Curse

Lasher Dragon · Jun 24, 2006, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

Booya, I knew I wasn't crazy. I was hoping someone would publically agree with me eventually. Thanks for the confirmation.

I am glad too that others have come forward to agree with you on this... I was starting to wonder if either you were crazy, or I was.

I honestly do not remember running into this myself, but if it's as prevalent as Jenosavel says it is, then surely I have encountered it. I probably just chalked it up to "the damn cheating AI", bitched for a while, and forgot about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

As for the bow type argument, I honestly give up. It seems clear to me by now that most people are going to use the type of bow they like best and aren't going to care much about discussion otherwise. If you really like Flatbow so much, go for it. I find it's arc to be horrible, and despite the fact that it's usable in many situations does not change the fact that it's horrid in others. In my opinion, Longbows are the most versitile and usable in most situations.

I'm with you on the flatbow issue... I can't stand them. I use longbows and shortbows myself. I'm not saying that flatbows suck or anything, you flatbow lovers out there, just that I personally just don't like them. Feels like firing a trebuchet.

You see Sha? I'm not here just to argue with you on every point.

Solvi · Jun 24, 2006, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenosavel

First off, the monk bosses in Sorrow's Furnace do indeed have two copies of Orison on their bar. I've played the interruptor down there enough times to know. When you hit Orison with Distracting Shot, you know it. You see the progress bar do all of its "I've been interrupted!!" stuff, and when you're the only interuptor on the team there's no question as to what happened. Regardless of this, the boss will keep casting Orison until you Distracting Shot that one too. If you're good/lucky enough (usually the latter for me, but I have done it) to get the second one as soon as Distracting Shot recharges, you'll find that the boss does stop casting Orison for a while.

However if what you are saying is true than distracting shot still is not working the way it is stated. It is only supposed to keep skills from recharging...not spells. So is distracting shot broken?

Lasher Dragon · Jun 24, 2006, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solvi

However if what you are saying is true than distracting shot still is not working the way it is stated. It is only supposed to keep skills from recharging...not spells. So is distracting shot broken?

Spells are skills. If it can go on your skill bar, it's a skill.

Evilsod · Jun 24, 2006, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasher Dragon

Spells are skills. If it can go on your skill bar, it's a skill.

I'm sure it was bugged at one point though. In SF i Distracted a Ressurect from the Priests and it instantly started recasting it.

Lasher Dragon · Jun 24, 2006, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

I'm sure it was bugged at one point though. In SF i Distracted a Ressurect from the Priests and it instantly started recasting it.

Perhaps he had 2 copies, as others have asserted happens down there. It could have been bugged I suppose. Or, you could just chalk it up to cheating.

Sha Noran · Jun 24, 2006, 03:38 PM // 15:38

I told you I wasn't crazy.

Katari · Jun 24, 2006, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Is there any good reason to have the ranger pull? Can't a warrior put a longbow on his F4 slot and pull with that? You don't want agro on the ranger, so why have the ranger pull? It makes only slightly more sense than having a sin, mesmmer, etc pull.

Lasher Dragon · Jun 24, 2006, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katari

Is there any good reason to have the ranger pull? Can't a warrior put a longbow on his F4 slot and pull with that? You don't want agro on the ranger, so why have the ranger pull? It makes only slightly more sense than having a sin, mesmmer, etc pull.

I like having a ranger pull if he's using poison - might as well get the conditions up as soon as possible. Also, if I'm a trapper, I set my traps, then pull with a poisoned Oath Shot.

Sha Noran · Jun 24, 2006, 04:44 PM // 16:44

In some places, yes, it is better if the Warrior pulls because agro on anything else would be fatal. On some occasions, however, it is best to have the Ranger pull back to the Warrior, i.e. if the Warrior needs to block the enemies on a corner, the Warrior can stand his ground and the Ranger can pull them back to his spot.

Solvi · Jun 24, 2006, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasher Dragon

Spells are skills. If it can go on your skill bar, it's a skill.

"If Distracting Shot hits, it interrupts target foe's action but deals only 1-13 damage. If the interrupted action was a skill, that skill is disabled for an additional 20 seconds."

Yes true...but i think in the case of distracting shot when it says if action is a skill it is then disabled for 20 seconds they are differniating between skills and other skill types: As in....

"This is a skill type that all skills have.
It is only shown in descriptions and sorting-by-type when a skill does not belong to a more specific skill type (such as signet, spell, or stance)."

This would also explain why the example of the rez sig got distracted but not disabled for the 20 secs.

I believe that unless it spacifically states an action as a "skill" it will still get inturupted but not disabled for the 20 secs....thus explaining why other "skill types" could be used immediatly after distraction....keep in mind that this is just my inturpretation and i have been known to be wrong before (believe it or not!...lol) but this is how it has always seemed to work for me.

got lah · Jun 24, 2006, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solvi

"If Distracting Shot hits, it interrupts target foe's action but deals only 1-13 damage. If the interrupted action was a skill, that skill is disabled for an additional 20 seconds."

Yes true...but i think in the case of distracting shot when it says if action is a skill it is then disabled for 20 seconds they are differniating between skills and other skill types: As in....

"This is a skill type that all skills have.
It is only shown in descriptions and sorting-by-type when a skill does not belong to a more specific skill type (such as signet, spell, or stance)."

This would also explain why the example of the rez sig got distracted but not disabled for the 20 secs.

I believe that unless it spacifically states an action as a "skill" it will still get inturupted but not disabled for the 20 secs....thus explaining why other "skill types" could be used immediatly after distraction....keep in mind that this is just my inturpretation and i have been known to be wrong before (believe it or not!...lol) but this is how it has always seemed to work for me.

I've had Sha try shooting me with distracting shot while I was casting Life Siphon, and it ate the interupt. Plus, the boss in SF probably had a second copy of resurrect, as clearly stated in earlier posts by Sha.

Sha Noran · Jun 25, 2006, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by got lah

I've had Sha try shooting me with distracting shot while I was casting Life Siphon, and it ate the interupt. Plus, the boss in SF probably had a second copy of resurrect, as clearly stated in earlier posts by Sha.

Indeed, this was the alliance buddy I cited before. :-D

XvArchonvX · Jun 25, 2006, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solvi

"If Distracting Shot hits, it interrupts target foe's action but deals only 1-13 damage. If the interrupted action was a skill, that skill is disabled for an additional 20 seconds."

Yes true...but i think in the case of distracting shot when it says if action is a skill it is then disabled for 20 seconds they are differniating between skills and other skill types: As in....

"This is a skill type that all skills have.
It is only shown in descriptions and sorting-by-type when a skill does not belong to a more specific skill type (such as signet, spell, or stance)."

This would also explain why the example of the rez sig got distracted but not disabled for the 20 secs.

I believe that unless it spacifically states an action as a "skill" it will still get inturupted but not disabled for the 20 secs....thus explaining why other "skill types" could be used immediatly after distraction....keep in mind that this is just my inturpretation and i have been known to be wrong before (believe it or not!...lol) but this is how it has always seemed to work for me.

If you still have doubts, go outside of Augary Rock and let the Rockshots use Distracting Shot on you while you use various skills, spells, signets, etc. The only time you won't really notice the effect is if you are using a spell that gains an increased recharge time from a mod on your weapon. I tested this and encourage you to do the same if you have doubts. There are two meanings of the word "Skill" in Guild Wars. One is the skill type "skill" and the other pertains to anything that you put in your skill bar. See below for Guild Wiki definitions I have posted before:

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Skill

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Skill_%28Skill_type%29

As for the Flatbow debate, I have stated on several occasions that I in general prefer a flatbow. This is largely because I prefer to use Apply Poison as my preparation. However if I was going for a damage build, I would use Read the Wind as my prep. My reasoning for this would be because the damage bonus from this skill ignores damage. Even though Kindle Arrows says it has a higher damage bonus, on most enemies you encounter later on in the game the effect of the armor counters the Kindle Arrows bonus a great deal making it equal or sometimes less than the bonus from Read the Wind. With this in mind a Flatbow would be the perfect bow to use.

I have a feeling Sha will disagree with me on this one since he is a great endorser of Kindle Arrows, but I will cite www.guildwiki.org on this one:
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Read_the_Wind

If going against soft enemies such as in the Shing Jea Islands in Factions or before the Southern Shiverpeaks in Prophecies, Kindle Arrows would be a fine choice.

Sha Noran · Jun 25, 2006, 02:06 AM // 02:06

Read The Wind is probably the only other legitimate prep to use other than Kindle, and is particularly useful when you don't want your damage type changing to fire, though Kindle Arrows gives a better damage bonus by far. Longbow is my personal preferance, leaving you open to using Kindle rather than forcing you into RtW so that you can hit anything.

Jenosavel · Jun 25, 2006, 03:36 AM // 03:36

I love the continued insistance that a flatbow cannot hit anything without RTW (or FW).

You imply things which simply aren't true and then try to cover yourself by saying we simply have a difference of opinion.

It's this along with the continued insistance that Kindle is a superior damage-dealing prep to RTW that really makes me find it hard to take you serious Sha Nora.

Here are the cold hard numbers:

If you're using Kindle to deal damage, you need to be spec'd into at least 3 lines. Marksmanship, Expertise, and Wilderness Survival. You're really not likely to get your Wilderness Survival up past 10 or so. At 10, it looks like:

Kindle Damage vs AL60
17 * 2 ^ ((3 * 20 - 60)/40) = 17 dmg

Kindle Damage vs AL 80 =
17 * 2 ^ ((3 * 20 - 80)/40) = 12 dmg

Kindle Damage vs AL 100
17 * 2 ^ ((3 * 20 - 100)/40) = 9 dmg

If you're using RTW to deal damage, you only need to be spec'd into Marksmanship and Expertise, thus your Marks will most likely be at 16.

RTW vs any AL = 10 damage

So when you're fighting softies or low-leveled enemies, then Kindle is better. However if you're dealing with harder targets or those level 28 bosses, then at worst they come out even and at best RTW is ahead. (the difference becomes more prounounced if you actually take into account how much that extra Marksmanship with RTW is adding to your bow's base damage) Notice that I'm not saying RTW is overall superior to Kindle. I am saying that calling it inferior is just dumb.

So please, you don't have to agree with me. You don't have to like the flatbow more than the longbow. I respect the fact that you like the Longbow; as I've stated I liked the Longbow myself for quite a while. However, I'd really appreciate it if you actually adressed people's points instead of writing them off. You can hit a great deal with a prep-less flatbow in PvE, and stating otherwise makes you come off as either stuck-up or ignorant.

XvArchonvX · Jun 25, 2006, 03:43 AM // 03:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

Read The Wind is probably the only other legitimate prep to use other than Kindle, and is particularly useful when you don't want your damage type changing to fire, though Kindle Arrows gives a better damage bonus by far. Longbow is my personal preferance, leaving you open to using Kindle rather than forcing you into RtW so that you can hit anything.

You should try something. Go to the isle of the nameless and equip Kindle Arrows and start attacking the 100 armor. You will notice it does 10 damage. You may argue that only some warriors have 100 armor, but when you take into account that all ranger armor has a +AL bonus that many armors have as well as the fact that most enemies that are over lvl 20 seem to have armor greater than human players, you will see that the bonus with Kindle Arrows becomes less and less effective as you progress through the game.

Also take into consideration that Read the Wind increases arrow speed you also gain the increased ability to interupt. Even if Kindle Arrows did actually give you the +20 bonus that is stated in the description, you would not be able to meet the damage output of other professions. The way I see it, you as a ranger are a substandard damage dealer either way. If you are going to have any usefulness and hold your merit as a placeholder in the party you better be able to do something else besides deal damage. If you can increase your ability to interupt, then you have an ability that others cannot duplicate to the same efficiency of other professions.

Some may argue that a ranger may be able to outdamage other professions with a Barrage build, and in some cases when aggro is large and clumped, this is true, but of course, Kindle Arrows can't be used with barrage, so I don't see it as holding a strong merit with a damage dealing build.

Are there exeptions to this? Of course. In early game areas, Kindle Arrows is a good skill to have. If you encounter places in the game where you go agaist enemies who are weak against fire damage, Kindle Arrows may again be a suitable choice. Beyond this, however I don't see this as being the most advantageous skill to equip.

Sha Noran · Jun 25, 2006, 05:22 AM // 05:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenosavel

I love the continued insistance that a flatbow cannot hit anything without RTW (or FW). You imply things which simply aren't true and then try to cover yourself by saying we simply have a difference of opinion.

It's this along with the continued insistance that Kindle is a superior damage-dealing prep to RTW that really makes me find it hard to take you serious Sha Nora.

Sarcasm>You

I've stated that RtW is the only other option as a prep. RtW or Kindle, pick one. If you prefer RtW, go for it. I'll continue running Kindle, despite you're intriguing numbers to the contrary.

Ari Shiningstar · Jun 25, 2006, 11:21 PM // 23:21

I'm glad to hear at least some rangers don't like spirits. I never have, since they work for both sides. Maybe i'm dense but I don't see the merit in that.

Sha Noran · Jun 26, 2006, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ari Shiningstar

I'm glad to hear at least some rangers don't like spirits. I never have, since they work for both sides. Maybe i'm dense but I don't see the merit in that.

Exactly. There are a few uses for them, like everything, but GENERALLY, they aren't any good.

SnipiousMax · Jun 26, 2006, 01:24 AM // 01:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenosavel

<snip>

Thanks for the numbers Jeno. I'll be refrencing this post many times in the future if you don't mind.