Curse

Schrale Kerel NL · Feb 14, 2006, 07:36 PM // 19:36

What would you guys consider to be the best choice of weapons for an earth elemental?

DeanBB · Feb 14, 2006, 09:01 PM // 21:01

I personally would not want to operate with only 2 pips of energy regen, but I'm not sure what spells you are using so perhaps it makes sense for your build. Having the big +energy items in an alt slot is an option though for use in emergencies.

Also the +enchantments typically makes a big difference for earth mages as the armors and such are usually a big part of the build.

My vote is the 20/20 staff with +ench. I'd replace the +health with a +armor or +energy if possible.

Bugeater · Feb 14, 2006, 09:18 PM // 21:18

I'm assuming the +30 set is for swapping when targetted by an e-drainer. If you're on a spike team the 20% fast cast will screw you 20% of the time, but otherwise fast cast/fast recharge is a solid mod. What enchantments are you running? +18% seems wasted for a pure earth ele. Also in general +5 armor is better than +30hp (or 26 in this case).

Schrale Kerel NL · Feb 14, 2006, 10:02 PM // 22:02

well, my consideration for the wand + offhand was because off the exhaustion skills earth eles have so I can cast longer. This is very nice in the first round against the zashen in Hall. Moslty i am warder though.
But what about +5 armor is better then +30hp?? Can u explain that pls

Schrale Kerel NL · Feb 14, 2006, 10:02 PM // 22:02

well, my consideration for the wand + offhand was because off the exhaustion skills earth eles have so I can cast longer. This is very nice in the first round against the zashen in Hall. Moslty i am warder though.
But what about +5 armor is better then +30hp?? Can u explain that pls

SchwarzKnight · Feb 15, 2006, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Simple. 5 extra armor points will prevent more than 30 damage over the course of your health bar. As seen here, using Drok's level armor as a base, you get an 8.3% damage reduction whenever the armor is active. At 480 max health (base w/no runes or other health mods), that means it will require a little over 523 base damage to kill you. That beats the +30 health mod right off the bat. Also, this is the worst-case scenario of you getting hit with a straight damage spike and receive no healing. If you get healed and waver around for a while below max health but still alive, that armor mod is still saving you damage each time.

Mistical miss · Feb 15, 2006, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Yes, but degeneration effects, will still go trough armor. I would stick with armor anyways, its much cheaper...

SchwarzKnight · Feb 15, 2006, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Firstly, this discussion about this sort of thing leads me to believe that there is no damage that truly "ignores armor." They only treat it like a 60 AL target, thus doing exactly the amount of damage they said they would - no modifiers due to armor, and ignoring damage reduction by shield, armor effect, or rune.

Considering your degen example, that extra 30 health isn't going to save you much time, either. At 4 pips of degen (bleeding), that extra 30 health is gone in 3 1/2 seconds. That's not really a threat to you with or without the fortitude mod on, so let's consider the extreme case: a full 10 pips of degen. Now, the fortitude mod has saved you all of a second and a half. Frankly, the only time where that fortitude mod really makes a difference is when you're within a hair's breadth of death (30 hp or less) anyway. Otherwise, you're using health you would've had without the fortitude mod anyway, and the point becomes moot.

Let me put it another way. Again, I'll use the example as before of 60 AL as the base. Your monk heals you for 100 points. Pretty reasonable, right? High-level orison with a nice DF bonus thrown in, it's not a real unusual case. With your fortitude mod, it will take 100 damage to negate that. With a +5 armor mod, it will take 109 damage. Now consider this over the scope of a pvp match or a full pve mission. How many times will you be on the brink of death where that fortitude mod is all that's standing between you and a nice taste of dirt? None, hopefully, if you've got a good team around you. How often will you take damage (not counting stuff like Judge's Insight, Vamp Gaze (and its ilk) or degen) and have that damage healed from you? A whole heckuva lot, I'd bet. That 9 points of damage on every hundred will add up to a lot more than the static 30 you get from fortitude.

However, if you're playing an earth elementalist with armor-boosting spells, it's a different story. The argument I use above is best for a base 60 AL armor. If you're boosting that with spells, then the +5 you would get from your staff becomes less significant, as there is an inverse exponential relationship there. In other words, the law of diminishing returns comes into effect. Thus, if you do use a lot of armor-enhancement via spell, then the health might be a more viable option. Otherwise, I'd say the armor boost is the way to go.

4thVariety · Feb 15, 2006, 06:41 PM // 18:41

I hope this table helps. personally I would go for more reg points, but since the nrg will be instantly addedone still has the option to switch and the nrg points gained are a nice boost when encountering drainers.

you can even have yourself drained to zero, and when they think you are down you comeback and hit 'em hard. or switch to "boon healer emergency mode"

but for quick and dirty waste of energy nothing really beats +15/-1

kazujin · Feb 16, 2006, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by SchwarzKnight

At 4 pips of degen (bleeding), that extra 30 health is gone in 3 1/2 seconds.

Just a minor clarification, it'll be gone in 3 3/4 seconds.

I see fortitude modifications as compensation for HP lost due to Superior Runes.

DOCB22 · Feb 16, 2006, 07:29 AM // 07:29

I use a 20/20 collectors staff with a +5 neg head and a +20% enchanting wrap. works great for me

Schrale Kerel NL · Feb 16, 2006, 11:33 AM // 11:33

When I am warder, i dont use armor boosting skills. The longer enchantment mod was only for the earth attunement. I use the 2 pips regen set only in emmergencies and in the first round against the zaishen.
I would like you oppinions in the next situations.

1. For a warder i just gonna take a 20/20 staff whit eiter 2 +5 armor or 2 +30hp mods. Still dont know which i am gonna take. (As warder I use earthquake and obsidian flame but compensate it whit glyph of energy and for only wards i dont need +5 energy mods)

2. For air spiker i was thinking about a 20/20 staff whit +5 energy and either +5 armor or +30hp mods. I think +30 hp is better because i use ether prodigy for energy management. Or maybe 2 +30hp mods would be better?

3. As a hydro ele I also use ether prodigy. This gives the same problem as the air spiker.

Schrale Kerel NL · Feb 16, 2006, 11:49 AM // 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by SchwarzKnight

Firstly, this discussion

Considering your degen example, that extra 30 health isn't going to save you much time, either. At 4 pips of degen (bleeding), that extra 30 health is gone in 3 1/2 seconds. That's not really a threat to you with or without the fortitude mod on, so let's consider the extreme case: a full 10 pips of degen. Now, the fortitude mod has saved you all of a second and a half. Frankly, the only time where that fortitude mod really makes a difference is when you're within a hair's breadth of death (30 hp or less) anyway. Otherwise, you're using health you would've had without the fortitude mod anyway, and the point becomes moot.

The point of using +30hp or +5 armor mods is to live longer right... The 3.5 seconds longer lifetime you where mentioning or 7 seconds when i would use 2health mods are exactly the reason why i would take the health or armor mods. That gives the monks 3.5 or 7 seconds more to safe me from dead. You maybe not on the edge very much, but that doesnt matter. I would like the mods to safe me from a dead so that i dont have the 15% DP.

Anyway, I think the +30hp mods r more allround against all damage, and the +5 armor is better for pure damage whit no armor penatration or degen.

SchwarzKnight · Feb 16, 2006, 06:27 PM // 18:27

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that your health mods are one-shot deals. Consider them tacked on to the top or bottom of your health bar, same difference. Those mods give you an extra hit or two of health before (or after) your normal health bar is cut into. With an armor mod, the damage done to you is reduced pretty much all the time. Elemental damage is reduced. Physical damage is reduced. And don't those count for the vast majority of the damage done to you? PvP will probably see more degen and AP thrown around, but I still think the + armor is a better all-around choice. While your fortitude mod's keeping you alive at the brink, the armor mod's keeping you from getting to the brink in the first place.

So, to answer your questoins, as an already armor-challenged ele, I'd say you're better off getting the extra armor than the extra health. Then again, if you have both a head and a wrapping available to you, you could do both and get the best of both worlds. And as an ele primary, you've got energy storage available, so that extra 5 energy from a staff head is a negligible difference.

pegasux · Feb 16, 2006, 08:27 PM // 20:27

I agree with SchwarzKinght that you should go with the +5 +5 armor mod. I run an ele myself most of the time and the extra armor goes a long ways. 1 question though, how do you manage exhaustion with earthquake and obsidian flame? both exhaust...I tend to ignore earthquake for that and if you need PBAoE then why now crystal wave? faster cast and ignores armor and no exhaustion. I can see earthquake IF combo'ed with aftershock though.

Schrale Kerel NL · Feb 16, 2006, 10:33 PM // 22:33

I am more busy whit warding then dealing damage. But when is need to spike I glyph obsidian flame and when i want to do AoE damage I take earthquake and mostly use obsidian flame after is. I sometimes take exhaustion, its not really a disaster for me. I dont use aftershock very much tho.