Curse

S_Serpent · Jan 05, 2007, 11:04 AM // 11:04

This is my final post in this thread, because off the bs about SF being overpowered.

Only two viable solutions exist:

1* Nerf SF but buff every single other fire skill so the FIRE line is decent enough for pvp (personnally this is my favorite off the two - makes more builds available to run instead of single minded builds with no alternative for it)
2* Don't' nerf SF and keep it as the only viable skill in the FIRE line, like it is atm for pvp

I sincerely hope A.net will see they can't put the fire ele back under the rock off oblivion it was before Nightfall.

Dark Interception · Jan 05, 2007, 11:46 AM // 11:46

I really dont see the point in nerfing it anymore .. i hardly ever run into sf teams anymore, well allot less then in the beginning and i never lose to it anymore i think the scream for nerf was to soon and now people know what to do against it its not really a threat anymore, well at least not to me.

DvM · Jan 05, 2007, 12:08 PM // 12:08

They shouldent nerf SF imo, they should buff ''Kiting'' and ''Positioning (E)''

random.name · Jan 05, 2007, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Or maybe buff other Fire skills to that not everyone runs SF. Variety would be nice.

Xpl0iter · Jan 06, 2007, 02:47 AM // 02:47

issue is, according to ANET, searing flames IS going to be adjusted in mid january. What's done is done.
Not sure if they will fix any thing in fire line.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Jan 06, 2007, 05:04 AM // 05:04

Seeing as they're revamping GvG and they're looking into HA later in January, I'm guessing we're going to see HUGE skill balances....

Solus_the_Deadly · Jan 06, 2007, 07:32 AM // 07:32

Why make a good fire skill useful, then useless again. I reckon its fine how it is.

random.name · Jan 06, 2007, 11:55 AM // 11:55

Fire isnt fine as it is. On the one hand we have SF. Everyone is screaming that it is overpowered. Not because it is really overpowered against other classes, but because its overpowered compared to other fire ele skills. We are all so used to subpar spells, that when something powerfull comes along we automatically assume it has to be overpowered. I mean, god forbid that an ele does more damage than another class.

Tachyon · Jan 06, 2007, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Let me guess, some PvPers moaned about SF and it get's nerfed (sorry meant to say balanced).

Xpl0iter · Jan 07, 2007, 03:17 AM // 03:17

You guessed it right.

jesh · Jan 07, 2007, 08:26 AM // 08:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

As for the c+space warrior thing, I dunno where you got that from, but I really don't care as it's not true.

10 damage a hit? All attack skills add armor ignoring damage, a lot of spammable, armor ignoring damage. The only way you'd be doing 10 damage to anything is with our good friend C+Space. A Galrath Slash or Executioner's Strike will always do at least 43/42 damage, regardless of armor level.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

I wouldnt call a character that spent 20 minutes doing next to nothing, only to use meteor shower and rodgort's invocation on NPCS (hmm pve application of fire, who would have thought?) a justification for a balanced skill set in both formats. Seriously, just look at the domination line for examples of direct nukes that are more effective at all targets, not just soft targets, that also happen to have useful bonus effects like enchantment removal or energy denial. You can also observe other fubar cross skill comparisons like [skill=Conjure Phantasm]Conjure Phantasm[/skill] against [skill=Immolate]Immolate[/skill] and tell me which one is more efficient.

QFT. If you read what Ensign wrote on the ele build he ran, his reason for taking MS was that there was nothing else better to put there, and he already had the glyph for a res.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Only profession that comes to mind that could be considered less useful overal would be the mesmer in pve. Then again, mesmers are the strongest single target shutdown making bosses easy even with amplified stats.

Mesmers have Spiritual Pain in PvE now, remember?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xpl0iter

issue is, according to ANET, searing flames IS going to be adjusted in mid january. What's done is done.
Not sure if they will fix any thing in fire line.

All Gaile said was that it will be taken care of. We can still be optimistic and hope she means that all other skills we be buffed so awesomely good that SF won't be the only option anymore.

Honestly I don't think this skill needs a nerf at all. Mantra of Recovery Diversion spammers ftw. Or even better - don't bunch up like a flock of geese. /omg
I can't believe there are even threads that discuss why this skill should be nerfed. Like I've stated before, if this skill is indeed nerfed, we'd better see every single other offensive elementalist skill buffed.

Phades · Jan 07, 2007, 09:51 AM // 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

Mesmers have Spiritual Pain in PvE now, remember?

Havent seen too many rit spirit nests in pve. Actually, i dont think ive ever seen npcs do that outside of HvH. Recharge is a little slow for a spike group vs npcs, but it could work.

jesh · Jan 07, 2007, 10:00 AM // 10:00

Spirits like Favorable Winds/Infuriating Heat also count. I think it was LightningHell that used a build with Arcane Echo, Spiritual Pain, Mistrust and Assassin's Promise to spam the crap out of it. It doesn't matter to much if there's a spirit at that rate.

Phades · Jan 07, 2007, 10:13 AM // 10:13

The favorable winds helps kill stuff, if it doesnt scatter, but the infuriating heat isnt a high enough level to really make it useful.

Milky Goodness · Jan 12, 2007, 03:02 AM // 03:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

I cannot seriously belive you just said that. You obviously have never PvPed. The objective is not always to kill something, so maybe a bunch of SF eles isn't the greatest idea? And some people don't like the idea of using overpowered skills, we have this thing called ethics. Sure, it's available to everyone, but it isn't always best according to situation, and some people don't like running around like ostriches with their heads in the sand. Also, if something is so overpowered everyone is using it, it clearly outstrips the other skills. This means that to make those skills worth something again, the overpowered skill needs to be nerfed or the underpowered ones need to be buffed. 99.9% of the time, nerfing is the way to go.

Ethics my butt. We're playing a game centered around stealing, dominating and killing. Where you not only hunt down people who run for their digi-lives but take their home(base). Searing Flames is only over powered if the team is unprepared for it. But that is the same for most other skills. Not trying to single you out, but don’t really agree that it’s over powered. What makes searing flames fun, is like what makes playing necro fun, it's efficient and time saving. I for one don't like hitting like a chump, and scuffling like a pack rat tryign to do something.

Heaven forbid a skill be actually useful. Nerfing in general is bad in my opinion. It's a staple crop for breeding mediocrity. Don't ever let something be good or useful or they’ll make sure that they'll nerf it and make you so disgusted that you'll stop. I agree with counters. Don't nerf searing flames, its a beautiful skill, if anything make more skills to kill eles. They keep making everyone go to a knife fight with plastic knives. Give you a bazooka then put a freaking nerfball rocket. YAAAAAAY! Don’t have to only buff defense, but hell put some anti spells in there for ele specific. Maybe something like reversing condition skills. So the ele will burn like they just had the clap or something. And yes.... signet of humility can make them very... if not extremely humble... *cough* speed degen and maelstrom too... that's how I bloody capped the thing.

Yes in pve it is usually a great skill to use. But it isn’t invincible, and in many instances I switch from it. It gave me a shot from using meteor shower all the bloody time. Not to mention on a$$ out missions like arborstone, I could get off a cast.

Finally as far as locking out other skills, well not all things are equal. Some skills suck. Unnatural signet in the before times rings a bell. Buffing the crappy skills sounds better. pvp can be fast and furious, or we can sit around shooting at each other with nerf dart guns. I might be speaking out of me bum, but the s**t I say has some merit. Anet has a pretty decent game here. Just don’t go about shooting your selves in the foot. Granted, can’t keep everyone happy. Honestly, I do see things that need nerfs at times, but this isn't one of them. It's not a super ownage skill, and other ele skills do still carry value. Just give something to punish those spammers out there(mesmers), and things that null burning, or if anything increase the recharge time to 3 or 4, but even then that would suck badly. Hopefully they are just upping the stuff on other fire skills. I’m for balancing skills but this seems a little unnecessary. This reminds me a lot of people first crying about touch rangers.

Thom Bangalter · Jan 12, 2007, 08:39 AM // 08:39

rock/paper/scissors in a game like this is crappy game design, Milky, and that's basically what you're suggesting is 'ok' for competitive PvP. It's not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesh

All Gaile said was that it will be taken care of. We can still be optimistic and hope she means that all other skills we be buffed so awesomely good that SF won't be the only option anymore.

.

Yes, it's being balanced--According to Izzy, the only person that talks to the community that I have respect for. How he'll change the rest of fire I'm unsure, but I doubt he'll make SF unplayable, and eles will continue to fill the niche of midline support caster (or 1/2 a monk).

Sorry if this news crushes the hopes of pve carebears.

pingu666 · Jan 12, 2007, 08:59 AM // 08:59

eles need a big spike elite, or damage over time, like a elite meteor shower.

SF is like barrage but mildly less mindless

Xpl0iter · Jan 12, 2007, 09:17 AM // 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

Yes, it's being balanced--According to Izzy, the only person that talks to the community that I have respect for. How he'll change the rest of fire I'm unsure, but I doubt he'll make SF unplayable, and eles will continue to fill the niche of midline support caster (or 1/2 a monk).

Welcome back Heal party, B-Flash eles.
Idiots who cried at first, and steped back later on just to take the blame off your head for getting it nerfed, Cheers to you.
We know quite well what "Balancing" In Anet is meant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

Sorry if this news crushes the hopes of pve carebears.

Could you get any more ignorant than that Thom? I don't think so. An elitist PVPer attitude, like always. And don't ask me why i said that either, you can scroll above and read.

Milky Goodness · Jan 12, 2007, 02:17 PM // 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

rock/paper/scissors in a game like this is crappy game design, Milky, and that's basically what you're suggesting is 'ok' for competitive PvP. It's not.

.

Yes, it's being balanced--According to Izzy, the only person that talks to the community that I have respect for. How he'll change the rest of fire I'm unsure, but I doubt he'll make SF unplayable, and eles will continue to fill the niche of midline support caster (or 1/2 a monk).

Sorry if this news crushes the hopes of pve carebears.

True, it was not said that they will nerf it, but would like to show that it would be greatly displeasing if they did.

err... actually a lot of the skills do exactly that, rock paper scissors. The good thing is that not one skill can dominate all, and you have many choices to pick from to varey your counters and attacks. maybe you misunderstood what i was implying. basically that is why they give the 8 skill use thing anyway am i right. so that a person must think of the situation that they will face and how to counter it.
Avatar of Melandru, Fridged Armor > Searing Flames, In which case the ele would do NO damage with sf. just a quick example of the number of skills that already kick sf's butt. Maelstrom, Daze, choking gas and Dwarven Battle Stance come to mind as well. All of which are attacks/conditions so the idea of turtling is unrealistic.

Honestly searing flames is not dangeorus enough to even make one special build to go against it. It is just a simple ele spell like any other, and can and was already countered ages ago. what i was suggesting was maybe a few (less than hand full of skills) that attack burning or spamming which to my knowledge they already do.

As i said at times nerfing is a need. i hate to say this but someone told me during the preview that dervishes could hit ALL adjacent targets, had darn near infinite energy and hp with different skills, including COP, and what not. Well ja... as bad as it sounds that was a good nerf. It would have made darn near every other melee profession unusuable.

Maybe make different versions for pvp and pve. but even in pvp most sf eles seem childish at best. with a few who can put the pressure on people. Honestly searing flames was/is the 2nd and one of the only 3 spells i liked in the fire line. Rotgort invoction, Liquid Flame, and Searing flames. The rest take too long to cast and recharge, and usually can just be walked away from.
Its... really disgusting to cast meteor/shower and see creatures/people just straight out walk from under it before it hits, or fireball hit behind people. This way I can just light their butts on fire, and blammo. But i still thoroughly enjoy my other firebuilds, ice, air, and even earth. Of which many times searing flames is not even a reasonable skill to apply to it.

to nerf searing flames (or glowing gaze) in damage, recharge, recast time, would just make it another mundane fire spell, where you spend most of your time yawning, waiting and hoping that people dont just kill you before you finish casting. (i know i know, not all spells are like that.)

Thom Bangalter · Jan 12, 2007, 07:23 PM // 19:23

it'll probably just get hit on the damage end, because as so many people have mentioned, in competitive pvp, once you have 3+, the damage gets nuts and more than two prot monks and a hp and/or LoD spammer can deal with.

The only reason it isn't more popular is because eurospike was/is so popular, and 3 mesmers will rape them if they're good. However, that requires a team to carry 3 mesmers. If a skill is such a force that you are forced to bring hard counters for it then it becomes problematic because that limits variety in builds since you either run rock (searing flames) or paper (buncha diversion spammers, melandru's dervishes). It's the same problem for other skills such as blinding surge, avatar of grenth, and avatar of melandru. Since blinding surge is so powerful, you're forced to run avatar of melandru because he can't be blinded. Avatar of grenth, which is insanely powerful, is countered by blinding surge. It's why so many pvpers are crying about the game right now, because while technically there's balance in this rock/paper/scissors approach to gameplay, build choice is limited and that provides for boring gameplay. No one enjoys having Anet be so heavy-handed on what skills are used now that the competitive part of the game has matured to the point it's currently at.

While it certainly sucks that eles only have a few good skills for PvP and they're mostly in Air (read: gale, blinding flash) not touching a skill that is devastating up and down the ladder (particularly down the ladder where It can quickly dominate teams that aren't that good) The skill doesn't improve as you move up the ladder, and when something can be such a mindless, powerful skill that anyone can run and have success with, the skill becomes too powerful and thus is subjected to balance in order to improve the game from a pvp standpoint.

While I empathize with the pve players who really enjoy the skill and don't want to see it changed, I'm sure it will be left in a condition that won't make it unplayable, just less devastating against real teams.