Curse

Vandal2k6 · Feb 07, 2007, 09:37 AM // 09:37

I've started an MM in NightFall and although I'm doing OK (I'm level 15 atm) I just wondered if I'm doing it properly. When it's kicking off, I just stream new minions out, regardless of whether I need to. I have soul reaping pretty high, so I've more than enough energy to do this, but I feel it's a waste of energy.

So what I want to know is, as an MM should I just spam minions or try to keep an eye on the current health of my flock? This is easier said than done in the heat of battle, which is why I've not been doing so atm. Am I doing OK the way I am (I can keep 8 up 95% of the time atm) or should I manage it a bit more.

Ta very glad.

Naliah Alexis · Feb 07, 2007, 09:52 AM // 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vandal2k6

I've started an MM in NightFall and although I'm doing OK (I'm level 15 atm) I just wondered if I'm doing it properly. When it's kicking off, I just stream new minions out, regardless of whether I need to. I have soul reaping pretty high, so I've more than enough energy to do this, but I feel it's a waste of energy.

So what I want to know is, as an MM should I just spam minions or try to keep an eye on the current health of my flock? This is easier said than done in the heat of battle, which is why I've not been doing so atm. Am I doing OK the way I am (I can keep 8 up 95% of the time atm) or should I manage it a bit more.

Ta very glad.

There really isnt a right or wrong answer in playing a MM. It's all up to personal preference. If you feel comfortable doing it the way you are now stick to it. I myself have an MM with Bone Horror, Fiend and Golem [E], if there are fresh bodies available I usually spam my animate spells cause like you, I have a high soul reaping and always have enough energy to do so. Unless of course there's two MM's or another character that uses corpse exploitation then I usually tone down the spam so I can let them share the bodies.

If you can keep up 8 minions 95% of the time, then you're doing a very good job. Keep up the good work!

zwei2stein · Feb 07, 2007, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Keep raining new minions.

Fresh minions have minimal health degen, max health and no conditions/hexes on them so they are easier to maintain in battle, if they replace old minion you get part of energy back from soul reaping from old minion dying.

Game usually replaces weakest (least health and/or most degen) minion, so you usualy get maximum profit from it.

So, simply:
Raising new bone fiend with max minions is equal to:
* Lowering degen of one minion to -1.
* Healing it to max health.
* Removign all condtiond from it.
* Removing all hexes from it.
* Teleporting it closer to battefiled.
* Clearing any aggro on it.
* Having effective discount on that spell worth of your soulreaping investment.

Pretty neat, eh?

Cebe · Feb 07, 2007, 10:52 AM // 10:52

The only thing you would have to take into account is sometimes there are not always enough bodies to make new minions all the time...and sometimes it will be necessary to keep them alive a little longer than their normal lifespan in order to keep them with you... I'm thinking of a mission like Dasha Vestibule...a bit of an extreme example maybe, but the only things which leave exploitable corpses there are the Roaring Ethers...and there aren't many of them, so it may be a good idea to try to keep your minions alive as much as possible instead of relying on there being enough bodies to replace them with then they die. If you can master both ways of playing an MM you will be more flexible when it comes to future missions.

zwei2stein · Feb 07, 2007, 11:39 AM // 11:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

...so it may be a good idea to try to keep your minions alive as much as possible instead of relying on there being enough bodies to replace them with then they die. ...

It is good idea to spam blood of master even if you are in copse rich area too...

you want to be able to keep your army in good strength duing whole fight and you want to keep numbers up when you move between encounters.

---

If you are fighting in corpse free area like mentioned mission, your best bet is NOT to bring MM build ...

Vandal2k6 · Feb 07, 2007, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Cheers for the answers

I do spam BoTM all the time too, but it's a pain with the -HP hit. I've just been looking on GuildWiki for an alternative to keeping the minions alive. Is there one that doesn't have such a big side-effect as BoTM?

Quote:

If you are fighting in corpse free area like mentioned mission, your best bet is NOT to bring MM build ...

I see a lot of order necros in places like FoW etc. What are these, and are they any use in PVE battles?

silara_jorinset · Feb 07, 2007, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Order necros are necros that use the 'order' spells (e.g. order of pain, order of the vampire etc) to provide partywide support as the order spells usually give bonuses to the entire party. Specialising in blood magic, they often also carry blood ritual and/or blood is power to give energy support to important casters (e.g. monks) as well other offensive skills. Definetely viable in other pve areas, especially high end missions and such to give party support.

Lilith St Cyr · Feb 07, 2007, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Healing circle in addition to blood of the master. Keeps you health up nicely, & once minions stop attacking they gather around you.

xundeadx · Feb 07, 2007, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Always spam minions,BotM and Verata's sacrifice!when it recharge!You have
plenty of energy when minions die.With soul reaping 8+1 or 9+1.I use 8+1 and
i never ran out of energy.

Good job!

tijo · Feb 07, 2007, 04:51 PM // 16:51

If you have the room on your skill bar, you might want to bring taste of death but remember never to use it unless theres an emergency(you just finished spaming BotM, your health is low, aggro breaks and enemies start attacking you, mostly happnes when you're with a small farming group). Since ToD has a very low casting time its useful to save you from death. Killing one minion is something you normally dont do, but killing 1 is better than having 10 start attacking your party. If you are playing with ppl u know you probably wont need it but saved my MM a couple of times while i was farming sf with strangers.

I also agree with the fact that you should make new minions as soon as you can, its a lot easier than trying to maintain the old ones alive.

Dutch Masterr · Feb 07, 2007, 05:28 PM // 17:28

like some others said, there is no "correct" way to run a mm. but there are some general rules/tips to follow.....

first of all, it helps ALOT to start being a mm only after you have reached level 20...not saying it cant be done though...obviously.

if you are using blood of the master (which you ALWAYS should), have a way to heal yourself and dont rely on the monk. MMs should never need a monks help unless you are in trouble because you have not raised your minions yet. if you have minions up, there is no reason you should die (in pve, pvp is different). dark bond negates 75% of damage and directs it to closest minion so that helps alot. make new minions whenever you can, and if at 10 minions, raising another will kill the one with the least health.

use max level minions...including superior death rune and death face scar!

for elites there are generally three choices--flesh golem, aura of the lich and jagged bones. flesh golem does high damage and gives you a constant corpse. aura of the lich lets you take half damage and you sac less health with blood of the master. jagged bones gives you a constant supply of minions.....all are good.

Coloneh · Feb 08, 2007, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vandal2k6

I've started an MM

theres your problem. try learning a few builds instead of running a build that can at times be completely useless. necros are very versatile. MMing takes almost no skill and can be done with your eyes shut, go try out SS and then ask some questions.

not to sound mean.

Griff Mon · Feb 08, 2007, 07:09 AM // 07:09

Max out your death magic and get a Superior Death Magic Rune for your head piece. A level 26 Flesh Golem is something to be feared in any fight. BOTM is good and if you are running a monk secondary, I keep healing breeze up to compensate for the spamming of BOTM. For solo farming I bring along some good Death degen and attack like Rotting Flesh and Deathly Swarm. With your Death Magic maxed out they are very powerful. I usually do not bring Verata's as it is not as powerful as it used to be. If you have a lot of bodies you can exploit then use Heal Area -on the downside it increases the degen of your minions and heals enemies in the immediate area, and on the upside it heals you as well. Use it only in an emergency.

Spellforge · Feb 08, 2007, 09:14 AM // 09:14

"Order of Undead" is another elite worth considering.
I usually bring vampiric horrors aswell. They don't make up the bulk of my minions but having 2 or 3 in a battle will help offset the health sacs of BoTM and OoU

strcpy · Feb 08, 2007, 09:43 AM // 09:43

You have already gotten the advice I would give, but I will re-iterate it as another voice.

New minions are nice and unless there is a reason not to I raise them as often as I can. I use BotM when I can according to my health and usually carry Verata's (though it isn't nearly as good as it used to be).

I would note that I never play in a two corpse exploitation party - I am purely a hench/hero player and can control what is brought quite well without feeling like I am screwing someone. Be careful there as you need to spread the corpses out between you and BotM can be BAD.

However, for my AI MM's I almost never bring BotM. I use Jagged Bones to keep the army up as they tend to keep a decent army up better - even with the recent nerf. Plus they can be bad about saccing them selfs to death. They replace ones they can not save quite well and no worry about them killing themselfs.

Tyrnne · Feb 08, 2007, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griff Mon

A level 26 Flesh Golem is something to be feared in any fight.

Very true, but the poster is starting out in Nightfall and you can only get the Flesh Golem skill in Factions. So if you have that chapter, starting your MM there is probably easiest although you won't get to capture the elite skill (at least not by direct route) until you get to Senji's Corner.

I started out my MM as a curses/blood necro. This gives you more flexibility until you get to level 20 and can make a decent MM. I'd also avoid the negative health runes until you're up near level 20 as the health hit will hurt you at low levels.

I guess the best curses/blood necro is the SS variety, but you usually have to progress to the Iron Mines mission in Prophecies to capture the Spiteful Spirit skill. The skill is only available in Prophecies as far as I know.

Since there is no longer a penalty for juggling your attribute allocation, you can try all sorts of different builds. Just make sure you use the save feature so you can switch builds back and forth easily.

tijo · Feb 08, 2007, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griff Mon

use Heal Area -on the downside it increases the degen of your minions and heals enemies in the immediate area, and on the upside it heals you as well. Use it only in an emergency.

True Heal Area heals enemies but it doesn't increase your minion's health degeneration more than usual the normal rate. I've seen no noticeable difference while i was using Heal Area and i was not and according to wiki :"Contrary to some rumors, healing a minion with a Healing Prayers skill does not increase its degeneration."

Dutch Masterr · Feb 08, 2007, 05:08 PM // 17:08

like someone else said, dont make a pve necro to only play as a mm. necros are generally needed in pve as SS nuker, SV necro, MM, BiP or support wells. it all depends what mission/area you are in. if you are in an area with no corpses (which there are many), you would go as SS or BiP. if you are in a very high-level area, SV might be a good choice. and of course where there will be plenty of corpses, either play offensivley as a MM or defensivley as a support/well necro.

obviously there are other elites and builds a necro is good for, but those i listed are the ones that are usually most nedded.

Pick Me · Feb 08, 2007, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch Masterr

like someone else said, dont make a pve necro to only play as a mm. necros are generally needed in pve as SS nuker, SV necro, MM, BiP or support wells. it all depends what mission/area you are in. if you are in an area with no corpses (which there are many), you would go as SS or BiP. if you are in a very high-level area, SV might be a good choice. and of course where there will be plenty of corpses, either play offensivley as a MM or defensivley as a support/well necro.

obviously there are other elites and builds a necro is good for, but those i listed are the ones that are usually most nedded.

SS is assuming he has Prophecies.
SV is assuming he has Factions.

Blood Is Power may be nice, but I don't know where in Elona it is. Besides, if you are in a group that really needs BiP, I'm not that far into NF so I don't know if you need it or not, you may be in trouble. I know from experience, that in the other campaigns BiPs are not necessary at all. If it is necessary in NF, that will be the first time for me to see it.

Good non-elite curses:
Mark of Pain
Parasitic bond
Suffering
Faintheartedness

Good non-elite death magic:
Animate Bone Fiend
Animate Bone Minion
Blood Of The Master
Death nova
Taste of death

Good non-elite blood magic:
Life siphon
Well of blood
Vampiric gaze

Others are good, like Death Pact, but unnecessary as a support caster.

Anyway, you asked about MMing...

Do not waste corpses. If you are lvl 15, and have high Soul Reaping, you then have low Death Magic. DM sets limits to the effectiveness of your minions and how many you can control. The limit is 2 + 1/2lvls in DM. So at lvl 0 you can control 2. At lvl 2, you can control 3, etc.

Spamming Animates is not good as it removes corpses and drains your energy. Not to mention people may have to wait for you to finish animating.

Heal your minions every so often during battle until you see a corpse. Animate 1 corpse, but DN your minions, so you can watch it explode when you create a new minion and your old one dies.

It is better to heal than just let them die. As said before, corpses may not be available and the more minions you have, the better the party will be.

Emik · Feb 08, 2007, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Blood is Power can be capped just outside Chantry of Secrets...
Forgot his name... A lieutenant or something (Kournan)
It's true that playing MM in corpseheavy areas is a breeze, so in that pov i'd suggest go with Coloneh and try out some other builds too.
There's loads of pressure Death Magic builds that combine well with Curses.
Discord Hexer for instance.
As to MM'ing itself. I always found that keeping an army alive was more impressive than having healthy ones but that was before the minionlimit and Verata's Sacrifice were nerfed (oh how i miss 70 minions trailing behind me)
More on topic. I'll agree with Pick Me here and say you need to rather up your Death Magic attribute to 16 so you at least have a good army with decent damage potential.