Curse

FrogDevourer · Jun 30, 2006, 12:32 PM // 12:32

Glad to hear you're having fun with this setup, but please don't advertise it in such a trollish thread and worse in the monk forum.

Ether Prodigy is a good way to fuel energy monsters such as heal party. Granted it can be handy against degen enemies. Healing Breeze is arguably usable as preventive heal since you have tons of energy to spare. But the rest of this build is useless on an elementalist.

Seriously.

For the records, I have both a primary monk and a primary elementalist (which I sometimes use as backup healer), so I have nothing pro/against these professions. But if I were able to see your skillset ingame, I'd better join a PuG with an offensive elementalist and only one monk instead.

A quick search will lead you to very old 'energy storage vs divine favor' argument. It's probably as old as the 'axes vs swords' debate (old beta days). This has been settled months ago, so there is no point in reinventing the wheel here. In short your build isn't half as good as a decent monk. You probably don't realize this because there here are only a handful of places where good healers are needed in PvE (you can master most missions with only one human monk thanks to the extra NPC healers).

Last note: I think most serious readers people stopped reading when they saw Light of Dwayna. If you have to use mass resurrection, then you probably suck as a healer.

Arya Nibelrund · Jun 30, 2006, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Just a consideration:

Quote:

This build is probibly better than a Monk, cause the monk runs out of energy so fast (Max energy for a regular monk 45-50) when this build can have 93-95 energy, it can have over 100 energy with a morale boost.

My pve monk: energy pool around 55. /age: 700 hours. Times I ran out of energy: 2-3 when I wasn't still very experienced.
My pvp monk: energy pool around 50 or 75 switching weapon sets (sorry i don't remember the exact figures). Energy problems: more than in pve for sure, but I managed to win a gvg and still heal even when my energy level was 0 thanks to arcane languor and some other nasty skills.
Seriously, e/mo are good only as utility toons, with heal-party/heal other and draw conditions-extinguish.
No way they can pair up with a half decent monk. Try some pvp switching a booner with an e/mo and then tell me how it went. PvE is a joke for monks.

Prince Zyphr · Jun 30, 2006, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

if the Divine Favor is +4 or +5 per Attribuite points, then yes this build would be "very" foolish

Divine Favor is roughly +3 healing per attribute point.

Quote:

This build is probibly better than a Monk, cause the monk runs out of energy so fast (Max energy for a regular monk 45-50) when this build can have 93-95 energy, it can have over 100 energy with a morale boost. Thats why this is better than any "regular" monk

This is where it made me twitch a bit. Any monk that runs a healing build without a form of energy management should nto be monking (except eariler stages in the game). A monk that runs a basic Word of Healing + Spam Heals + Channeling can easily out do the E/Mo. I'm not a fan of full blown healer E/Mos, but A E/Mo that uses some air/earth/fire/water skills + heal party and some other skills is fantastic. Heal party spammage is great even when it heals for very little. But saying that since Ele's have energy storage makes them better than a regular monk is complete false.

Quote:

My first character was a monk, not a good start off, and I've always seen me lacking energy even with a green weapon. Not all of the time, just when party is taking lots of damage, and we lose cause my energy goes to 45 to 5 fast

This is completely your fault. A monk that intends to heal in PvE or PvP should not lose energy at an alarming rate. Ways to keep your energy mainted:
1. Obviously Energy management. I highly recommend a Mes secondary. Using skills like Inspired Hex, Channeling , Mantra of Recall + Contemplation of Purity, Revaled Hex, Energy Drain , Energy TAp.
2.Timing. Create an imaginary line going down each member of the party's hp. Creating a imaginary mark in which you trigger your heals. I organize my timing on class. Mesmers - Necros - Eles - Monks -Rits have the earilest trigger. Wars have the lastest and Rangers and Assassins are early but not early than the spellcasters.
3. Focus Swapping. Use a good green staff then when low on energy switch to a Rod/Focus or Sword + 5 energy/Focus set to gain more energy when your low - this will help you gain between 1-3 spells worth of energy.
Basing that Ele's are better healers because of energy storage because you could not create a energy managed healing build is biased.

EDIT: Fixed quotes.

Aug · Jun 30, 2006, 07:58 PM // 19:58

While the OPs build has some skills of questionable value in his build, I don't think it's accurate to say a Monk will always outheal an E/Mo. In an 8 man party with damage being spread around to 3+ players, Heal Party with Energy Storage will outstrip a monks healing output by miles.

I think Heal Party, Healing Breeze, and Heal Other are great skills. Mend Condition is also a nice skill to rid conditions, even with low Prot Prayers. And Ether Prodigy is a goldmine, no doubt about that. However, for your other three skills, I'd suggest investing in Earth Magic and picking up Ward Against Melee and/or Ward Against Elements. Also a little bit of damage (and mitigation afterwards) wouldn't hurt, in the form of Eruption. And Light of Dwayna is an awful rez... definitely go with Rebirth.

I'd suggest 10 E Storage, 10 Earth Magic, 11 Healing Prayers, and 1 Prot Prayers. Take whatever runes you can find/afford.

comonnow · Jul 01, 2006, 01:56 AM // 01:56

I have a few comments about this build too, even tho most everythng has been said.

I monk (boon prot) for a top 200 GvG guild, and I can honestly say this is and utterly ridiculous substitute for a monk. Ur Heal Other costs 10 energy and heals for about 100-130 health im assuming... with boon+RoF u have about 70 from divine boon, about 60-65 from RoF and 30-40 from Diving Favor.. which adds up to about 160 hit points for 7 energy.

Ether Prodigy = EXUASTION + Damage. Damage=more heals more heals=more energy.

E/Mo healer in PvP=ROFLMAO. U probably dont get targeted becuase people see what u r and start laughing and realize after about 1 minute (if tha) of attacking u will be completely worthless, and since u dont have any attacks (or blinds or snares or anythng else eles are MADE for) all u can do now is run around and get killed... then what are u gonna do? case breeze? shatter enchant ftw. Cast Heal Area?? Thx for healing my war, Cast Ether Prodigy for some Heal Party Action?? Shatter Enchant ftw once again.

No Divine Favor=No Sig of Devotion

Now I must request that u send me $50 because i just pissed my pants laughing at u so hard, and I would like to replace them.

Go Home nub. GG

comonnow · Jul 01, 2006, 02:02 AM // 02:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogDevourer

Last note: I think most serious readers people stopped reading when they saw Light of Dwayna. If you have to use mass resurrection, then you probably suck as a healer.

Oh Yeah, PWNT

BrotherGilburt · Jul 01, 2006, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Why is this on the monk forums?

I wouldn't call this better than a monk at all. I monk that echo's Divine spirit can have just as much energy. Or have a necro with a battery skill help out the monk.

Brother Gilburt

TheGuildWarsPenguin · Jul 01, 2006, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by comonnow

I have a few comments about this build too, even tho most everythng has been said.

I monk (boon prot) for a top 200 GvG guild, and I can honestly say this is and utterly ridiculous substitute for a monk. Ur Heal Other costs 10 energy and heals for about 100-130 health im assuming... with boon+RoF u have about 70 from divine boon, about 60-65 from RoF and 30-40 from Diving Favor.. which adds up to about 160 hit points for 7 energy.

Ether Prodigy = EXUASTION + Damage. Damage=more heals more heals=more energy.

E/Mo healer in PvP=ROFLMAO. U probably dont get targeted becuase people see what u r and start laughing and realize after about 1 minute (if tha) of attacking u will be completely worthless, and since u dont have any attacks (or blinds or snares or anythng else eles are MADE for) all u can do now is run around and get killed... then what are u gonna do? case breeze? shatter enchant ftw. Cast Heal Area?? Thx for healing my war, Cast Ether Prodigy for some Heal Party Action?? Shatter Enchant ftw once again.

No Divine Favor=No Sig of Devotion

Now I must request that u send me $50 because i just pissed my pants laughing at u so hard, and I would like to replace them.

Go Home nub. GG

Kinda harsh, but you have a point there. E/Mo's shouldn't replace monks in PvP.

phasola · Jul 01, 2006, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGuildWarsPenguin

Kinda harsh, but you have a point there. E/Mo's shouldn't replace monks in PvP.

you are right, W/Mo's should

Celab · Jul 01, 2006, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by phasola

you are right, W/Mo's should

with their mending.

Bloodied Blade · Jul 01, 2006, 08:02 PM // 20:02

^^
Scarily enough, I actually saw a whammo try to monk in pvp...and he did so rather welll...twice. After that his health was too low to save anyone. He basically went Endure Pain + Defy Pain + Infuse Health.

Seriously though, an E/Mo spamming Heal Party is not going to keep a group alive as a substitute for a monk. You've probably had like 2 monks in your group and are just no longer contributing damage to the group.

If you want to defend your team and not be a monk, play a Ritualist with Shelter and other spirits.

BrotherGilburt · Jul 02, 2006, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloodied Blade

^^
Scarily enough, I actually saw a whammo try to monk in pvp...and he did so rather welll...twice. After that his health was too low to save anyone. He basically went Endure Pain + Defy Pain + Infuse Health.

Seriously though, an E/Mo spamming Heal Party is not going to keep a group alive as a substitute for a monk. You've probably had like 2 monks in your group and are just no longer contributing damage to the group.

If you want to defend your team and not be a monk, play a Ritualist with Shelter and other spirits.

lol, that is scary. Theres really no point in useuing infuse health in PvP. also healing 300 points or more isn't needed.

Also with everything else you said, you are exactly right.

Brother Gilburt

Prince Zyphr · Jul 02, 2006, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrotherGilburt

lol, that is scary. Theres really no point in useuing infuse health in PvP. also healing 300 points or more isn't needed.

Also with everything else you said, you are exactly right.

Brother Gilburt

That's a sin. Infuse Health + PvP = FTW. Ever heard of the SB/Infuser? A monk who spams infuse health as an easy spike heal and Spellbreaker for cap stages in HA. Saying infuse health is pointless in PvP is extremely wrongzor.

Age · Jul 02, 2006, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prince Zyphr

Divine Favor is roughly +3 healing per attribute point.

This is where it made me twitch a bit. Any monk that runs a healing build without a form of energy management should nto be monking (except eariler stages in the game). A monk that runs a basic Word of Healing + Spam Heals + Channeling can easily out do the E/Mo. I'm not a fan of full blown healer E/Mos, but A E/Mo that uses some air/earth/fire/water skills + heal party and some other skills is fantastic. Heal party spammage is great even when it heals for very little. But saying that since Ele's have energy storage makes them better than a regular monk is complete false.

This is completely your fault. A monk that intends to heal in PvE or PvP should not lose energy at an alarming rate. Ways to keep your energy mainted:
1. Obviously Energy management. I highly recommend a Mes secondary. Using skills like Inspired Hex, Channeling , Mantra of Recall + Contemplation of Purity, Revaled Hex, Energy Drain , Energy TAp.
2.Timing. Create an imaginary line going down each member of the party's hp. Creating a imaginary mark in which you trigger your heals. I organize my timing on class. Mesmers - Necros - Eles - Monks -Rits have the earilest trigger. Wars have the lastest and Rangers and Assassins are early but not early than the spellcasters.
3. Focus Swapping. Use a good green staff then when low on energy switch to a Rod/Focus or Sword + 5 energy/Focus set to gain more energy when your low - this will help you gain between 1-3 spells worth of energy.
Basing that Ele's are better healers because of energy storage because you could not create a energy managed healing build is biased.

EDIT: Fixed quotes.

I don't have much of a problem with energy management even as a Mo/W most of the time I swap focus icon or even use a shield and yes my enrgy is at 30 but it recharges faster that it sits at 60.I can use shield stance then and regian some enrgy and yes I can use bonetti's in a close quarters combat.The best build for infuse would be Mo/W or /R with balance stance or lighting reflexes.This includes both PvE and PvP.

B Ephekt · Jul 02, 2006, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrotherGilburt

lol, that is scary. Theres really no point in useuing infuse health in PvP. also healing 300 points or more isn't needed.

Also with everything else you said, you are exactly right.

Brother Gilburt

Infuse is only really useful against spike teams, but since there are so many in HA and GvG it's pretty much a requirement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I don't have much of a problem with energy management even as a Mo/W most of the time I swap focus icon or even use a shield and yes my enrgy is at 30 but it recharges faster that it sits at 60.I can use shield stance then and regian some enrgy and yes I can use bonetti's in a close quarters combat.The best build for infuse would be Mo/W or /R with balance stance or lighting reflexes.This includes both PvE and PvP.

Both Ranger and Warrior are pretty crappy choices for an infuser since they have a high energy requirement. Each infuse essentially costs 15 energy if you figure in Infuse + Healing Touch or Orison. If you're facing a team that's spiking under QZ, you will become useless very quickly without some form of energy management. This is why most people stick with Channeling for HA and MoR/Energy Drain for GvG.

Age · Jul 02, 2006, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by B Ephekt

Infuse is only really useful against spike teams, but since there are so many in HA and GvG it's pretty much a requirement. Both Ranger and Warrior are pretty crappy choices for an infuser since they have a high energy requirement. Each infuse essentially costs 15 energy if you figure in Infuse + Healing Touch or Orison. If you're facing a team that's spiking under QZ, you will become useless very quickly without some form of energy management. This is why most people stick with Channeling for HA and MoR/Energy Drain for GvG.

I got this build from a good GvG person and he recommends it as /W can use Balance Stance what happens when a Warrior comes up after you infuse someone you will be dead with half of your like.Mo/Mes are squishy (sp) but sure they make good boonprotects but not infusers.Think of what Eviscrete with Frenzy will do to you or even a good hammer Warrior with a good knock down will do.It doesnt take thay much energy to infuse.

B Ephekt · Jul 02, 2006, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

what happens when a Warrior comes up after you infuse someone you will be dead with half of your like.

I believe I explained that already. You use Healing Touch after infusing, or have the Word monk heal you. I prefer to use Touch to be somewhat self sufficient though.

Quote:

Mo/Mes are squishy (sp) but sure they make good boonprotects but not infusers.

I guess that's why Mo/Me is much more common in Gvg and tombs than Mo/W or Mo/R.

Quote:

Think of what Eviscrete with Frenzy will do to you or even a good hammer Warrior with a good knock down will do.

Think of what a Guardian will do when your prot monk/booner realizes you're about to be KDed, or just got KDed.

Quote:

It doesnt take thay much energy to infuse.

LIke I said previously, if you're fighting a spike team that has Quickening Zephyr down for most of the match you will have energy problems without some form of energy management. Under QZ Infuse costs 13 energy, and Touch costs 7 energy; that's 19 energy for a complete Infuse cycle. An infuser that can't infuse is useless, and might as well be dead so I don't really see your point.

Age · Jul 02, 2006, 09:12 PM // 21:12

This is the build I am talking about and it given to me by a well knowsn PvP guild Officer.
Typically, this will be an Infuser that uses Balanced Stance to ensure they can't be knocked down during a spike. For instance:

10+1 Divine Favor
11+1+3 Healing Prayers
10 Tactics

Word of Healing [E]
Infuse Health
Orison of Healing
Healing Touch
Dwayna's Kiss or Heal Other
Balanced Stance
Bonetti's Defense
Holy Veil.

I would try if I were you to go outside of Camp Rankor North and infuse someone with the Stonssummit Herders around stomping.

B Ephekt · Jul 02, 2006, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Infusers are anti-spike. If I see a shock/hammer war coming for me while fighting a spike team, I will kite before they reach me. If I do get KDed, I will get protted to mitigate the damage I take while I'm down. If KDs become a problem the warder will drop a stability, gg. AND, since I'm not wasting my secondary on stances, I can still do my job while keeping my energy up. There is no way your build would be able to infuse blood/FoC/whatever spike when they're spiking every 3-4 seconds under QZ. You would run out of energy or have to rely on a BiP necro.

Brother Mhenlo · Jul 02, 2006, 10:00 PM // 22:00

if this is the best healing monk (which i know it is not, divine favor is very good) then there should be no need for light of dwayna lol.