Curse

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Jan 04, 2007, 05:12 PM // 17:12

@ enko: The reason why everyone is running SF at this point is because it outstrips other fire ele builds. Beforehand, people used fire eles (except hardly ever in 6v6 HA because it's hosed...). So yea, fire eles aren't seen that often in PvP atm other than searing flames for two reasons: searing flames wtfomgpwns all the other fire ele skills, and HA, their most common environment, took the big one from behind. If (hopefully, when) anet returns HA to 8v8, you will see a lot of fire eles (if past trends continue). I admit I kind of forgot that you wouldn't see them much in HA lately (a FEW people use them, but of course, SF) but no one really cares about HA any more so that is fine.

That was my point xploitor, you just don't run two SS or two MMs, but you sometimes do for eles. The unbalanced problem is in large part due to the burning duration, let me clarify. I have one SF ele in a PvE or PvP environment, take your pick. I am spamming SF all over the place like usual, but the other team actually has semi-adequate time to remove burning, it might wear off on certain people, etc. The problem with multiple SFs is the fact that the burning *should* almost never wear off or be removed. This allows multiple SF ele teams to basically use the skill as a large scale nuke, and not a conditional one as it was intended. You essentially have one ele that's like 50/50 burning and damage (random number) and the other eles are all almost 100% damage. IMO, it wasn't really meant that way.

Enko · Jan 04, 2007, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

@ enko: The reason why everyone is running SF at this point is because it outstrips other fire ele builds. Beforehand, people used fire eles (except hardly ever in 6v6 HA because it's hosed...). So yea, fire eles aren't seen that often in PvP atm other than searing flames for two reasons: searing flames wtfomgpwns all the other fire ele skills, and HA, their most common environment, took the big one from behind. If (hopefully, when) anet returns HA to 8v8, you will see a lot of fire eles (if past trends continue). I admit I kind of forgot that you wouldn't see them much in HA lately (a FEW people use them, but of course, SF) but no one really cares about HA any more so that is fine.

And you don't find it odd that currently fire eles have nothing else on par with SF? other professions have plenty of choices that they can take to be competitive in PvP and these isn't one single build that's the best. If they are going to nerf SF, they better be buffing up pretty much every other ele skill . ..

byteme! · Jan 04, 2007, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Half this entire thread is written by 2 individuals desperately seeking the last word and trying to prove each other wrong. I see similar arguments over and over and over again. Do you guys have anything better to do?

*waits 5 minutes*

Someone's gonna have a rebuttal for me soon enough. Tends to happen alot in these forums when people have nothing better to do then to nitpick through quotes looking for something to argue about.

BenO_Under · Jan 04, 2007, 11:23 PM // 23:23

From reading this entire thread, I'm pretty sure that nerfing Searing Flames will bring the end of the entire world as we know it.

Thom Bangalter · Jan 04, 2007, 11:31 PM // 23:31

So will nerfing it. It's really a win-win situation. For SATAN.

Priest Of Sin · Jan 04, 2007, 11:35 PM // 23:35

*Deep Voice*

Just you shut your mouth....

BenO_Under · Jan 04, 2007, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

So will nerfing it.

isnt that what i said?

ArianeB · Jan 05, 2007, 01:47 AM // 01:47

Not going to bother reading this entire thread. From playing a SF Ele who plays mostly solo PvE, I do not see this as being a so l33t it must be nerfed power. It is the equivalent of Barrage on my Ranger.

I guess the primary problem is that in PvP you have teams of SF Ele's all spamming it.

So why not "nerf" it this way:

Target foe and all nearby foes are struck with Searing Flames. Foes already on fire when this skill is cast are struck for 7...91 fire damage and are no longer on fire. Foes not already on fire begin Burning for 1...6 seconds.

For the solo SF Ele, this power would remain essentially the same, but it would reduce damage from group spams from:
1. set fire 2. HUGE AoE Damage 3. HUGE AoE Damage 4. HUGE AoE Damage
to
1. set fire 2. HUGE AoE Damage 3. set fire 4. HUGE AoE Damage

thoughts?

Xpl0iter · Jan 05, 2007, 04:06 AM // 04:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

*Snip*
That was my point xploitor, you just don't run two SS or two MMs, but you sometimes do for eles. The unbalanced problem is in large part due to the burning duration, let me clarify. I have one SF ele in a PvE or PvP environment, take your pick. I am spamming SF all over the place like usual, but the other team actually has semi-adequate time to remove burning, it might wear off on certain people, etc. The problem with multiple SFs is the fact that the burning *should* almost never wear off or be removed. This allows multiple SF ele teams to basically use the skill as a large scale nuke, and not a conditional one as it was intended. You essentially have one ele that's like 50/50 burning and damage (random number) and the other eles are all almost 100% damage. IMO, it wasn't really meant that way.

But you do run multiple FoC necros.
SS is not the end for Curses line. But aparently, SF is for the fire line until skills in fire are buffed properly.

Necros have viable elite options available for situations.
Eles, how ever, don't.

To Byteme!:
Very constructive Post. IMHO Had alot of INFO !!! /Sarcasm

To Arian:
Excellent Nerf Batting! Destroyed the Spiking Ability and made it a 30 energy skill which sets on fire, and does conditional dmg if foe is ON FIRE. You just destroyed single ele.

30 energy fireball with "Setting on fire ability" Bravo
You do realize this OPTION of urs forces me to use Glowing Gaze Before i can Spam Second SF..... right?

Francis Crawford · Jan 05, 2007, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArianeB

So why not "nerf" it this way:

Target foe and all nearby foes are struck with Searing Flames. Foes already on fire when this skill is cast are struck for 7...91 fire damage and are no longer on fire. Foes not already on fire begin Burning for 1...6 seconds.

Terrible idea. The enemies would only be burning half the time, and even so only half the SFs would hit for damage.

And it would COMPLETELY nerf multiple SFer builds. I'm enjoying my Three Nuketeers group in PvE very much right now, thank you.

Ulivious The Reaper · Jan 05, 2007, 04:27 AM // 04:27

how about "If target foe is attacking target foe and all nearby foes are set aflame for 1..5 seconds Foes already aflame are struck for 4...75 fire damage." or keep the skill as is and increase recharge

balancing is key(hell without it people would complain more than they do about things getting nerfed) and that seems like somthing Anet would do to the skill

Xpl0iter · Jan 05, 2007, 04:28 AM // 04:28

Reaper, you nerfed the skill into oblivion. Could u make it any more conditional with that creativity of urs :P ?

Ulivious The Reaper · Jan 05, 2007, 04:40 AM // 04:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xpl0iter

Reaper, you nerfed the skill into oblivion. Could u make it any more conditional with that creativity of urs :P ?

lol not really i tried my best but you know my creativity is like that of Anets when it comes to "nerfs" XD

cause you know they'd make it simple on themselves and do somthing like that eh

Pwny Ride · Jan 05, 2007, 05:53 AM // 05:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xpl0iter

But you do run multiple FoC necros.
SS is not the end for Curses line. But aparently, SF is for the fire line until skills in fire are buffed properly.

Necros have viable elite options available for situations.
Eles, how ever, don't.

To Byteme!:
Very constructive Post. IMHO Had alot of INFO !!! /Sarcasm

To Arian:
Excellent Nerf Batting! Destroyed the Spiking Ability and made it a 30 energy skill which sets on fire, and does conditional dmg if foe is ON FIRE. You just destroyed single ele.

30 energy fireball with "Setting on fire ability" Bravo
You do realize this OPTION of urs forces me to use Glowing Gaze Before i can Spam Second SF..... right?

How about you just say off people for a change ffs. At least Arian is TRYING, we dont see YOU coming up with anything spectacular.

Not every post is attacking you, give some people a chance to properly express their oppinions. If you havent got anything nice to say, dont say anything at all

Riotgear · Jan 05, 2007, 06:10 AM // 06:10

The problem with SF is that it gains efficiency as copies of it are added, with fewer casts being spent on reapplying burning.

While it would change the usage of it a bit, I think the best solution to SF would be to simply reduce the damage by 10-20% and make it reapply the burning condition regardless of whether it deals damage. Then it can still be run as a viable damage option, without the overkill, and without requiring 3 copies to hurt.

Xpl0iter · Jan 05, 2007, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pwny Ride

How about you just say off people for a change ffs. At least Arian is TRYING, we dont see YOU coming up with anything spectacular.

Not every post is attacking you, give some people a chance to properly express their oppinions. If you havent got anything nice to say, dont say anything at all

if only you coulkd read before blabbering against me, you would know that i have said multiple times to reduce SF dmg to 105 from, 119. But then, you never had time to read all my posts, had you ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

The problem with SF is that it gains efficiency as copies of it are added, with fewer casts being spent on reapplying burning.

While it would change the usage of it a bit, I think the best solution to SF would be to simply reduce the damage by 10-20% and make it reapply the burning condition regardless of whether it deals damage. Then it can still be run as a viable damage option, without the overkill, and without requiring 3 copies to hurt.

By the way
Excellent Solution Riotgear!

Pwny Ride · Jan 05, 2007, 06:23 AM // 06:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xpl0iter

if only you coulkd read before blabbering against me, you would know that i have said multiple times to reduce SF dmg to 105 from, 119. But then, you never had time to read all my posts, had you ?

By the way
Excellent Solution Riotgear!

You know mate, the truth is that i really dont care any of your posts, because frankly they dont matter to me.

My oppinion is based off of the original statement by the OP, so you have my apologies if you may have got the impression that i was targeting my oppinion at you.

Xpl0iter · Jan 05, 2007, 06:28 AM // 06:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pwny Ride

How about you just say off people for a change ffs. At least Arian is TRYING, we dont see YOU coming up with anything spectacular.

Not every post is attacking you, give some people a chance to properly express their oppinions. If you havent got anything nice to say, dont say anything at all

I answered Specifically to That.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pwny Ride

[b]You know mate, the truth is that i really dont care any of your posts, because frankly they dont matter to me. [b]

My oppinion is based off of the original statement by the OP, so you have my apologies if you may have got the impression that i was targeting my oppinion at you.

A sign of an ignorant person who thinks he can ignore every other opinion and give his opinions while thinking that they will be accepted.

If your opinion is specifically to that of the Op's after 150 posts, i suggest you PM him and convey.

Pwny Ride · Jan 05, 2007, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xpl0iter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx
When did I mention a spike? I simply meant overall team coordination, I honestly don't know where you guys got the idea about a spike.

There are two types of coordination.
One, Overall coordination where you hgave every one doing things according to a certain PLAN and Procedure.
Second: Spike Coordination where team spikes dmg in order to take a foe Out.
I was speaking of Spike Coordination, and i see where you are coming form.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx
xploitor, you keep referring to the 2 and a half hours as one battle, it wasn't. It was about 15 battles, and the fire ele worked beautifully. In HA, a lot more than 2% of the community ran it. When you get down to the balanced line of HA, at least 50% of them ran it, maybe more.

One simple thing as i said before, Running an ELE to DO the dmg, and Actualy Inflicting Dmg are two different things.
I am not sure where your comging up with that 50% number from. Definetly not what i see going on in PVP. Numerous people have said the same thing, So it is not like i am Making something up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx
And seriously, if your monks are even halfway decent, one second does not matter in PvE (I never used awaken the blood btw =P).

I am not sure what kinda pve your talking about. The PVE areas i play need both decent and proper monks. I don't do childish areas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

I said many other professions, I did not say the fire ele was more valuable in a PvE PUG environment than those others. If I have a choice between a w/mo, or a fire ele, even though the w/mo could potentially deal more damage, I'm taking the fire ele as it is a lot easier to run.

Warriors are Easy to Run, so are fire eles and a necro. I have every single of those classes.
I really do not think that "your Average PUG Fire ELE" is as GOOD as a proper Ele Either. I know because i have seen the difference between the ones (ELES with ANY attribute, not just fire) i trained in my guild and the PUGs that i have to take sometime cause of the lack of availability sometime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx
Also, if you were to run multiple MMs or SS, you need more coordination so you don't stack your hexes, steal bodies, etc. Multiple eles are a lot easier to use and require a lot less coordination in PvE than those.
Also, MMs are sort of area specific depending on whether or not you will have bodies.

Why are you running more than 1 MM or SS any way? After 2 years of my GW expereince, I have yet to see the usage of 2 MM or SS in a PVE team.
One is more than enough from each class.

A major example is your AVG Sorrows Furnace Group which WONT take an ELE but would Love to take an SS OR MM ( Which is a MUST )

Necros Atleast have a CHOICE to move between Blood, Death or Curses.
Can this be said for eles in PVE? I don't think so.
It is not as if PEOPLE CHOOSE to be Fire ele at some point. It is as if your FORCED to play fire ele.
Reason for why i said that? Because of 2 simple things.
First: When you raise a character, you are given fire skills in spefic.
Second: People are so used to seeing Fire eles that they don't even want to see you doing any other attribute, hence forcing you to go fire ele. ( i for one, can play any attribute )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pwny Ride
omg...serious?
IF they nerf SF, people are going to have to be..CREATIVE?! God forbid that!
OMGWTFBBQ - end of the world...

Shush up. You don't know what your talking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pwny Ride
seriously people...there are 3 other elements besides fire. It's not as if elementalists didnt have amazing damage capabilities BEFORE searing flames was introduced.

I will repeat, you don't know what your talking about.
If you need me to elaborate on it, ask for it. If you can't ask for it, go and read the description of those attribute lines before you say any thing to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pwny Ride
HOWEVER -

Every single elementliast for the past two weeks i have encountered in Alliance Battles and PvE gameplay, all are Searing Flamers. Me (being a Hydromancer) find that thousands of people using the same build as each other gives elementliasts a bad name (if thir name was bad enough already).

Because SF at this point IS THE ONLY SKILL THAT ALLOWS An ELE TO PUT FORTH PRESSURE! Read the last 4 pages and other threads before you comment on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pwny Ride
Hopefully with time this, like all 'trends' will fade. Until then, suck it up,because moaning over ONE SKILL isnt helping anybody, its just adding to the problem.

You don't know what your talking about. Quit it.

When i will reply to you, you will know exactly where you stand at this point in terms of knowledge and situation awareness. But then, that is IF i will reply you.

To GImme:

No, its not the burning duration, its the Dmg Reduction that is needed.
With your suggestion, your hurting one SF ele more than 2+ Sf eles.
Stating that, it is hurting PVE more than it hurts PVP since you will rarely encounter a team with 1 SF ele. PVE on the other hand, One SF Ele is fine at this point in basic areas.

Darkest Elemantal

I was talking about that post ^

Xpl0iter · Jan 05, 2007, 06:42 AM // 06:42

let me know when u properly quote it, not going to waste time on readin that crap that u posted above.

Edit: Actualy i am going to simply ignore your posts now. Your way off the topic.