Curse

Baby Raiven · Jun 28, 2006, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Does the high req on these blades make them not as good as a lower req with same stats?

Effigy · Jun 28, 2006, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Basically, yes. They may look cool, but they are not very practical unless you are never going to make a build with less than 15 Dagger. Maybe that's the case for some people, but I'd rather have flexibility if I were choosing gear.

curtman · Jun 28, 2006, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Get a dagger mask, major dagger rune to bump u up to 15, superior vigor rune. use mending to offset health degen.

Few guildies and I use that build with our assassins. It works well. Good for dealing with silly Ws who have a secondary that is not monk.

Baby Raiven · Jun 28, 2006, 12:22 AM // 00:22

oh ok thnx...so what would you recommend for excellent daggers that produce lots of dmg for an A/Mo

Effigy · Jun 28, 2006, 12:25 AM // 00:25

I know how to get 15 Dagger, but that's not the point. Not all builds require or have points to spare for 15 Dagger. For instance, if you were making a utility-based build (rather than damage) you may want to leave Dagger at 9 or 12. With Shiro's Blades, you don't have that option. Most assassin builds will have 15-16 Dagger, so it's not usually an issue. I just rather have the option of going lower instead of being required to have 15+ Dagger on every build I use. The only benefit to using these daggers is the skin, and there are plenty of good looking alternatives anyway.

Secondly, I strongly suggest you forget about Mending. This have been stated innumerable times in all sections of the forum. The -1 degen from vamp weapons is not a good enough reason to include Mending in a build. It's a waste of energy and a skill slot.

Lambentviper · Jun 28, 2006, 12:36 AM // 00:36

With Shiro's (anything) the req. 15 forces you to have higher dagger mastery, guarenteeing you will do more damage. MAny people dont realise that its not just the weapons damage that determines the outcome, but the attribute points as well.

So basically, if you run shiro's daggers with 15 or 16 DM..you'll do more damage than regular 7-17 daggers with only 8 or 9 points in attribute

Actually, the only problem with mending comes with warriors who use it and then rely on energy heavy skills.

But with assassins and high critical hits, they can net them selves more energy, especially with zealous hilt. So if i had +2 energy regen because of a 1/1 zealous and-1 from mending, i would still have enough energy to spam my combos. So really its not a waste of energy or a skill slot for most sins

Effigy · Jun 28, 2006, 01:29 AM // 01:29

I already know that higher Dagger skill gives more damage. That was never in question. If you read my post, I specifically stated that some assassin builds may be geared toward utility/conditions/interruption/whatever rather than just pure dagger damage. For these builds, having 15 or 16 Dagger is a waste of attribute points, which will be needed for other skill lines. Shiro's Blades are not compatible with these builds. In truth, Shiro's Blades have no advantages over req9 daggers with the same mods. They aren't worth using imo.

Mending is useful for some things, but countering the -1 degen from vamp weapons is not one of them. To cancel that -1 degen, you're sacrificing 1/8 of your skillbar, attribute points to raise Healing to 8 (Mending is completely pointless with less than 8 Healing), 10e to cast it, and 1e every 3 seconds. The healing you gain from Mending is a measily 6hp per second.

On the other hand, you could cancel the vamp degen at completely no cost whatsoever by switching to a different weapon while you're not fighting. If you guys want to keep using subpar builds with Mending rather than just taking 1 second every now and then to switch weapons, be me guest. Just don't try fooling yourself or anyone else into thinking it's a good option.

Red Locust · Jun 28, 2006, 02:04 AM // 02:04

If you're talking PvP, I don't see what's so wrong with 15req. Much like warriors, assassins will want as many points in dagger mastery as possible (i.e. 15 or 16) because damage is your primary objective. Much like I wouldn't run a warrior with 14 in axe, I wouldn't run an assassin with 14 in daggers. In that respect, the high req. on shiro's daggers doesn't change anything.

Bloodied Blade · Jun 28, 2006, 03:35 AM // 03:35

I don't really like the high req on the daggers because it's already been shown that anything above 12 in an attribute for your weapon and you begin to hit diminishing returns. I also have more valuable things that I can spend my hp on than using a major or sup rune for a pair of daggers identical to one with a lower req. I've seen people run 15-16 in dagger mastery for shiro's blades, but I just don't like to use hp for an attribute that I don't see enough of a return from.

Kijik Oni Hanryuu · Jun 28, 2006, 03:57 AM // 03:57

I lumma Shiro's blades, considering my build is concentric around dealing huge dammage, I always have max DM, it is much like fire magic for my ele nuker fire magic is always at 16 so I dont even pay attention to the reqs if they say fire magic. Also if I do start running a build that isnt pure dagger and damage based then I will hopefully, by then, have a set of ungues of the oni.