javelin to interupt the next gale attempt.My point is nerfing isn't the only option for the one solid defensive/knockdown/interupt spell in the ENTIRE Air spell lineup.Get inventive,and play the team sport like it's meant to be played.

Darkpower Alchemist · Feb 14, 2006, 04:46 PM // 16:46

discussing* bad spelling day

Knight of Eternal Darknes · Feb 14, 2006, 05:05 PM // 17:05

doesn't need to be nerfed, it's fine as is people didn't know who used it before observe mode, so you shouldn't be complaining about it when people steal other peoples ideas..... worste blackout(yeah right) blackout lasts for up to 6 seconds it's not even close, only class gale is worth putting on as a warrior is an axe warrior... other than that it's pretty foolish, if you can't find a counter to it then that's your fault, it's not overpowering at all, because of warrior easily being disabled through slowing moving hexes/cripple and hexes to make you miss/blind warriors have many disadvantages because they have to be near you in order to hit you, if your other monk can't help you out while your knockdown then it's your teams fault for not having a strategy if that happen. STOP B*TCHING no one is even on your side because people like using it.

Renegade ++RIP++ · Feb 14, 2006, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Point is however that gale has made hammerknockdowns near useless. And hammers are already at a small loss in comparison to axes or swords. Gale is still a more consistant knockdown then the ones dependent on adrenaline.

Epinephrine · Feb 14, 2006, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Exhaustion can't go negative. If exhaustion could go negative we'd be fine; Gale locking could happen, but it would be limited in usefulness, as warriors would quickly reduce their energy to below zero. Using Gale at 5 max energy would set your maximum energy to -5, and it's be the full 30 seconds till you could employ it again. Fix the exhaustion mechanic and Gale is quite reasonable, but with the ability to swap weapon sets to get rid of exhaustion warriors can easily Gale without having any problem with exhaustion.

glountz · Feb 14, 2006, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Instead of whining against nerfing, just watch in observer mode best team's GvGs.
And do some skill comparison, please. This game is meant to be balanced so player's skill is all that matters.
Playing a hammer warrior sometimes, I give you a comparison.

Backbreaker
Elite
10 A.D=you must wait a long time to be able to use it.
Melee range.
4 sec KD.
Counters possible: evade stances, blocking enchants, blindness, cripple, hexes, adrenalin loss.

Gale
Non-Elite
5 Energy + exhaustion ( easily counterable by focus swap)
Ranged
3 sec KD
Counters possible: Spell breaker, fast interrupts.

Please explain why a warrior should play hammer and choose hammer elites.

Glasswalker · Feb 14, 2006, 06:46 PM // 18:46

First off, my apologies for the earlier Tripple Post. A personal record at the very least.

BELEETED!

I would never argue in favor of nerfing skills or even skill combinations that I can't beat. That actually makes me strive harder to beat it. Balanced Stance, and interruptions work pretty well to defeat Gale Warriors. I will, however talk about nerfing when an exploit comes up. I don't blame people for using an exploit; but when it is found, steps should be taken to correct it. I don't believe that focus switching was ever intended to cure exhaustion. I think that is broken behavior. That is what I think should be changed, and it is regardless of the skill Gale.

I believe Exhaustion should go negative. I would even go further and say I think there should be consequenses to having exhausted more energy than you actually have. Maybe health degen, maybe you suffer Weakness. Maybe you can't block, etc. Or maybe every strike against you is a Crit. If you can imagine a 'real-life' mage who had no energy -- cast a spell that was more than he could handle, what would happen? Would he collapse? He would certainly be unable to continue without intervention.

As a secondary issue, I like the idea of tying Exhaustion recovery to current Energy Regeneration. Not because it is broken now, but if you think about it abstractly instead of in game-mechanics terms, it makes sense that it should work that way.

Epinephrine · Feb 14, 2006, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight of Eternal Darknes

STOP B*TCHING no one is even on your side because people like using it.

Hey, there's a * in one of your words! Maybe there's a letter behind it? If...I....push (grunt) I can just...make it out...(Gasp!)

How rude, sirrah!

Well, we've heard from the W/E m*r*n crowd about balance. Not surprisingly, they like their toys, but it's like a kid with a gun, of course he likes it, he pulls the trigger and big noises happen. Folks like that wouldn't know balance if it came up and knocked them on their butt for a solid minute.

Believe it or not KoED, it is currently broken. As has been mentioned, the exhaustion mechanism is busted, it has made hammer warriors obsolete essentially and is not operating as intended.

Change recharge time to 7 seconds, instead of 5; make exhaustion go negative, and you've solved it pretty well. I think it needs a lot more fine tuning than a simple number tweak, honestly, but it would do for now.

Akbur the great · Feb 15, 2006, 07:29 PM // 19:29

what NPC teaches gale it sounds fun lol i really hate when the monks run as if they were roaches and somone turned on the light. im a noob at this game, just started 2 days ago so dont waste ur breath/fingers telling me a noob i agree completely.

Akbur the great · Feb 15, 2006, 07:33 PM // 19:33

yo???? anyone left in this thread huh? huh?
uhuhhuh???